The Vince Documentary

[zendragon]

I could see the bigger Issue with Shane and/or Vince owning the UFC is kinda what happened with the XFL where he couldn't let it be its own thing and made it WWE Brand Football. I could see him having Jesse Ventura being the UFC color commentator and trying to work a one sided feud with Big John or something (for another example Vince couldn't just have a nice little indy movie studio it had to be Kane with a 3 foot cock)

[Elsalvajeloco]

Hell, even with the XFL, Vince's whole mantra was we're bringing back your dad's football with the old school 1960-1970s gridiron brutality. I mean he failed miserably, but that was his logic. That itself was inherently flawed cause the same folks who would play in the XFL come from the same places where those "pussy ass" NFL diva players who get protected come from. They didn't make any new Jack Tatums who just somehow didn't get drafted to the NFL, surprisingly.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

25 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The same people who have that logic are the same folks who believe the NFL wants to Chiefs to win all the Super Bowls cause of Taylor Swift. It's based on nothing that makes any type of sense.

 

Yeah, I mean, I like Taylor Swift but I don't have the resources to set up a national conspiracy.

[Curt McGirt]

Here's something the documentary passed on mentioning: https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-wrestling-stories/vince-mcmahon-evel-knievel/

[supremebve]

Episode 3 thoughts

As someone who knows a few people who have beat some charges in court, there is a large gap between not guilty and innocent.  Vince is the type of person who gets found not guilty and expects everyone to ignore the gaping crevice in the earth and call him innocent.

Vince goes on and on about how he is going to destroy his competition and it's the law of the jungle and I don't fight fair.  Ted Turner pays his employees more and Vince starts acting the bitch.  When they call him on it, he just starts talking in circles until he thinks he convinced himself that he's made a point.  He's so used to people buying his bullshit, that he says anything and expects people to believe it.

Vince is such a piece of shit.  They specifically asked to do the curtain call, he said, "OK."  Then he punishes HHH for it anyway.

I have to say, the Hogan heel turn is fucking perfect.  There are great moments in wrestling, but that is probably the #1 most perfect moment ever.  

How many times do you think Ted Turner has even thought the name VInce McMahon?  10-15?  I'm willing to bet that Ted Turner has never given a single solitary fuck about Vince.

Vince trying to act like he walked up to Bret with his hands down to give Bret a free shot is another example of lying when the truth will do.  

[just drew]

On 9/26/2024 at 3:54 AM, hobo joe said:

I didnt catch the Heyman bit, but the captioning has been off with attributing offscreen dialogue on a few occasions that I’ve noticed.

As for Tony Atlas, I’m not surprised. He carried Bruiser Brody into the ambulance when he was bleeding out. Of course he’s a good dude.

It kinda rubbed me the wrong way when he made those Pat Patterson accusations knowing that Pat isn’t around to defend himself. Have there been corroborations to that?

 

Also, I haven’t gotten to finish the doc yet. I’ve been displaced by Helene. Everyone in the Drew house is fine. Persons and property. Just migrated 70 miles west to a family home w electricity.

[Mister TV]

11 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Here's something the documentary passed on mentioning: https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-wrestling-stories/vince-mcmahon-evel-knievel/

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that a whole very good segment on the Evel Knievel jump was cut due to time and not really fitting with the story being told. 

[supremebve]

1 hour ago, just drew said:

It kinda rubbed me the wrong way when he made those Pat Patterson accusations knowing that Pat isn’t around to defend himself. Have there been corroborations to that?

 

Also, I haven’t gotten to finish the doc yet. I’ve been displaced by Helene. Everyone in the Drew house is fine. Persons and property. Just migrated 70 miles west to a family home w electricity.

Literally all the victims they showed said it was Part Patterson specifically,  on camera,  in front of an audience,  from the mountain tops,  and anywhere else people name names. This is not new and pretty much everyone who had ever talked about it names Pat Patterson. If you have about 12 hours to spare listen to the Between The Sheets podcast episodes called Titangate.  They break down all of these scandals in depth and cite all of their sources. This is not a witch hunt,  all evidence shows that Pat Patterson was deeply involved. If he was here to defend himself,  it wouldn't make a bit of difference. 

Don't ever give anyone in the wrestling business the benefit of the doubt. 

[The Natural]

https://d2thvodm3xyo6j.cloudfront.net/media/2024/09/0551bc6dd4eeb74706d73f0cf8846390-600x338.png

Damming.

[just drew]

2 hours ago, supremebve said:

Literally all the victims they showed said it was Part Patterson specifically,  on camera,  in front of an audience,  from the mountain tops,  and anywhere else people name names. This is not new and pretty much everyone who had ever talked about it names Pat Patterson. If you have about 12 hours to spare listen to the Between The Sheets podcast episodes called Titangate.  They break down all of these scandals in depth and cite all of their sources. This is not a witch hunt,  all evidence shows that Pat Patterson was deeply involved. If he was here to defend himself,  it wouldn't make a bit of difference. 

Don't ever give anyone in the wrestling business the benefit of the doubt. 

Thanks for this. I will check it out. 

[odessasteps]

JC on episode 2 

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/NORxVhHkV0U?si=O9QUrGQQzHI3br9j

 

[Ziggy]

On 9/28/2024 at 12:40 AM, supremebve said:

 

Vince trying to act like he walked up to Bret with his hands down to give Bret a free shot is another example of lying when the truth will do.  

He had been telling that lie from the beginning. I recall him saying that for years. 

 

The same about Hogan not knowing Andre would do business was a story Hulk had been  telling for years.

[Dolfan in NYC]

 

[twiztor]

On 9/27/2024 at 7:51 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

when the XFL happened, it was more the crazy pro wrestling czar wants to compete against the NFL and not football is about to rigged more than people already believe it to be. That was the angle people were using.

we must have experienced the 2001 XFL run in completely different ways. ALL i heard was that football was going to be all fake like WWE now.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

I thought for the most part everyone interviewed came across fairly well. But other than Vince looking even worse than I’d thought he would, Steve Austin was a pretty close second for his CTE comments. 

Like I get not buying into the science behind it, but to just outright deny its existence after multiple athletes have been proven to have had it is ludicrous. 

[Mister TV]

1 hour ago, twiztor said:

we must have experienced the 2001 XFL run in completely different ways. ALL i heard was that football was going to be all fake like WWE now.

My neighborhood bookie didn't take any action on the first week of XFL games due to not knowing if it was going to be fake or not, I don't think anyone attempted to bet the rest of the season due to how bad the games were.

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, Mister TV said:

My neighborhood bookie didn't take any action on the first week of XFL games due to not knowing if it was going to be fake or not, I don't think anyone attempted to bet the rest of the season due to how bad the games were.

So let me get this right...pro wrestlers barely know how to act, but you can stage an entire 2 1/2 hour football game with lower level football players without people being able to see through it? Also, I love that the bookie is taking bets on a league where folks maybe know three players for any of the teams involved.

4 hours ago, twiztor said:

we must have experienced the 2001 XFL run in completely different ways. ALL i heard was that football was going to be all fake like WWE now.

100% of the marketing was SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL. I think they may have worked that phrase in no less than 9,000 times. Between that and the kickoff change, it was evident that their only leg up with virtually mostly unknown players was trying to make it a car crash derby.

[AxB]

On 9/28/2024 at 3:30 AM, Curt McGirt said:

Here's something the documentary passed on mentioning: https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-wrestling-stories/vince-mcmahon-evel-knievel/

The day I was born. Apparently that day, all of the nightly news shows in America talked and talked about how President Ford had chosen to pardon Richard Nixon, and what that meant for the future of American politics. And quite a lot of people were watching the news to hear as to whether Evel Knievel was alive or dead, being as the broadcast of the Snake River Canyon jump went "No signal from venue" right after he took off and the parachute deployed immediately. But yeah, of the three things that happened that day, my zeroeth Birthday was clearly the most important.

On 9/28/2024 at 1:51 AM, Elsalvajeloco said:

The average fan though had very little detail on some of the issues that MMA was dealing with at the time. MMA was one of those things where it looked like another fly by night fad. It was popular in a very niche way for three years and then all of sudden just went away. So the average person wouldn't even hear about it being bought.

I mean, on this here board (well, the green one) that week, all of the talk was about WCW being bought. There was like one post saying "Apparently the UFC was also sold this week", which was met with complete apathy (as I recall).

[Curt McGirt]

The interesting thing about that article to me was finding out how much of a piece of shit Evel was. I knew he was a drunk (despite having that live quote on a Turbonegro record about "never drinking... much alcohol" which always sounded really disingenuous from the verbal pause) but didn't know he basically acted like a pro wrestler from back then in real life. Just as big of a wife beater and actually worse of a scam artist. 

[Log]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

The interesting thing about that article to me was finding out how much of a piece of shit Evel was. I knew he was a drunk (despite having that live quote on a Turbonegro record about "never drinking... much alcohol" which always sounded really disingenuous from the verbal pause) but didn't know he basically acted like a pro wrestler from back then in real life. Just as big of a wife beater and actually worse of a scam artist. 

I don't know what you expected. His name's not Good Knievel.

[Cobra Commander]

Watching this documentary.. i'm on Episode 4. I'll post more detailed comments later. I'm imagining the Vice documentary people watching this and noting every time a new talking head entered the story without doing an introduction of themselves.

So yeah, this is basically a "History of WWF Pro Wrestling" with a few warts that wouldn't make an official WWE documentary. It feels kinda fortunate that this wasn't released before the Janel Grant story dropped because holy shit would it kinda age questionably if they didn't have a chance to acknowledge how much of the documentary was filmed before this year.

[Mister TV]

3 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

The interesting thing about that article to me was finding out how much of a piece of shit Evel was. I knew he was a drunk (despite having that live quote on a Turbonegro record about "never drinking... much alcohol" which always sounded really disingenuous from the verbal pause) but didn't know he basically acted like a pro wrestler from back then in real life. Just as big of a wife beater and actually worse of a scam artist. 

Joe Eszterhas wrote an amazing article for Rolling Stone about Knievel's Snake River Canyon Jump, the title of the article is "King of the Goons".

[Cobra Commander]

Watching episode 5 where the family dynamics are pretty apparent. I don't know how many people are watching this who aren't fans in some sense but the people watching who aren't must think this is the weirdest damn thing in the world. Shane McMahon's Ben Savage looking self is here, but wait, Vince's daughter is now being put through the gauntlet of 1999 storylines.

And sure Triple H, you just came up with the idea of "we need to get out of this Stephanie/Test" storyline. I don't think they explained well enough that the storyline was that Stephanie was always in on it although I guess it should be obvious that the storyline was supposed to be that.

Naturally the two women from the 2000s WWF that they actually got on this show were two that the WWF probably would have put in Playboy if they could (Trish and Stephanie). Yes I know about the Trish photoshoots from before she joined the WWF. But WWF/E got like 5 divas into Playboy while they were there (Sable, Chyna, Torrie Wilson, Maria and I think one more... Ashley Massaro, maybe a sixth that i'm forgetting). And aside from Chyna/Ashley M who probably wouldn't have been in this documentary if she was alive, there's a variety of reasons why the others aren't here and they contain 3 of the letters in the word India. This company being as weird/bad as it was.. they probably found a way to get Stacy Keibler out of the company with a bag of money because I could believe they sexually harassed every woman in the company

First episode. it's the origin story. Things will always get left out. Old people who were there will insist that details are omitted. Vince probably didn't get enough love from his dad. The WWF is on MTV. Andy Warhol is on TV for some reason.

Second episode.. we're going from the aftermath of Wrestlemania 1 to the end of Hogan. Opening with Stand Back was probably a mindfuck to all these people unfamiliar. In retrospect, having the big accusations be steroids is so quaint. Of course the steroids helped run interference for all the rape scandals.

Third episode... hey i've always wondered about the postmatch festivities after Wendy got screwed out of the title. Also wondered how she could work a match with a masked Moolah without figuring out "hey it's Moolah". Like how much of this turned into a screwjob in retrospect.

Fourth episode.... Amazing they could find footage of Jackie in that bikini without seeing her aerolas. Yeah there was a lot of the attitude era that ages. Vince goes into Dr. Jerry Graham. Vince finally gets to be a heel (don't worry that they didn't mention what he did in Memphis in 1993). The footage choices really begin to show that Vince is full of it. And then they kill one of their stars and Vince has to clarify that, since Vince is a bit insane, sure he would want the show to go on if he died in the ring. There isn't as much terrifying footage of Kemper in this episode as in the Vice episode

Vince is pretty clearly separated from Linda but hey it's their time and money to do it like that.

So this is sort of a thing where you take the WWE documentary format and then turn it over to people who don't have any obligations to play by their rules.

You know Vince Russo is fuming that he got unpersoned in this documentary.

Meanwhile Bruce looks like he's a lounge singer.

Loved the footage of Ted Turner laughing at the Billionaire Ted clips.

Heyman looks like he's in a Mafia-fronted restaurant. Gerwitz is in some random bar. Bischoff is in his Wyoming abode. Bob Costas saying the word fuck!

Those fucking eyebrows are so distracting

Meanwhile we go back into the Shane/Vince stuff during episode 5. Yeah Shane clearly wasn't gonna get to take this over because Vince wasn't gonna go out on his own and the people who would take over with Vince around weren't gonna keep Shane around either

and if any non-wrestling people made it to episode 6 not believing what was next.. here's some time on the Trump vs Vince feud from 2007!

and then the limo explosion!

this fucking company

yeah i'm not surprised that a bunch of former wrestlers aren't necessarily sold on the concept of CTE

Interesting that there was a MLB game on the split screen of Vince watching multiple things on his screen

Edit: One more thing... the sequence of guys being interviewed on a territory and being interviewed in the WWF is an amazing work too

Edited October 4 by Cobra Commander

[Cobra Commander]

On 9/25/2024 at 1:55 PM, odessasteps said:

The amazing thing is the police there IN THE BUILDING did not declare a crime scene and stop the show, taking it out of Vinces hands. 

every time the KCPD does something badly, it gets blamed on the state of Missouri controlling the KC police, which is fairly unique among PDs. But when you deal with things without a clear precedent, there's a bit of inaction and deference. 

On 9/26/2024 at 12:51 AM, Curt McGirt said:

What the fuck is wrong with these people. There are so many instances of Stockholm Syndrome going on here. 

would we have gotten better answers if they asked these people after Vince went down or would they have clammed up like the people around Diddy are doing now

On 9/26/2024 at 11:11 AM, Craig H said:

Just finished it. There’s a very telling part at the beginning of the final episode. It’s Vince saying he has 2 or sometimes 3 computers in his brain running him and they often run into each other. That’s the clearest reveal ever that not only does he have ADHD, but also PTSD, CPTSD, depression, and any other number of mental issues that he has medicated through chemicals, work, and exercise. Sorry for pathologizing him. I know you shouldn’t do that, but in some instances it’s hard to not do that.

yeah, if you made it this far without figuring out Vince has something wrong with him, the computer thing might seal it

On 9/26/2024 at 12:50 PM, Curt McGirt said:

This also brings up the question of if he seriously might have dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple personality disorder. 

we haven't exactly seen evidence of the other personalities in public, so I don't know if it's exactly that.. it could also be that he took a bunch of head blows in his 50s during the late 90s/2000s and that helped fuck him up more

On 9/27/2024 at 12:39 PM, SirSmUgly said:

I am somewhat surprised that Vinnie Jr. hasn't joined Russell Simmons in Bali yet or built a house in Switzerland or Russia and rolled out or something like that. 

Government probably prefers Vince doesn't flee the country just yet

On 9/27/2024 at 1:09 PM, odessasteps said:

You also have to wonder if the general public would be skeptical of UFC being a shoot if Shane owned them. 

Well, every judges decision would be questioned a bit if the UFC was owned by a pro wrestling promoter

  

On 9/25/2024 at 4:45 PM, Craig H said:

They’re not greenscreens, but I do wonder where they’re interviewing Dave because it looks like there are two 3d printers side by side in the background and there is no way Dave owns a 3d printer. 

it looks like a pretty neat woodshop whoever owns it..

Edited October 4 by Cobra Commander

[Casey]

On 10/4/2024 at 4:42 PM, Cobra Commander said:

Well, every judges decision would be questioned a bit if the UFC was owned by a pro wrestling promoter

there’s a fun story in an old Observer about Inoki wanting to run an MMA show in Las Vegas in 2003, met with the commission and everything. They supposedly told him that he could, but everything had to be legit and he couldn’t do worked finishes (and couldn’t be under PRIDE rules). Obviously he didn’t go through with it.

the fans would balk at McMahon owning UFC and question it, but I do believe them when they said the only thing that would’ve changed is the production value (then, now the UFC is really good at it). Commissions can be carny, sure, but I doubt they’d allow that kind of fuckery.