Wrestling Observer/Meltzer Ominbus Thread

[Cole Miner]

 

I had to stop listening to it because the constant "ya know?" drove me crazy. I swear he one time had a "sentence" that was "Ya know, I mean, ya know?" Once you notice it, you can't unhear it. Much like once you notice Bret Hart never closes his mouth when wrestling, you can't unsee it.

Damn you. Damn. You. And I JUST bought the Dungeon Collection. Fuck, man ... goddamn it, now it's like yawning is the SIXTH MOVE OF DOOM!

 

Don't worry you can eventually unsee it. It is like when you notice that your nose is actually visible to you at all times and your mind is just blocking it out. Annoying for a short time but it goes away.

[TimWresPowr]

Did Koff take responsibility for anything?  I read another interview from him where he tried to blame most of the problems on users' internet connections.  He refused to throw GFL under the bus (understandable to maintain professionalism) but seemed resigned to the fact that sometimes it will work & sometimes it won't.  If that's the mindset of management, they may as well give up on iPPV.

 

The saddest thing about ROH & really all US wrestling now is all companies are pretty much slotted where they are with no hopes of any movement no matter what they do.  ROH could double business all across the board & still be in the exact same spot they are in, although it would be easier to cover the bills I guess.  TNA, same thing.  WWE's business could be cut in half, same thing.

[jstout]

He did say that some users didn't have the bandwidth to be able to support the streaming iPPV, but that's something users should have sorted out before even ordering the PPV with one of those "if you can see this video..." tests. His "viewership" is probably technically savvy enough to have a firm handle on whether or not their Internet connection can support streaming.

 

He says they have no plans to try iPPVs again, and freely admit they don't have the bankroll for a regular PPV. Dave and Bryan kept pushing him on a "Clash of the Champions" thing on Sinclair, but it's impossible to do because Sinclair owns a bunch of stations and isn't a network - it can't bump network programming like NBC or CBS in prime time to put on its wrestling show. It can't even do it on Saturday night at midnight, for example, because Sinclair's NBC affiliates are obligated to show "Saturday NIght Live."

 

Koff said about 2,000 people tried to watch the Death Before Dishonor free iPPV. I just tried to Google around and find (without success) the typical audience for iPPV concerts like by hippie bands like Phish. Do they get more than 2,000 buys? If so, how do they do it with minimal grumbling? You know Google's stream of Bonnaroo's music draws more than 2,000 people. How does Google do it? Basically, what I'm trying to say is, could ROH solve this problem with iPPVs if they'd throw a litle more money at finding a better company or whatever to put it on? 

[manzk]

he asked us to send ideas to Dave and Bryan and they would forward them to Koff and he will definitely look into our suggestion to improve iPPV.

 

I

[Bustronaut]

Wait, Joe Koff, from Sinclair?  He's the head of sale & marketing development, of course he wouldn't know any technical details.

 

ETA: We could certainly run a "Clash" dealie on Saturday afternoons when there's literally nothing on and somehow we end up running Bewitched despite not running it before or since.

[Robert]

I'm now hazy on that conversation but wasn't his whole point that they had lost the crowd because it wasn't the match they wanted and Volador and La Sombra were trying to kill themselves to prove they belonged there? Having that opinion doesn't necessarily make him a hypocrite.

 

Dave had many points about the match - one of which was that the two guys were shortening their careers taking such big risks and it bothered him watching it. Seems weird to then a week later call an MMA match great (& talk about how much fun it was to watch) when two guys ended up in the hospital. Total hypocrisy.

 

Dave even went as far as to invent a Sombra knee injury as one of his talking points. "This guy is working on a bad knee and struggling to do all his moves." Sombra did suffer a knee injury a month before the match but was fine a week or two later. He said he was fine, people who work with him said he was fine and people who are around him daily say he's fine. Yet somehow from all the way in California Dave diagnosed him as having a bad knee which was effecting his performance.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I'm now hazy on that conversation but wasn't his whole point that they had lost the crowd because it wasn't the match they wanted and Volador and La Sombra were trying to kill themselves to prove they belonged there? Having that opinion doesn't necessarily make him a hypocrite.

Dave had many points about the match - one of which was that the two guys were shortening their careers taking such big risks and it bothered him watching it. Seems weird to then a week later call an MMA match great (& talk about how much fun it was to watch) when two guys ended up in the hospital. Total hypocrisy.

I agree with you, but Dave clearly has different criteria for watching wrestling than he does combat sports. In wrestling (in theory as Dave would say), people aren't suppose to get hurt. Whereas in combat sports, the main objective is to inflict enough punishment to hurt the opponent. Injuries and damage matters so much in the latter than it does the former in the entertainment factor unless you're strictly watching hardcore forms of wrestling. If no one suffers a concussion during a MMA or boxing event, then it's a shitty show no matter what. If no one suffers a concussion during a wrestling show, that's a really good thing because they're aren't suppose to.

[manzk]

Why does he like combat sports if he is bothered by punishment, tho?

 

And why is he so obsessed in applying wrestling logic to MMA?Meh, I like Dave and all, but really he is no expert in match analysis and he will just be bias towards the wrestlers he enjoys. Sometimes I feel that pretty much everybody around Dave puts over his understanding of matches  out of respect, but I think everybody knows deep inside that he is a mark with a great network of inside informers.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Why does he like combat sports if he is bothered by punishment, tho? And why is he so obsessed in applying wrestling logic to MMA?

That's what the mailbag is for.

[AlfredoE]

 

 

I'm now hazy on that conversation but wasn't his whole point that they had lost the crowd because it wasn't the match they wanted and Volador and La Sombra were trying to kill themselves to prove they belonged there? Having that opinion doesn't necessarily make him a hypocrite.

Dave had many points about the match - one of which was that the two guys were shortening their careers taking such big risks and it bothered him watching it. Seems weird to then a week later call an MMA match great (& talk about how much fun it was to watch) when two guys ended up in the hospital. Total hypocrisy.

I agree with you, but Dave clearly has different criteria for watching wrestling than he does combat sports. In wrestling (in theory as Dave would say), people aren't suppose to get hurt. Whereas in combat sports, the main objective is to inflict enough punishment to hurt the opponent. Injuries and damage matters so much in the latter than it does the former in the entertainment factor unless you're strictly watching hardcore forms of wrestling. If no one suffers a concussion during a MMA or boxing event, then it's a shitty show no matter what. If no one suffers a concussion during a wrestling show, that's a really good thing because they're aren't suppose to.

 

 

Actually, Dave is a big fan of the high spot type matches, which was what we were arguing about him suddenly worrying about guys getting hurt. He's been very high on matches that were similar to what Sombra and Volador Jr's match turned out.  You don't even have to discuss the MMA stuff when discussing his points about that match.  He flip-flopped.

 

But, ya' know, whatever...

[Elsalvajeloco]

I'm now hazy on that conversation but wasn't his whole point that they had lost the crowd because it wasn't the match they wanted and Volador and La Sombra were trying to kill themselves to prove they belonged there? Having that opinion doesn't necessarily make him a hypocrite.

Dave had many points about the match - one of which was that the two guys were shortening their careers taking such big risks and it bothered him watching it. Seems weird to then a week later call an MMA match great (& talk about how much fun it was to watch) when two guys ended up in the hospital. Total hypocrisy.

I agree with you, but Dave clearly has different criteria for watching wrestling than he does combat sports. In wrestling (in theory as Dave would say), people aren't suppose to get hurt. Whereas in combat sports, the main objective is to inflict enough punishment to hurt the opponent. Injuries and damage matters so much in the latter than it does the former in the entertainment factor unless you're strictly watching hardcore forms of wrestling. If no one suffers a concussion during a MMA or boxing event, then it's a shitty show no matter what. If no one suffers a concussion during a wrestling show, that's a really good thing because they're aren't suppose to.

Actually, Dave is a big fan of the high spot type matches, which was what we were arguing about him suddenly worrying about guys getting hurt. He's been very high on matches that were similar to what Sombra and Volador Jr's match turned out. You don't even have to discuss the MMA stuff when discussing his points about that match. He flip-flopped.But, ya' know, whatever...

My points still remain though. That's always been Dave's viewpoint of that. They spent so many radio shows talking about chairshots last year and the year before that. The fact that it's in Lucha Libre is basically irrelevant. His personal preference of seperating the two is his preference.

[Hagan]

Dunno if this has been brought up but Bryan's been ranting about Battleground coming so soon after NOC and so soon before HITC and arguing that the WWE doesn't need to do 13 PPVs a year and should only do 12.

 

Well, they are. Does no one correct this? Does no one on the show bother to check? The weird schedule is because they take like 6 weeks between EC and WM. I mean, the overall point of lumping PPVs in close together remains, but it's kind of an infuriating error.

[BEN!]

Wait, Joe Koff, from Sinclair?  He's the head of sale & marketing development, of course he wouldn't know any technical details.

 

ETA: We could certainly run a "Clash" dealie on Saturday afternoons when there's literally nothing on and somehow we end up running Bewitched despite not running it before or since.

He's still the Sinclair guy in charge of ROH for whatever reason so he should at least come equipped with better excuses.

 

A lot of their stations are network affliates though.  Can't imagine any station manager bumping a golf game or NASCAR race to early Sunday morning so they can air a ROH special when I doubt the regular ROH show pulls any kind of rating.

[cool arrow]

From the 7/29/96 WON:

 

Eddie Guerrero & Robert Gibson beat Bobby Eaton & David Taylor with Guerrero (subbing for Ricky Morton who missed the weekend because his father, former Jarrett ref Paul Morton, had a heart attack on 7/19) doing the Ricky Morton Southern babyface routine. Gibson and Eaton got a great reaction doing old Rock & Roll vs. Midnight spots. We had reports from all three weekend shows raving about Guerrero's performance doing the Ricky Morton routine basically saying he was able to combine the Southern babyface selling with 90s high spots.

 

Too bad this was just a house show.

[Robert]

Dunno if this has been brought up but Bryan's been ranting about Battleground coming so soon after NOC and so soon before HITC and arguing that the WWE doesn't need to do 13 PPVs a year and should only do 12.

 

This talking point always amuses me when UFC runs like 3 major shows in 4 weeks & overall there is at least 1 if not 2 MMA major events per week. (or I assume they are major events since Dave/Bryan spend so much time discussing them)

 

Wasn't there an 8 hour UFC show the other month? Or back-to-back shows that equalled 8 hours of TV?

[Elsalvajeloco]

At most, the UFC runs 2 major shows per month. There are usually two-three weeks gaps between shows with multiple legit, top fighters and then you have periods where it's a whole month. With the new Fox deal, there will probably be more. However, a lot of those shows are free and some of the PPVs aren't that important. So basically you have a maximum of 8-10 PPVs and maybe 2 FOX shows that are really important/can't miss and the rest is momentum builders for the next big show. There are at least few injury plagued UFC PPVs that you can afford to miss every year. And they can't cancel those shows because they are contractually obligated to give people fights. That's why one card is about six hours long give or take with Facebook (which UFC plans to move off eventually), Fox Sports 1, and/or PPV content.

 

Even with how long those shows are, it doesn't even come close to the amount of programming WWE does in the same calendar year. The UFC had 31 shows last year not counting TUF IIRC. 31 x 6 = 186. With Raw, Smackdown, and the PPVs, WWE is over the 300 hour mark or damn near close to it for original programming. That doesn't even count NXT, Main Event, and all that other shit. So yeah, I can see why it feels like a bit much.

[Ace]

Dunno if this has been brought up but Bryan's been ranting about Battleground coming so soon after NOC and so soon before HITC and arguing that the WWE doesn't need to do 13 PPVs a year and should only do 12.

 

Well, they are. Does no one correct this? Does no one on the show bother to check? The weird schedule is because they take like 6 weeks between EC and WM. I mean, the overall point of lumping PPVs in close together remains, but it's kind of an infuriating error.

 

Shows would be twice as long if they corrected Bryan every time. His memory is shite. He oughtta look into the Sports Legacy testing like Storm does. I can recall offhand at least one concussion he's had (King of Indies)

[MushroomJones]

 

The faces (Renegade & Joe Gomez & Jim Powers & Alex Wright) all got a video making them out to be young studs walking on the beach in shades taking their shirts off. While that stuff gets heat with the male fans, it was a way to at least give them a role so to speak, but then they ended up all being treated as jobbers.

 

I have been looking for these videos online (for a friend) almost thinking I had dreamed them up. Now, VALIDATION!

[Matt D]

"A Friend."

[Hagan]

FWIW - Dave and Bryan are very critical about how the oversaturation of UFC (and MMA) in general has hurt the sport.

[DougN]

What King Of The Indies did Alvarez wrestle in?

[cool arrow]

26.10.2001 Billy Bricks, Ed Moretti, Maxx Justice & Sean Patrick O'Doul defeat Bobby Quance, Chico Alvarez, Robert Thompson & Tommy Blaze

APW King Of Indies 2001 - Tag 1 @ Pacific Sports Center in Vallejo, California, USA

[DougN]

Oh, I thought you meant in the tournament. My bad.

[Ace]

IIRC, he was also in the battle royal, and got his bell rung by Super Dragon.

[Happ Hazzard]

Are either of Alvarez's matches on tape anywhere? The only version of KOI 2001 I have ever seen is just the tournament matches. In fact, has it even been given an official DVD release?