SirSmUgly Posted July 22 Posted July 22 22 hours ago, SirSmUgly said: Shane's like the glue guy, not the guy who compels me. 20 hours ago, caley said: He was, to use a sports metaphor, maybe more of a "glue guy" who kept things together but even when he was the star, he never really "starred". 22 hours ago, SirSmUgly said: He's sort of like late-stage WCW Jarrett. Or TNA Jarrett. 16 hours ago, SovietShooter said: Honestly, I think Shane Douglas, as a worker, is a lot like Jeff Jarrett. I think it's obvious from these posts that I have genius ideas about wrestling am not as dumb as any of us thought about wrestling. 13 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said: Counerpoint: " Perfect Strangers" is one of best entrance songs of all time, and the Triple Threat of Douglas, Bigelow, and Candido w/ Francine were fucking awesome. No counterpoint needed, sir. I think Shane's an important part of ECW's story. I just said that his ECW run puts him in a space that leaves him less likely to be fondly remembered. It's not necessarily him, but all the acts around him that people tend to remember as more dynamic, while Shane is the steady heel anchor for the promotion (an important role, to be sure). 2
Technico Support Posted July 22 Posted July 22 13 hours ago, HumanChessgame said: Wasn't he working as a manager at a Target at one point? So you’re saying he’s better than the Young Bucks. 1 2 5
mystman Posted July 22 Posted July 22 15 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said: " Perfect Strangers" is one of best entrance songs of all time I literally forgot that was the title of the song Douglas used and thought you were talking about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnqBNZYg524 1 2
Brandon Bones Posted July 22 Posted July 22 (edited) 32 minutes ago, mystman said: I literally forgot that was the title of the song Douglas used and thought you were talking about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnqBNZYg524 I haven’t clicked the link and I already KNOW! Edited July 22 by Brandon Bones Yep. It was everything I thought it would be. 😃 1 2
J.H. Posted July 22 Posted July 22 No Douglas was a full on face by the time he left. He was teaming with Dreamer, feeding with the Impact Players... I can't even recall a turn. He was just suddenly getting cheered. James
RazorbladeKiss87 Posted July 22 Posted July 22 1 hour ago, mystman said: I literally forgot that was the title of the song Douglas used and thought you were talking about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnqBNZYg524 When I was a kid first hearing about ECW, I didn't know classic rock well and only read things online about the promotion so I literally thought he came out to that. 1
Brandon Bones Posted July 22 Posted July 22 I wonder how differently Douglas would be remembered if the largest part of his run as ECW Champion wasn’t spent injured in the announce booth. If he was feuding and pulling heel bullshit with his established faction during that same length of time and still find his way to Tazz. Yeah. Probably a lot better.
zendragon Posted July 22 Posted July 22 20 hours ago, SovietShooter said: Honestly, I think Shane Douglas, as a worker, is a lot like Jeff Jarrett. He is a guy that is going to go out there and have a good match with almost anyone, but was missing a certain something to be a bonafide main event guy for a major national touring promotion. Like, go back to his WCW run alongside Steamboat, working teams like the Hollywood Blondes... was he stinking up the joint, or were those matches actually good? Look at his ECW runs, he was actually having solid wrestling matches (often with stiffs) while everything around him was "hardcore" and "extreme". He was a very good worker. The Jarrett comparison is very apt, and I can see why Heyman would want some solid and dependable as his ace post NWA pull out. However I think that its ultimately hard to build a promotion around a "good match, solid hand" guy
J.H. Posted July 22 Posted July 22 39 minutes ago, zendragon said: The Jarrett comparison is very apt, and I can see why Heyman would want some solid and dependable as his ace post NWA pull out. However I think that its ultimately hard to build a promotion around a "good match, solid hand" guy "Good match, Solid hand" pretty much describes Bret Hart doesn't it? Or is there a bit more to Bret than that? I ask this as a guy who loves Bret Hart and thinks he is well above Ahane Douglas James
zendragon Posted July 22 Posted July 22 (edited) I think Bret had a lot more of the intangibles of having an "it" factor than Douglas or Jarrett (and I think his status as a solid international draw backs this up). I also think Bret had a better look and grasp of his character than either of those guys. Now the one thing that would keep Bret off my personal mount Rushmore would be he never really was that much of money drawing promo. But I'd take him cutting promo's on the lack of a competent US healthcare system and gun control policy over "slapnuts" and "Dick Flair" Edited July 22 by zendragon 3
BloodyChamp Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Old man Bret Hart promos are something we were robbed of. They could have been gold and they could have been enough to get him through a big postprime the size of The Iron Sheik’s. Kermit the Frog is another dark horse GOAT straight man. Hank Hill also. They were both funny but never funny on purpose and they rarely knew they were being funny. Shane Douglas had nuclear heat at the time. People wanted to see what he was going to do and say next, more importantly say because the limits he pushed on the mic were serious then even if they’ve since been blown away. The quality of his matches almost didn’t matter because people just wanted to see what was going to happen next. It was pretty wild watching all that fresh however mild it seems now. I don’t know where that leaves his legacy because I don’t have the full story on a bunch of other things he was in the middle of but that was him in ECW and what made him such a big deal IMO. 2
odessasteps Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Of the three, I don't think Jeff is a Mark for himself the way the other two are/were. 1
SirSmUgly Posted July 22 Posted July 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, J.H. said: "Good match, Solid hand" pretty much describes Bret Hart doesn't it? Or is there a bit more to Bret than that? I ask this as a guy who loves Bret Hart and thinks he is well above Ahane Douglas James I think Bret is an exponentially better babyface than either of those guys because he's truly exceptional at fighting from underneath, and I'm not sure either of them touched his 1997/98 heel run (though they've both had excellent heel runs themselves). Bret is fairly well-considered an iffy promo, but if you asked me if he was better at promos than Shane Douglas or Jeff Jarrett, I'd have to think about it. Again, not to say that Shane or Jarrett are bad or have never done great promos, but they all seem spotty to me in terms of their promoing ability. I also think that "good match, solid hand" is maybe underselling anyone who is able to headline for a major company, or even a company on the rung right behind major, like ECW in the mid-'90s. In the context of every pro wrestler that's ever lived, all three are upper-level talents. It's like shitting on Brian Scalabrine for being a scrub in the NBA when he was one of the four hundred best basketball players in the world at the time, you know? And I criticize myself for calling Douglas "solid" without contextualizing what I mean by that, too. Edited July 22 by SirSmUgly 3
SovietShooter Posted July 22 Posted July 22 2 hours ago, J.H. said: I can't even recall a turn. He was just suddenly getting cheered. 1
Cobra Commander Posted July 22 Posted July 22 I think Shane was at least getting cheered, if he wasn't a face, at times in mid-94 and maybe early 96, both of which led to heel turns also, he kept using the Belly to Belly as a finish way longer than most people his size would have used that as a finishing move
Technico Support Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Post heel turn late 90s Bret promos murders anything Douglas ever did on the mic. 6
SirSmUgly Posted July 22 Posted July 22 32 minutes ago, Technico Support said: Post heel turn late 90s Bret promos murders anything Douglas ever did on the mic. Even more than the promos, the Hitman cutting a searing look of pure hatred at the crowd while hugging Owen after making up with him is one of the best things I've ever seen in wrestling, full stop. It's tremendous. 11
DreamBroken Posted July 23 Posted July 23 Catching up on this thread, just wanted to co-sign any Franchise love. One of my all time ECW favs, loved his title reigns especially the last. the Bigelow win, brief rivalry with Rude, the Al Snow wrestlepalooza match, being pissed when Candido turned on him in the end, etc. And a definite agreed on Perfect Strangers entrance theme, all time great. I'd check out any indy still booking the Franchise. 2
odessasteps Posted July 23 Posted July 23 From Dustin’s social media Quote Please stop using the term "Jobber". It is extremely disrespectful to everyone who is putting their bodies on the line each week. All of us are "Enhancement Talent". We enhance each others careers. Show compassion to everyone that steps in this business and works hard enhancing others. #KeepSteppin 4
zendragon Posted July 23 Posted July 23 10 hours ago, SirSmUgly said: I think Bret is an exponentially better babyface than either of those guys because he's truly exceptional at fighting from underneath, and I'm not sure either of them touched his 1997/98 heel run (though they've both had excellent heel runs themselves). Bret is fairly well-considered an iffy promo, but if you asked me if he was better at promos than Shane Douglas or Jeff Jarrett, I'd have to think about it. Again, not to say that Shane or Jarrett are bad or have never done great promos, but they all seem spotty to me in terms of their promoing ability. I also think that "good match, solid hand" is maybe underselling anyone who is able to headline for a major company, or even a company on the rung right behind major, like ECW in the mid-'90s. In the context of every pro wrestler that's ever lived, all three are upper-level talents. It's like shitting on Brian Scalabrine for being a scrub in the NBA when he was one of the four hundred best basketball players in the world at the time, you know? And I criticize myself for calling Douglas "solid" without contextualizing what I mean by that, too. How much did Douglas headline though? In hind sight with the exception of the Night the line was crossed it seems RVD, Taz, Sabu, Raven and The Sandman where more of a focal point of the company
Log Posted July 23 Posted July 23 8 hours ago, odessasteps said: From Dustin’s social media Everyone knows that “wimpy” is the preferred nomenclature. 2
HarryArchieGus Posted July 23 Posted July 23 13 hours ago, Technico Support said: Post heel turn late 90s Bret promos murders anything Douglas ever did on the mic. A monumental era for the Hitman. M'm'murder? Shane Douglas had an incredible ECW run. WWE has already done a fine job of discrediting his legacy. No need to further pretend he wasn't a captivating heel promo and Heat Machine like no other. 9 hours ago, DreamBroken said: Catching up on this thread, just wanted to co-sign any Franchise love. One of my all time ECW favs, loved his title reigns especially the last. the Bigelow win, brief rivalry with Rude, the Al Snow wrestlepalooza match, being pissed when Candido turned on him in the end, etc. And a definite agreed on Perfect Strangers entrance theme, all time great. I'd check out any indy still booking the Franchise. Interesting you mention the Snow match. I can't speak to the actual match, but I loved the triumphant stills package on the weekly TV. And the build to that match. I'm with you on all those Franchise memories and Perfect Strangers (perfect). One of my favorite Franchise memories is his involvement in: Raven v Dreamer-Loser Leaves/Lawler debut/Taz v Sabu/Taz v Douglas (Wrestlepalooza 97). A lot of moving parts in a heavenly bit of pro wrestling. 14 hours ago, SovietShooter said: 17 hours ago, J.H. said: No Douglas was a full on face by the time he left. He was teaming with Dreamer, feeding with the Impact Players... I can't even recall a turn. He was just suddenly getting cheered. James The turn was based on Douglas earning Taz's respect during the World title change. They were also teasing Shane's retirement. Knowing what he'd be up to next, it's a goddamn shame his revitalization and babyface ECW run had to end here. 1
JLowe Posted July 23 Posted July 23 2 hours ago, Log said: Everyone knows that “wimpy” is the preferred nomenclature. From what I remember, in the 80s we called them “scrubs” 1
Mister TV Posted July 23 Posted July 23 17 minutes ago, JLowe said: From what I remember, in the 80s we called them “scrubs” Thanks to Bobby Heenan they'll always be "ham-n-eggers" to me. 7 1
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