AEW TV - 9/25 - 10/1/2024 - Slam! Let The Boys Be Boys!

[For Great Justice]

15 hours ago, SovietShooter said:

As I see more and more discussion about how AEW draws, juxtaposed with the inevitable TV deal being announced, I think the promotion is eating itself trying to serve two masters. I think they are running big arenas so they can have high production values and elaborate sets that please their tv partners, while at the same time trying to have an in-ring product that would work better in an ECW Arena-like venue. Clearly the promotion is going to be kept alive (and profitable!) by their tv deal, so they are going to cater to that. And if you watch the show in a vacuum and have no idea what the attendance is, it appears to be a great crowd, which apparently is what WBD and Fox want.

I dunno, I'm kinda rambling, but I think we need to re-think the idea that on the business end of things AEW is dependent on ticket sales or weekly ratings.  The things that appear to be important to them are PPV buys, and broadcast rights. And if an entity is going to pay for their product, then they are going to provide it, even if it stretches them thin or hurts the creative.

I hate to give the guy I’m about to mention the time of day, but the concept of running big arenas at a loss so that you look more big time on TV is exactly what Bischoff did when he took over TNA. And he has defended it with his life in the years since.

But when AEW does it…

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

Hans

[elizium]

Disappointed to learn that Claudio's new music is not a knock off of Sledgehammer.

[tbarrie]

5 hours ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

- surprised at the finish.  Jericho-Briscoe ROH title yay!  Guess him and Orange is done?  What about the 10 grand and the car?

Jericho sometimes segues between feuds pretty quickly. Remember when it looked like we were going to get Jericho vs Darby for the soul of Sammy Guevara? Then it turned into Jericho vs Sting, then it turned into nothing.

5 hours ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

- we got namedrops of Psycosis, El Dandy, Silver King but the first name Ian goes to is BLITZKRIEG?!?

A number of people on this board have compared Hologram to Blitzkrieg. Maybe CoachTonyK saw that and asked Ian to echo it?

5 hours ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

- without further adieu.....that's French for adieu.  What's the soup of the day?

You probably already know this, but I believe they actually said adieu was French for "ado". Which it totally is not, of course.

[JLowe]

I had had quite a few beers by the time I watched Collision.

I liked the Saraya-Hayter match in that it was funny and also reminded you that Hayter is strong and tough. Now, where do we go from here? How can they thread a needle with revenge on Toni Storm, who is not the same person she was.

Neither trios match did much for me, other than enjoying the Conglomeration in general and advancing the story with Yuta. Is this where the Righteous got involved? Komander barely got involved, which probably protected him.

The lucha three-way was crazy and fun. The dipshit Bully Ray fan who always sits in the front row of east coast shows was making sour faces and crossing his arms the whole time. Fuck that guy. Honestly, the larger crowd never really got into this as much as I think they should have, presumably they were tired after 4+ hours.

MxM fucking kills me, I love them even though it’s definitely heavy sports entertainment. Even though it was obvious in retrospect, it took me a few minutes to recognize Billy Gunn was Hans, but I did figure it out before he unmasked.

The main dragged a lot. Biggest moments were Jarrett from the top to the floor, and the beating Hangman took towards the end. Juice looked like he was wearing tighty whities.

Overall, Collision was ok, definitely not something like a big event show.

[Jenalysis]

I wonder if Hangman-Juice is going to lead to the return of Jay.  Hangman did take out Jay, and Jay is likely still on Hangman's list.  That would be a good distraction feud for Hangman, and I think Jay as a babyface hanging with Hangman in some sort of deathmatch would solidify Jay as a top guy in AEW.

 

[JLowe]

I forgot about Sammy-Okada, which says a lot about how memorable the match was.

[odessasteps]

14 hours ago, Eivion said:

He betrayed his own father, insulted his family, and has just been growing as a sleazy douchebag heel. 

Yes and no. They definitely hated his ass legit at first. Over time they have definitely started to appreciate him more for what he does and be in on the gag. Its hard to truly hate anyone who can legit fluster and annoy Logan Paul with such ease and grace.

I think the more he appears to be cosplaying Eddy Guerrero, the more fans like him but play along by booing him. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

10 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I think the more he appears to be cosplaying Eddy Guerrero, the more fans like him but play along by booing him. 

Dom reminds me more of Love Machine Art Barr. And his gear has been pretty dope. He recently broke out the La Parka tribute gear which looks great. 

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

52 minutes ago, JLowe said:

I forgot about Sammy-Okada, which says a lot about how memorable the match was.

lol, I thought you accidentally turned the show off after the strap match like I did 

I forgot that match was even a thing (I don't remember them hyping it up as the main during the broadcast, no promos) and just assumed Hangman/JJ was the main event.  I also did a wake and bake b4 I watched but I'm blaming AEW

[AxB]

The Fite broadcast just skipped the ad breaks, so we were already off air before the main even started. Which did mean that, for the first time in ages, we couldn't tell how long the match was going to be, just by looking at the clock.

AEW did a TV Time Remaining draw one time ever (Mox vs Pac) and the fans bitched about it, so they never did it again. This was early days Dynamite, so they hadn't figured out the level of bitching that would happen whenever anything happened ever.

[HarryArchieGus]

3/4 thru Collision. Taking a break in hopes of a bit of an upswing. I'm still a champion of their act, but the MxM segment was unbelievably bad. I do admit to skimming heavily after the 3rd model walked in. This was fit for the all time hall of shame. I skimmed heavily on Saraya v Hayter. I was very much looking forward to this, but thought the comedy and hardcore really hurt the early part. I appreciated what I was seeing down the stretch into that really strong finish. Jamie killed her. The Renee/Ricochet/Ospreay segment clips looked great here and on Rampage. I'm intrigued. I was having difficulty with Briscoe/O Reilly/OC v Jericho/Keith/Bill, but I support the finish. Brody King v Andretti was a good showcase for both. I like this Andretti (heading) heel character. The Righteous/Archer attack wasn't all that special, but it pleases me to see a little booking effort in the lower card. I liked Jack Perry v Suzuki. Even the unpopular finish. I did not however enjoy the Scapegoat bus video. Pretty, pretty pointless. What's the logic here? Who is filming this and asking for it to air on AEW TV? Claudio/Pac/Wheeler v Privates/Komander was a bit disappointing if understandable. It was pretty well executed, but a little less effective by this sleepy Arthur Ashe crowd. The Yuta finish felt strong. Hologram v Beast Mortos v Dralistico worked hard for whatever crowd they could get. There was some beautiful spots down the stretch. I like a Rush/Beast/Dralistico team, but I really hope they haven't split Don/Rush. Don with this crew would be excellent. Hopefully that's enough space in between to properly enjoy Hangman-Jarrett and Sammy-Okada....

(EDIT) Hangman v Jarrett was fun. I liked the dynamics with the different lumberjacks. I also liked Hangman taking out many of them only to receive his comeuppance. Strong win over Jarrett and an army. Okada v Sammy, despite the inevitable backwards heel/babyface dynamic, and a very sleepy crowd, was nicely executed. I'm totally fine with Okada half selling the finish and going over strong. Guevara is a cold, cold fish. Strong close to what had been up to that point one of my least favorite Collision shows. I really hope this the last Arthur Ashe show for now.  

Edited September 30 by HarryArchieGus

[Technico Support]

5 hours ago, JLowe said:

The dipshit Bully Ray fan who always sits in the front row of east coast shows was making sour faces and crossing his arms the whole time. Fuck that guy. Honestly,

Fuck yes.  Go to an AEW show and then hold signs all night about some dumb radio show/pod that has just the worst garage dad opinionz 4 u re: wrestling just hoping, I guess, they mention you in their dumb fucking show?  Please rethink your life choices.

[YouHaveUntil5]

I only saw the second half of the show. The MxM thing was…something. Hangman/Jarrett was mostly good, but got a little carried away at the end. I liked how varied people were in attire - some people were literal lumberjacks while Satnam came out looking like he had an important business meeting after the match. I figured that would be the main, it would have made more sense in that spot than Okada/Sammy because it was a gimmick match. 
 

Also, props to whoever at TNT fell asleep during the strap match and didn’t send it PiP, then randomly rewound it/made it skip, then went back to the beginning, then the moments after the break, and then finally went to commercial (not before having a title screen come up for like 30 seconds). 

[JLowe]

Ha I realized while I was out grocery shopping that I also forgot about Perry-Suzuki. Murder Grandpa treated him with kid gloves, and Perry clearly was not going to poke the bear. The TNT title angle is an utter failure and the sooner they metaphorically sacrifice the scapegoat the better.

[The Natural]

7 hours ago, JLowe said:

Ha I realized while I was out grocery shopping that I also forgot about Perry-Suzuki. Murder Grandpa treated him with kid gloves, and Perry clearly was not going to poke the bear. The TNT title angle is an utter failure and the sooner they metaphorically sacrifice the scapegoat the better.

This. Thank you.

Edited September 30 by The Natural

[DreamBroken]

Commentary covering for Riccaboni not being at the desk by saying he was hiding under the table from Suzuki was hilarious. 

Jarrett/Hangman was fun. Like others, thought this was the main event, so Sammy/Okada headlining made me think for a sec that Sammy had a chance or something. 

On 9/28/2024 at 10:24 AM, JLowe said:

So, Rampage was pretty good.

Anna Jay is back! She forgets to shout out Dark Order, those guys get no respect! What did she learn in Japan? To fight a little more stiff it seems, and a Gory Bomb finisher. Maybe the shotgun dropkick although I think she was already using it. Her intro music has a hyper pop beat now. Robyn Renegade has basically been on AEW since her actual in-ring debut and has gotten markedly better. I know they give her a lot more on ROH, and they’ve let her have more offense on AEW TV, but would like to see her have a little push.

Main event time, and Willow is incredibly over! Good lord do I hate Taya’s intro music. Best match of the night, lots of back and forth, both get to show their strength, Taya shows ring veteran savvy, Willow shows her fire.

Agreed as a huge fan of Robyn, and I love that Anna Jay got to have that Stardom tour.  I've gotten used to Taya's theme now, but her classic Impact 2019-20 theme will always be best! 

[HarryArchieGus]

On 9/28/2024 at 4:57 PM, SovietShooter said:

As I see more and more discussion about how AEW draws, juxtaposed with the inevitable TV deal being announced, I think the promotion is eating itself trying to serve two masters. I think they are running big arenas so they can have high production values and elaborate sets that please their tv partners, while at the same time trying to have an in-ring product that would work better in an ECW Arena-like venue. Clearly the promotion is going to be kept alive (and profitable!) by their tv deal, so they are going to cater to that. And if you watch the show in a vacuum and have no idea what the attendance is, it appears to be a great crowd, which apparently is what WBD and Fox want.

I dunno, I'm kinda rambling, but I think we need to re-think the idea that on the business end of things AEW is dependent on ticket sales or weekly ratings.  The things that appear to be important to them are PPV buys, and broadcast rights. And if an entity is going to pay for their product, then they are going to provide it, even if it stretches them thin or hurts the creative.

They all go hand in hand. The big arenas for production theory is totally fair, and may be true. ECW forward, I've always been far more drawn to louder, more intimate venues - to which I believe AEW would benefit (especially now) from. I don't mean Universal Studios or free tickets for curious spectator settings. AEW's venture into E Sports Stadium felt similar to that. It was also a poor decision to fit the regular big screen stage set-up (which looked gaudy in the smaller environs), and to then hardcam towards it (like the often lifeless Impact Zone). The Arlington crowds weren't without their moments, but at other times they felt rushed in from waiting lines for sugary snacks and Rollercoasters. 

If Grand Slam had been held at the Hammerstein Ballroom (for example) rather than Arthur Ashe, I sense a lot more of the roster would've seemed over. I'm not quite sure, with logistics in mind, that the answer is to simply downsize the buildings and stay clear of poor markets (and more prominent in better markets), but I hope it's part of the company's conversation. Hot crowds are a lot more hit and miss in these half to 3/4 empty buildings. An engaged hot crowd is a greater production boon than going wide to show the size of a darkened building.  

[Technico Support]

I loved the booking of the Hangman match, with Page just losing it and wanting to fight everybody, to the point of even threatening Aubrey Edwards.  It's just this sad tale of Page as a good man who has thoroughly and utterly lost his way and I really hope there's a satisfying endgame being booked for this story because it's pretty cool so far.

[SovietShooter]

2 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I'm not quite sure, with logistics in mind, that the answer is to simply downsize the buildings and stay clear of poor markets (and more prominent in better markets), but I hope it's part of the company's conversation.

I think a big part of the problem is that those smaller (3000 to 6000 seat) arenas are somewhat a thing of the past, or are often located in smaller "college towns" away from the larger population centers. I think what the Arlington residency and the large video screen/stage demonstrates is that AEW values the presentation and appearance on video, over scaling to the venue. They aren't going to run shows in ECW Arena, Hammerstein, Nashville Fairgrounds, etc for that reason.  So instead they are left to run NBA-sized arenas.

[HarryArchieGus]

15 minutes ago, SovietShooter said:

I think a big part of the problem is that those smaller (3000 to 6000 seat) arenas are somewhat a thing of the past, or are often located in smaller "college towns" away from the larger population centers. I think what the Arlington residency and the large video screen/stage demonstrates is that AEW values the presentation and appearance on video, over scaling to the venue. They aren't going to run shows in ECW Arena, Hammerstein, Nashville Fairgrounds, etc for that reason.  So instead they are left to run NBA-sized arenas.

Are they a thing of the past? Wasn't AEW running that size of building during the early days of Dynamite?

I understand their value on 'Video'. It seems to be a wrestling-bubble thing. I suppose it works well enough for AEWTV, but (and sorta to your point) far less appealing for smaller companies like Impact, MLW, and countless Indies. For them it looks cheap, second rate, and a bit garish. Trons are overrated, simple entrance ways underrated.

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

I know the first time AEW ran Boston they went to the Boston University Agganis Arena which is a hockey arena that holds about 7k.  I seem to remember that first Dynamite run before the pandemic generally going to 2-8k college arenas rather than the the bigger venues

I was just thinking the other day that they really need to start scaling down and go to more intimate venues.  There's only so much you can do to make a huge arena with 2k people look full and it's hurting the heat.  I'm someone who's enjoyment of a show is affected by the crowd heat and it's kind of a bummer watching guys busting their asses to little reaction

I know why Tony doesn't though.  He cares about perception, has the "if you build it they will come" mentality.....and like, you dress for the job and the girl you want, right?  If he starts booking smaller venues he probably views it as a self defeating propecy that will be an admission that AEW is the "B" company.  I don't view it that way at all, and I think hotter crowds in smaller venues would make for a hotter product and lead to a ratings increase.  Plus people want different from AEW, different looks are good

[Technico Support]

I forgot to mention that the entrance way made it so evident how much they scaled down for Grand Slam for this year.  I remember the first year’s show having a long video ramp to the ring.  This year was just flat floor and a sad little 10 foot walk.  I was worried about how Danielson would time out his entrance with such a short distance

Edited September 30 by Technico Support

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Late to the party, but real life got in the way a bit this week.

It was definitely a sad sight to see how scaled down it was, but I think the show itself was the best since year one (at least as a live experience). We were tired as hell by Collision, but the MxM stuff got a great reaction in the building and was a really nice way to cleanse the palette before Okada/Sammy.

On the attendance front, one big positive I noticed was that they were pushing the upcoming shows in NJ and CT hard, at one point even putting a QR code up on the KhanTron to buy tickets which I thought was brilliant. It's a good first step, at least.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

1 hour ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

I know the first time AEW ran Boston they went to the Boston University Agganis Arena which is a hockey arena that holds about 7k.  I seem to remember that first Dynamite run before the pandemic generally going to 2-8k college arenas rather than the the bigger venues

I was just thinking the other day that they really need to start scaling down and go to more intimate venues.  There's only so much you can do to make a huge arena with 2k people look full and it's hurting the heat.  I'm someone who's enjoyment of a show is affected by the crowd heat and it's kind of a bummer watching guys busting their asses to little reaction

I know why Tony doesn't though.  He cares about perception, has the "if you build it they will come" mentality.....and like, you dress for the job and the girl you want, right?  If he starts booking smaller venues he probably views it as a self defeating propecy that will be an admission that AEW is the "B" company.  I don't view it that way at all, and I think hotter crowds in smaller venues would make for a hotter product and lead to a ratings increase.  Plus people want different from AEW, different looks are good

When I first saw ECW, the hot crowds in smaller buildings made it seem so crazy. To me, smaller buildings with hotter crowds would fit the "For the Sickos" tag. I'm all honesty, Vince took the Fed to high school gyms in the 90s and then a short few years later things had heated up so there's no shame in AEW doing the same.