JLowe Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 5 hours ago, Cliff Hanger said: My memory of it from 97-00 when I was really active was that there were a LOT of knife fights and this kind of poking, but I may just be getting senile in my 40s. It was unreadable with the trolls and the gimmick posters and Scott Keith clones. There’s a reason that some of the roots of the DVDVR forums come from the RSPW-M (moderated) group. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 3 hours ago, S.K.o.S. said: Obviously it's a match with less star power, but right now I would almost rather see MJF vs. Garcia than Ospreay. They could keep Garcia off tv for a month to sell the injury and still have enough time for more build when he returns. Although that would leave MJF with nothing really to do in the meantime. My guess is MJF vs. Daniel Garcia at All Out which will be in the same city as last night so the crowd will be jacked. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLowe Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Great episode. I’ve said many times PAC, for all his obvious talent, just doesn’t do it for me, and while this was naturally an excellent match, it never really held my attention other than me noticing that PAC was fighting extra stiff, including not holding anything back on the two big elbow drops. Willow’s promo, on the other hand, really got to me. Kinda wish it had been in the ring. Fantastic match, and one where the outcome was in doubt. Britt’s story was pretty shocking, and it sounds like there are some things that were even deeper mentally that she vaguely hinted at. She looks in great shape. And I guess her return allowed them to finally admit that Mercedes is a heel. Mone had a point about there being a lot of women who have earned and are waiting for their shot. The ladder match replay really showed how poorly received the Perry win was. Go away heat as far as I’m concerned. The rest did nothing to get me excited for Blood and Guts, other than the hope that Perry takes a few shoot shots. Didn’t we just have this same trios match like 2 weeks ago? It was fine, Hook actually showed some new stuff (the counter into the DDT) and didn’t throw his shitty punches, and then he took a heck of a beating. That’s about as much interest as I have in all this. Also, Jericho is actually a really good commentator, so having the Learning Tree commentary was both jarring and mute-button worthy. Page as the wild card did not really pop the crowd, and the dynamics of the match took a while to get over, but they did eventually. Still, never thought I would say this, Jarrett deserved a win. The post-match with Page and the Bucks was good development. I’m a big Daniel Garcia fan, have been pretty much since I first saw him, but this massive main event-level push is kind of random and out of nowhere. They keep talking up his record since the Classic but have they really been high level wins? That said, hell of a match. I was thinking that MJF would cheat behind Danny’s back to get him the belt, with the idea that he could more easily beat Garcia at All In. Instead, we get the maximum effort 100% heel turn that was needed. I’m possibly forgetting a match? It was really lots of talk and angles with some long, mostly hot matches. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Good show overall. After a period of being stagnant and directionless, AEW is starting to pick up steam once again. If Page is on team AEW, I imagine him either turning or walking out a la Samoa Joe in the ROH/CZW cage match in 2006. Maybe it's just me but I always thought Mercedes was clearly a heel from the get-go. Part of me thinks they should have milked MJF going full heel for another week or two, but after re-watching it I think it was the right choice, especially if he gives the explanation someone mentioned about how whenever he tried to help someone, they ignored him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Page being in Blood and Guts could be played as one of those "But which side is he on?" things. Like both teams could name him as their fifth man and it would make sense. You look at The Elite, and you have the Bucks who fired Kenny to replace him with Okada, and then they suspended Hangman and replaced him with a younger, skinnier version in Jack Perry (although Hangman's era as the Elite's young prospect is obviously years behind him at this point, it is who he was when he joined the Bullet Club). Now they just need to find a substitute Cody... perhaps that's what Drew McIntyre's role would have been, had he not re-signed with WWE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 7 hours ago, Cliff Hanger said: My memory of it from 97-00 when I was really active was that there were a LOT of knife fights and this kind of poking, but I may just be getting senile in my 40s. Well, maybe. But it's at least as likely that I'm just looking at my youth through rose-coloured glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, HumanChessgame said: Good show overall. After a period of being stagnant and directionless, AEW is starting to pick up steam once again. If Page is on team AEW, I imagine him either turning or walking out a la Samoa Joe in the ROH/CZW cage match in 2006. Joe didn't walk out on Team ROH during Cage of Death, it was Danielson that did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, HumanChessgame said: If Page is on team AEW, I imagine him either turning or walking out a la Samoa Joe in the ROH/CZW cage match in 2006. 8 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: Joe didn't walk out on Team ROH during Cage of Death, it was Danielson that did. Team ROH vs. Team CZW Cage of Death at ROH Death Before Dishonour IV is my pick for the best match in ROH history. My 2006 MOTY. *****. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) I love Renee opening the broadcast with a rundown, but it'd be 10 fold better in the live arena. Can we get a set off to the side of the ramp or on the otherside of the building, please? And give Renee the match graphics to introduce as well. Death to distracting ADD graphics during the matches. The Garcia/MJF/Daddy Magic promo to begin was punchuated beautifully by Danny making such a lofty play on his mother's life. Total pro! Danielson v Pac was every bit as great as I imagined it could be. Loved Pac's elevated elbow drops. Danielson put a selling clinic on for all students of the game. Magic + Chess to close! Pac never wins the big one, but @DEAN taught us better than to care about such frivolous outcomes. The Willow promo that followed was completely on point. I loved her laying out why she smiles. So smart - further babyface connective tissue! No one better, but Mark is close. Speaking of which, the Briscoe promo and angle that followed was perfect for getting us all thinking about Blood n Guts. 'Who's gonna be in?' We all wanna know. I love shitheel Perry. I love Okada. I love Losing Streak O'Reilly. And then to the back for the Toni/Mariah promo - alotta talk, but no one's complaining when the pros give us the beatiful prose. I'll be sad to lose this pairing. Stat v Willow started strong with that awesome ramp rush and pounce, and it never relented. Love Willow. Love Stat. Tastes great, and refreshing! The Britt Baker promo was touching, she was understandbly nervous, but it was good. If I'm truly honest I wasn't so into the cliched motivational speech to close, but before I could bellyache, there was wonderful heel Mercedes mixing it up with the Jacksons. Perfect! The Mone-Baker confrontation was tremendous! Britt had the fire she needed and Mercedes' gots her groove. I love how excited everybody is for this, but let's keep expectations realistic. Promo-wise we should be good, but Mone's gonna need to do some heavy lifting in ring - she is clearly capable. Happy to have the Doctor back, but can we get the Rebel? The Callis/Ospreay/Fletcher promo was fantastic. Even if it defied the logic of the story told Sunday. It's Wrestling, a Dash of a Pass granted. I loved the Jericho promo. He still needs to reel this character in a smidge, but overjoyed with his continually use of 'That doesn't work for me, brother'. Great heel chicanery throwing Taz out. Love it! Joe/Hook/Shibata v the Jobbers of Agony was a good TV showcase. Give the Gates some credibility now. The angle that followed was rockin'! Bryan Keith is slowly becoming a star before our eyes. Give him time. Bill too. I unashamedly popped for the Fireball later on. Jarrett v Hanger was totally on point. I need an encore viewing after writing this. I'm not sure what I think of Hanger's new theme, but I certainly missed the giddyness his previous always provided me. What a nicely worked match. Even notorious Hanger Hater @MattD got down with this bout! How far can we run with babyface Colonel Sanders-Jarrett? He's gotta at least have one more Stampede in Calgary, yeah? Garcia v Ospreay closes this near perfect broadcast. Ospreay's acorbatics had me daydreaming him getting the call from Hollywood to take the torch from Jack Chan. I loved all the shenanigans to close. Matt Menard is a beautiful bleeder. MJF channelled some serious prime Franchise vibes there. It was like he was transported to 1995 shaking Gary Wolfe's halo clean off his shoulders. Easily his best use of the Avalanche Piledriver! Mia Wallace says 'Goddamn, Goddamn'. I can see the endless scroll from the King on this one. And closes with #AEWrulesTHEmotherFUCKINGuniverse. Edited July 5 by HarryArchieGus 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Lord Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I could see Page pulling a Sting from War Games 96 when he showed up, kicked everyone's ass and left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I like the alliance of Briscoe and KOR, but I don't like them being positioned as possible guys for Blood and Guts. There's just no natural heat with the Elite, no original-ness, and to be frank, no star power. The Elite already beat the FTR/Darby/Danielson team at Anarchy in the Arena, so you need better team than that for Blood and Guts, and Briscoe/KOR just don't fit the bill right now. The Acclaimed are at least originals and could use a rub like this to stay relevant, but the other 3 guys need to have some real firepower. Swerve is obvious, and Kenny should definitely be there if he's healthy. I could see a case for the 5th being Ricochet, Darby, or Hangman, but I'd pick Darby. He's a natural babyface who can sell choosing his loyalty to AEW over his feelings about Swerve, which highlights Hangman's personal failings for making the opposite choice and joining up with the Elite. Ricochet would have the instant gratification pop, but lacks the long-term story beats imo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 My guess is Hangman is the Elite's 5th if Swerve is Team AEW's 5th. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SovietShooter Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 21 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I mentioned this in the monthly thread but if ALL IN is looking like Swerve vs. Hangman 4 Toni Storm vs. Mariah May Mercedes Mone' vs. Dr. Britt Baker Will Ospreay vs. MJF That's a really strong start for the biggest show of the year... Is it ridiculous to think we may get a Ospreay vs Garcia vs MJF three way? Also, Mariah May vs Toni Storm seems to make sense for a storyline pov, but Willow winning the Women's title at Wembley makes a metric shit ton of sense too. 20 hours ago, Cobra Commander said: How many times can they do Swerve/Hangman before they have to put Hangman over? Unless they start going Dreamer/Raven where Page can never be at Swerve, then Hangman has to win the next one, and I think he will. I would love to see them in a good ol' fashioned cage match, but I am not seeing that happen in Wembley for logistical reasons, since it is outdoors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Outdoors you say? Exploding pool match 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SovietShooter Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Actually, now that you say that, I wonder if they would try something along the lines of an "exploding death match" between them, since it is outside? Maybe not an exploding ring like the failed Mox/Omega match, but more along the lines of the exploding barbwire boards and whatnot... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, SovietShooter said: Unless they start going Dreamer/Raven where Page can never beat Swerve, then Hangman has to win the next one And even then, Dreamer/Raven was a feud where the face could never quite beat the heel. Having a feud where the heel can never beat the face is booking the wrestling equivalent to Wil E Coyote and the Roadrunner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 31 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said: And even then, Dreamer/Raven was a feud where the face could never quite beat the heel. Having a feud where the heel can never beat the face is booking the wrestling equivalent to Wil E Coyote and the Roadrunner And the Coyote-Roadrunner feud was massively popular! You may be on to something here. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuntmanCrowley Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 In recent years, i started to think that Dreamer/Raven only worked because Dreamer was such a sympathetic babyface to the ECW crowd. It's one of the reasons that I thought Sami could've pulled it off with Drew when they had that period with Sami losing every match he faced Drew in. I can't see Hangman losing a 4th match to Swerve if that is indeed the title match, unless.....no, no....i won't fantasy book yet another way for me to get Omega/Hangman v Bucks 2, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I wasn't watching ECW but from the general outlines of stuff I remember happening, Dreamer and Raven also had other feuds that would go on during their longer feud so they weren't fighting for 2 1/2 years and doing nothing else, so their feud would go to the backburner and then resume later on and so on 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 There’s no way Hangman would lose again. I can’t express how much I’m looking forward to this Hangman heel/tweener run. Basically a Hanger driven by absolute hate for Swerve to do things he doesn’t want to do, like joining the EVP side for B&G, shunning all friends to do everything for himself and the livelihood of his family, etc. Basically a modern day DTA Hangman Page. Given enough time, he’s going to be a bigger face than he was before. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I don't think those two should face each other again for a long time. It should just fester and fester and when time comes, there's no match, Hangman just kills him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 hours ago, Cobra Commander said: And even then, Dreamer/Raven was a feud where the face could never quite beat the heel. Having a feud where the heel can never beat the face is booking the wrestling equivalent to Wil E Coyote and the Roadrunner If you think about it: Wil E Coyote was such a great heel he was able to constantly get jobbed out and still keep his heat. A fun little known fact is that early in their feud ECW ran a house show and one of the main attractions couldn't make it so Dreamer beat Raven clean as when a big no show happens the face always wins the main event to make up for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) They could have used a Dusty finish. That might be hard considering there's no rules in ECW though. Edited July 5 by Curt McGirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuntmanCrowley Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 hours ago, Craig H said: There’s no way Hangman would lose again. I can’t express how much I’m looking forward to this Hangman heel/tweener run. Basically a Hanger driven by absolute hate for Swerve to do things he doesn’t want to do, like joining the EVP side for B&G, shunning all friends to do everything for himself and the livelihood of his family, etc. Basically a modern day DTA Hangman Page. Given enough time, he’s going to be a bigger face than he was before. 100% behind this run of his and honestly it's the most interesting Page has been since his chase for the belt and he's only been back for one match/backstage segment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcellenceofAirPollution Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 20 hours ago, Go2Sleep said: I like the alliance of Briscoe and KOR, but I don't like them being positioned as possible guys for Blood and Guts. There's just no natural heat with the Elite, no original-ness, and to be frank, no star power. The Elite already beat the FTR/Darby/Danielson team at Anarchy in the Arena, so you need better team than that for Blood and Guts, and Briscoe/KOR just don't fit the bill right now. The Acclaimed are at least originals and could use a rub like this to stay relevant, but the other 3 guys need to have some real firepower. Swerve is obvious, and Kenny should definitely be there if he's healthy. I could see a case for the 5th being Ricochet, Darby, or Hangman, but I'd pick Darby. He's a natural babyface who can sell choosing his loyalty to AEW over his feelings about Swerve, which highlights Hangman's personal failings for making the opposite choice and joining up with the Elite. Ricochet would have the instant gratification pop, but lacks the long-term story beats imo. The Elite probably aren't losing Blood and Guts when they're at fully formed full strength. The natural leader of the Team AEW that takes them down at some point is Kenny, but Kenny ain't here. This is a lesser Team AEW that will put up a hell of a fight, full of great underdog babyfaces. Personally I think it's a good use of Briscoe and KOR who have been getting more over by the week lately, and to re-elevate Acclaimed who I'm thinking are winning the tag titles at Wembley It kind of gives me nWo vibes and I'm guessing that's what they're going for, where they ran through most of WCW before......well, they fucked up the story......but 96/97 where midcarders were valiantly fighting against the odds worked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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