Queen of Villains

[ohtani's jacket]

Watched the first episode. It's good, but I've got to say it's a highly fictionalized account of Dump Matsumoto's life. I hope people don't view it as a history lesson. Some of the scenes are based on actual events, but almost nothing happens the way it occurred in real life.  It's a dramatization so that's understandable. I just hope fans don't get confused by it.

The wrestling choreography looks great. They use a lot of sound effects, but the actual wrestling is better than I expected. For the most part, they get the retro stuff correct, though it's difficult for them to create the exact atmosphere of the wrestling matches. There also exterior scenes that are clearly not 1970s exteriors, but that can't be helped. The haircuts and clothes are awesome and the interior scenes look great. 

The way they present the inner workings of the wrestling business will cause a few eyes to roll, especially the unnecessary explanation for the Jackie Sato vs. Maki Ueda retirement match. The Matsunagas did manipulate the wrestlers' feelings a lot and cause dissension among them, but the locker room scene between Jackie and Maki is silly. 

The acting is good. Yuriyan does a terrific job as the lead. 

Some cool cameos from Devil Masami and Monster Ripper in the first episode. 

[nofuture]

WWE Vault just posted this in honor of the show's release.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, nofuture said:

WWE Vault just posted this in honor of the show's release.

Now that's some corporate synergy I can get behind.

[assfax]

The faux retro posters they had at that Korakuen netflix event kick ass.

 

AJW-fied Iroha and Maria are awesome.  Are they playing real wrestlers or composites in the series?

Edited September 19 by assfax

[Casey]

First like, minute of this show, and there’s the Atrocious Alliance and Bull Nakano. I’m in!

The English dub cast for this is unexpected, weird and crazy. It also makes sense as to why WWE is pseudo promoting it with corporate synergy online. Alexa Bliss does the English dub for Maki Ueda, Jackie Sato is voiced by Nikki Bella.

[TimLivingston]

I’m three in and digging it big time. It’s a J Drama, so historical accuracy gets booted to the side in many instances, but holy crap, the wrestling here is top notch. Chigusa and company really trained the actors well, and they do a great job throughout. Really committed all the way through. Incredibly impressed by a lot of this, even if, as said before, the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired in some ways. 

[Juji Gatame]

I love this show. They've captured 80's AJW really well - it looks fantastic. The wrestling looks authentic. Dump's story is compelling enough to carry things. Popped Crane Yu saying her dream was to be a top babyface wrestler in her audition. Never expected to see two main characters in a TV show discuss their love for the 1979 Jackie Sato vs. Monster Ripper match, but here we are.

[ohtani's jacket]

Episode 2 is fun. The timeline is all over the place and it leans heavily into fictionalized drama, but the wrestling is great. Love Jackie's outfits. They went pretty soft on the bullying, but I guess that was to be expected. The Jaguar Yokota/Jackie Sato stuff was silly. Toshikuni Matsunaga never looked as cool as Takumi Saitoh, and I don't think he was pulling the strings as much as the show makes out. I did love Takuma Oto as Shiro Abe. Shout out to the luchadoras as well. 

[TimLivingston]

A fantastic series; fast forward button is slammed on towards the end to wrap up all the story beats, but it was a true success. The Hair match re-creation gave me chills, especially with the entrances where they threw out some of the same camera shots from the actual taping. Well worth the time, and I wish there was more. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The good news is that today it became the number one watched show on Japan Netflix.

I finished episode 3, and I have to say the best thing about the show is the amount of training the main cast did to learn how to wrestle. That part of the show is fantastic. There's a strange insistence on the frontrunner's part to have every match turn into a shoot, but the fighting looks good. Personally, I think they did Jaguar Yokota dirty. There was an amusing article about Jaguar's husband watching the show and stopping it every few minutes to ask her whether it really happened like that in real life. I've been trying to rack my brains over who Lovely Yoneyama is supposed to be. Some Japanese fans are speculating that it's meant to be Nancy Kumi. Nancy Kumi had a reputation for being one of the worst bullies among the wrestlers. 

The weakest part of the show so far is the scene where "Dump" is born. That was totally over the top, the lightening effects were cheesy, as best I can tell, it was completely fictional, as was Dump coming to the ring, choking Chigusa out and acting like Nailz released from the psych ward. The disco story was a story Dump shared in some articles that the show is based on. Whether Chigusa's interview in the magazine ever happened, I'm not sure. It's definitely not how Dump because Dump. That wouldn't matter if it didn't come across as a cheesy horror flick, and once again everything being a shoot. I was far more taken with the jogging scene where Dump can't keep up with Chigusa and you see Chigusa running off into the distance. 

The actress who played Devil was having fun. She's a little undersized but the voice and mannerisms are great. 

[nofuture]

Here's a good Twitter thread separating what's fact and fiction in the show along with links to the matches depicted in the show.

 

Edited September 21 by nofuture

[Greggulator]

I know nothing about 80s joshi beyond watching a bunch of Dump and Crush Gals and the big moments. First episode of Queen of Villains is really really fun. The wide-eyed innocence and pain of young Dump Matsumoto is really great soap opera. I hope this catches on because it’s really good. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Episode four is pure fantasy. Entertaining fantasy, but every single scene is fabricated. In most cases, it's more interesting than the event that actually took place, but it paints a somewhat distorted view of what Dump was really like. For some reason, they chose to make her unsympathetic, which was perplexing. The whole shoot thing is out of control as well. All Japan Women were not have matches decided on shoot pins in the 1980s. The series is entertaining, and I'm gad it's successful, but I wonder if this was how sumo fans felt watching Sanctuary. 

[Gordi the recovering AEW f]

 

She was very nice to me, both times I met her. She looked like a pleasant, chubby grandmother without the makeup on. When she put the makeup on, though, she was still absolutely terrifying.

Edited September 22 by Gordi the recovering AEW f

[ka-to]

23 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Episode four is pure fantasy. Entertaining fantasy, but every single scene is fabricated. In most cases, it's more interesting than the event that actually took place, but it paints a somewhat distorted view of what Dump was really like. For some reason, they chose to make her unsympathetic, which was perplexing. The whole shoot thing is out of control as well. All Japan Women were not have matches decided on shoot pins in the 1980s. The series is entertaining, and I'm gad it's successful, but I wonder if this was how sumo fans felt watching Sanctuary. 

Did they have the rookie matches that went from endless bodyslams and dropkicks to the shoot finish pinfall back then? How about the weird martial arts matches? Of course matches that mattered had booked finishes.

[ohtani's jacket]

The final episode bordered on ridiculous at times. The idea of Dump going "off script" in the hair vs. hair match after being offered 10 million yen to lose was ridiculous and I can understand why Japanese fans on Twitter weren't really happy about it (if even those fans are labelled as pro-wrestling otaku by others.) The way they staged the fight made it bloodier and more violent than the actual bout, but they went a bit far with it as it made it seem like Dump was about to kill her. The match did cause a riot and there were a flood of complaints that led to the show being temporary banned in some regions. The show is pretty light with the consequences. Instead, we get a muddled timeline that eventually leads to the Dump retirement match (which was also Yukari Omori's retirement match, but they don't mention that on the show.) They use the retirement match to resolve things, but man is the part where they knock out the Matsunaga brothers stupid. 

As for doing Jaguar dirty, the worst thing they do is make the 8/85 Budokan show seem like a failure because they didn't get the results from the Japan Grand Prix that they wanted. In reality, it was a hugely successful show for the promotion. Asuka got the big match with Jaguar that she supposedly wanted in the show. They just chose to ignore it. Just like they ignored the hair vs hair rematch, the title matches that followed Jaguar's retirement, and the fact that Chigusa, Lioness and Omori all held the Big Red Belt despite the show portraying them as being held down. Jaguar did get pushed out the door in part because of the mandatory retirement age, but for some reason they chose not to include the retirement rule in the show. 

According to Dump she was estranged from her father for 50 years before they reconciled on his deathbed in 2019, so so no emotional scenes with dad in real life.

Personally, I thought the final episode was disappointing. I don't think they got the beats right in the story. There wasn't enough motivation for Dump to turn "face" again in terms of how they wrote the show. It's not a bad show, but I would personally rank it behind Naked Director and Sanctuary for Japanese Netflix shows dealing with similar eras and topics. 

Edited September 23 by ohtani's jacket

[ohtani's jacket]

3 hours ago, ka-to said:

Did they have the rookie matches that went from endless bodyslams and dropkicks to the shoot finish pinfall back then? How about the weird martial arts matches? Of course matches that mattered had booked finishes.

They don't specifically feature rookie matches. The major matches they present as shoot finishes are the Jackie Sato vs. Maki Ueda retirement match, the Jackie Sato vs. Jaguar match where Jackie drops the title, the 1985 JGP, the first Chigusa vs. Dump hair match, and the extended portion of the Dump retirement match where Dump tags with Chigusa. 

This is a bit of an odd question, but you've been to Korakuen Hall dozens of times, did they ever cook yakisoba there when you visited? For some reason, this bothered a lot of Japanese fans on Twitter. I may have been misunderstanding what people were talking about, though. 

[Greggulator]

Yeah, the show fell off for me in the second half. Presenting AJW as a shoot promotion and that Dump was legit stabbing other performers with forks was really weird. From what I know — my joshi knowledge is limited — but the actual backstage dramas were a lot more interesting. Dump actually trying to reduce bullying backstage (due to what she endured) while portraying the ultimate bully on screen is a way better character note, along with the promoters doing a divide-and-conquer to ruin her relationship with the Crush Gals. 

It’s still a fun show. At the very least, I just watched the Lioness vs. Dump match from AJW and it rules. Jeez, you can see how much influence Lioness had on people like Finn Balor and Claudio and Danielson. 

[ka-to]

19 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

They don't specifically feature rookie matches. The major matches they present as shoot finishes are the Jackie Sato vs. Maki Ueda retirement match, the Jackie Sato vs. Jaguar match where Jackie drops the title, the 1985 JGP, the first Chigusa vs. Dump hair match, and the extended portion of the Dump retirement match where Dump tags with Chigusa. 

This is a bit of an odd question, but you've been to Korakuen Hall dozens of times, did they ever cook yakisoba there when you visited? For some reason, this bothered a lot of Japanese fans on Twitter. I may have been misunderstanding what people were talking about, though. 

I've seen pictures of someone from the family making yakisoba at outdoor spot shows. No cooking at Korakuen Hall. They did what happens in some books and movies of taking two things that happened (yakisoba at wrestling shows and wrestling at Korakuen) and combined them together for the story. I have seen yakisoba made at the merch tables outside of Shin-Kiba sometimes. 

[ohtani's jacket]

11 hours ago, ka-to said:

I've seen pictures of someone from the family making yakisoba at outdoor spot shows. No cooking at Korakuen Hall. They did what happens in some books and movies of taking two things that happened (yakisoba at wrestling shows and wrestling at Korakuen) and combined them together for the story. I have seen yakisoba made at the merch tables outside of Shin-Kiba sometimes. 

The series shows Takashi Matsunaga cooking yakisoba at various venues, as he did in real-life. Fans were just balking over the grill plate being set up Korakuen Hall with propane gas. One person also went off about the price of the yakisoba being wrong. Someone else joked that the AJW yakisoba wasn't that good but that it brought back memories of Frankie the midget trying to fleece money out of folks. Netflix gave visitors yakisoba at a viewing they held at Korakuen Hall, and the dish has become a bit of a talking point surrounding the show. 

[ohtani's jacket]

13 hours ago, Greggulator said:

Yeah, the show fell off for me in the second half. Presenting AJW as a shoot promotion and that Dump was legit stabbing other performers with forks was really weird. From what I know — my joshi knowledge is limited — but the actual backstage dramas were a lot more interesting. Dump actually trying to reduce bullying backstage (due to what she endured) while portraying the ultimate bully on screen is a way better character note, along with the promoters doing a divide-and-conquer to ruin her relationship with the Crush Gals. 

It’s still a fun show. At the very least, I just watched the Lioness vs. Dump match from AJW and it rules. Jeez, you can see how much influence Lioness had on people like Finn Balor and Claudio and Danielson. 

Even though the episodes were longer than a usual drama, I thought the series was too short. The final two episodes felt rushed. I don't know if that was a COVID-related thing, but there was enough story to have 8 episodes. They could have even had a second season, imo. I also would have liked to have seen a more realistic version of what Dump was like backstage, but they set the narrative up like her act was real. 

[TimLivingston]

I think like many Netflix shows, they were given a budget and when they realized they had more meat on the bone but no room to expand, they had to compartmentalize and compromise, sadly. The showrunners leaned too much on some aspects for drama when there was plenty there in how the wrestling was actually presented. Think they severely underestimated the audience. 

Edited September 25 by TimLivingston

[Norwegian Rudo]

On 9/21/2024 at 8:55 PM, Greggulator said:

I know nothing about 80s joshi beyond watching a bunch of Dump and Crush Gals and the big moments. First episode of Queen of Villains is really really fun. The wide-eyed innocence and pain of young Dump Matsumoto is really great soap opera. I hope this catches on because it’s really good. 

If you want to see more there is a crazy comp someone put together recently and posted to Youtube. The best part is they've subtitled the promos and video packages and such (no subs on matches).

(1) 1980s Joshi Set - Vol 1 - YouTube

Unfortunately some of the (18) parts have been removed on YT but they can be found here:

Kadaveri Joshi's Videos | VK

[Cobra Commander]

watching the first episode and I think this will be easier to follow with Japanese+subtitles instead of a dub or something where I have to pay attention to sounds

edit: i'm in the 5th episode.. and yeah, while presenting AJW as a shoot is complete bullshit.. I guess the story might work better as a drama than saying the matches are worked

Of all the shows with multiple big scenes involving someone being kicked through a wall, or kicked through the hole in a wall

Edited October 3 by Cobra Commander

[Cobra Commander]

So is the Queen of Villains theme song an original song or something recorded before the show? because the subtitled lyrics of the opening theme make it sound tremendous

The QOV has some good out of context subtitle/screenshot scenes where you could just use the image for a meme randomly. Like most of the scenes with Dump yelling obscenities at people.

The only Japanese I speak is from watching puro and noticing they say "Hai" and "Su Des Ne" a lot.. so I don't know how accurate the captioning was.