Tromatagon Posted June 18 Posted June 18 I want to go on the record and say I thought the Wyatt Sicks segment was fucking cool but their name is horrible. It autocorrects to Wyatt Sucks. 2 1
Eivion Posted June 18 Posted June 18 1 hour ago, Craig H said: Other than what everyone has discussed my main problem with Raw is that it’s still too fucking long. This. Raw is something I always struggle to call good even when most of it delivers because the length is just draining. Even watching via DVR its impossible not to feel the time. 3
Dolfan in NYC Posted June 18 Author Posted June 18 Tragic News.... Drew McIntyre has deleted his Twitter account. 1 2
Phantom Lord Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Last night was a great episode of RAW. Possibly one of the best this year so far. It was fun waiting for the Wyatt's to show up because all during the night people on twitter were convinced Uncle Howdy was standing in the background of the mezzanine because there was this shadowy figure there all night. I loved the presentation and everything about how it was done. I'm glad Vince is gone because you know for the longest time he was probably like "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SHIT SUPPOSED TO BE". Now I hope next week guys like Gable are nowhere to be seen after what happened. Overall a great show capped off by an amazing debut. 2 1
hammerva Posted June 19 Posted June 19 He might believe in the power of a big booty but HBK does not believe in Joe Hendry apparently 1
Ramo2653 Posted June 19 Posted June 19 Fallon got new gear and dropped the towel! Still the same music which is probably a bit too upbeat for a heel. Nice to see Kaz in the battle royale. And yeah, they got something with Evans.
Cobra Commander Posted June 19 Posted June 19 after tonight, what's the estimated overlap between the NXT and TNA live audiences these days? I'm sure this comparison has been made by people online but NXT really might be the Impact Zone of the 2020s Now if they bring in the Six Sided Ring... then
odessasteps Posted June 19 Posted June 19 I didn’t realize that TNA was negotiating to move to taping at Full Sail.
Cliff Hanger Posted June 19 Posted June 19 --Hendry gets the biggest pop the NXT Arena has seen since Undertaker last August, and goes out in 90 seconds. I cracked up at the bullshit chant. Decent battle royale over all. --I never want to see the "everyone hangs out in the women's locker room gossiping and recapping exposition only to collapse into a swarm of bickering" segment again. There has to be a better way! --don't lick that thing, Jacy. You don't know where Cody kept it for the last decade. Still think Lola/Roxy could be pretty good, and I like that Perez isn't afraid to make it weird as "paranoid champ" works so much better this way. --looking forward to Wes v Oba with Wes out of the picture if he loses, that stip is easy to use in heightening the drama. --sad to see them pushing Nathan and Axiom toward a seeming breakup. --Tavion had been a face on LVLUP, so this is the second week in a row with a super casual heel turn that Vic and Booker don't bother to mention --Kelani/Michin was fun as hell. Kelani's gonna make it. --Carlee is still pretty green but she has potential. I was surprised to see Kendal come out as her second since last week on LVLUP she switched from a costume that complemented Carlee's to new black gear. I still maintain that if she can find a voice, Kendal has more upside since there aren't really any other women in WWE who work an amateur style. --that hype video for Izzi did more for her as a personality than anything she's ever done, right up til she says "NARPs," which is clearly something someone wants to make A Thing and now she's gonna have to say it in every promo. You can tell, because as she explained what it stood for, it appeared on screen. Also "Grand Dame" would work SO much better than "Great Dame" --the double Bouncy Cutter was simultaneously pretty silly and rad as fuck. Solid main. --dammit, I meant to get on Discord but got busy catching up on a massive church scandal near my family (not their church) 2
ChesterCopperpot Posted June 19 Posted June 19 56 minutes ago, hammerva said: He might believe in the power of a big booty but HBK does not believe in Joe Hendry apparently Methinks we'll be seeing more of Hendry on TV https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1803220050943369471 1
TheVileOne Posted June 19 Posted June 19 6 hours ago, Phantom Lord said: Last night was a great episode of RAW. Possibly one of the best this year so far. It was fun waiting for the Wyatt's to show up because all during the night people on twitter were convinced Uncle Howdy was standing in the background of the mezzanine because there was this shadowy figure there all night. I loved the presentation and everything about how it was done. I'm glad Vince is gone because you know for the longest time he was probably like "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SHIT SUPPOSED TO BE". Now I hope next week guys like Gable are nowhere to be seen after what happened. Overall a great show capped off by an amazing debut. https://x.com/BRONSONISHERE/status/1802911038960275731 Bronson Reed wins by default on account of his opponents got murdered last night. 1
username Posted June 19 Posted June 19 Re: Gable's use on Raw... my gut feeling is that there is a reason he was the one backstage victim they made 100% sure to get a clear shot of. I would not be shocked if he uses this as a "I was there for you Alpha Academy guys when you were at your lowest, where were you when I needed help?" guilt trip to sucker them back in. I've also watched enough WWE over the years to recognize a "just lost a title program and are a few steps away from your next push taking effect (in this case joining up with the Creeds) so you can eat a solid loss or two now" deal, I am pretty sure he's gonna be fine. ...I mean, assuming he is still alive and that wasn't his corpse >_> 2
Kevin Wilson Posted June 19 Posted June 19 I was a big fan of Bray in general, as I like weird characters and outside the box shit. But for those offended, the reason some fans are immediately like "this isn't going to work" is the cinematic spooky killer faction hasn't worked in WWE in 5+ years and honestly even outside WWE is extremely hard to pull off. For a few reasons. First, its hard to have both on the same show. Its difficult to structure an event where one minute Chelsea Green is complaining about management in the back and the next minute two people are dead in Gorilla. Wrestling is mysterious but its a huge gap between "Adam Pearce can't control Bron" (normal storyline) and "people are running around the back murdering people" (not normal storyline). And to somehow combine it onto the same show, they had the problem with Bray's gimmick post-original stable and the same problem persists. The other issue is once the bell rings, in the end these guys are normal wrestlers. So either they have normal matches and its weird that one minute they are leaving people bloody and the next are doing Irish Whips, or they go full Fiend and they are invincible and spit black goo and use giant hammers and its even more weird. Its just really, really hard to pull off and again this isn't WWE-specific but something all promotions struggle with. Lucha Underground arguably did it best but they were a niche bizzaro world show where their entire vibe was spooky weird so it usually worked. As a fan, I am hoping it works and somehow HHH figures out something Vince couldn't but I don't think fans that are skeptical are coming from a place of just being a "hater" but just looking at past history and not being optimistic. 3
Eivion Posted June 19 Posted June 19 (edited) I actually missed Raw last night because our TV company fucked up. Waited to catch the Hulu version today. Its pretty condensed at half the length of a normal Raw. Dug what i caught of the matches, particularly the MITB qualifiers and Bron/Sheamus. The Priest/Seth segment was actually solid and I liked them just pushing forward to an agreed title match with no bs. The Liv/Dom hijinks were amusing. Was happy to see Otis finally turn on gable though it doesn't quite feel full stop yet. Hopefully they don't backtrack too much. Gable/Creeds as IC & tag champs needs to be the endgame. The final segment with the Wyatt Sicks/6 debut was done well though maybe a bit too far in terms of murdery. The biggest issue Bray ran into with the Fiend and even the Mr. Rogers-eque gimmicks were that they went way too far down the supernatural rabbit hole. Hopefully this is more of an extra creepy Wyatt family than anything else. Now onto NXT with my tv working properly today. The Battle Royal was solid fun. Only complaint was Joe Hendry's elimination. That really should have been saved for later in the match for an actual heel. Roxanne/Lola vs. Jacy/Jazmyn vs. Lash/Jakara was pretty solid. Action was nice with some neat chaotic moments and everyone having a bit of shine as it went on. The post match celebration felt right with Roxanne getting a shot in early as Lola has already proven herself an untrustworthy partner in the recent past. Lola even smirked knowing she has Roxanne's attention. Kelani/Mia was pretty nice with both women showing solid chemistry and looking good in general. The finish with Jaida's appearance was predictable but well done. The Wes/Oba segment was alright. Just glad we finally have a single smatch set up between them. Could easily end up Oba's best match yet. Should be a nice test for him regardless. Fallon/Carlee was fine. Still not digging Carlee though there is nothing wrong with her per say. Liking Fallon as a heel though I wish she would go the next step and change her music as well. I'm ok with Wendy Choo randomly popping up and choking people to sleep. Good Brothers vs. Chase/Ridge was decent. The finish was a surprise. I liked the follow up backstage with Duke revealing nothing. Curious to see where they go with it. Thought the setup Page/Evans earlier was good, and the match itself was good as well. Dug all the back work Page busted out knowing Evans' ribs were fucked up. The post match brawl was alright though it seems to be setting up more of a 4-way than the the currently booked Trick/Je'Von. Most of the matches tonight were solid with the 3-way tag, Kelani/Mia, and Page/Evans being standouts. Enjoyed many f the segments and thought they moved a lot of stories forward. Next week looks like fun with Arianna/Sol, Tavion/Damon, and Tony/Nathan set up. Also its been interesting seeing more TNA involvement. Looking more and more like that rumored crossover show between NXT and TNA may actually become a thing. Pretty solid episode overall. Edited June 19 by Eivion 4
Ziggy Posted June 19 Posted June 19 12 hours ago, madl said: Watched the Wyatt Sicks segment and, yep, I’m good for a couple years. Was never a fan of Bray’s and the spookier they get with the gimmicks, the less interested I am. We’re supposed to think the Wyatt’s murdered half the roste?. So I guess the next ppv will be filled with zombies. Meltzer thinks Jey is somehow aligned with the group. That… would be monumentally stupid considering how over he is. Bray was never a good worker, outside of being carried to a good match with someone like Bryan. The original run with the Wyatt Family gave us some really good 6-mans because Rowan and Harper were a really good team. Harper was really good and Rowan developed into a really good worker by the time they got called up. The Wyatt 6 has Cross ,Gracey who are good workers I believe and Rowan as I said is a good worker. I haven't seen much of Lumis and Bo was boring to me. I can see that gimmick really making it difficult to for them to have exciting matches especially if they to be over performative and cinamatic. The thing with the Fiend gimmick that hurt his matches was that they made him too Super Natural. I don't know if it was his call or Vinces. It was ridiculous how all of a Sudden he reached this Supernatural status after being on the roster for almost a decade at that point. It will be interesting to see what Hunter wants out of these guys as far as bell to bell. I don't know how good or limited a guy like Lumis is but a gimmick like this is something you put on some who isn't good. You have a few people in it that can go. I'm a fan of Cross and she's been in a few different things that haven't really gotten over on the main roster but that's because Vince didn't know what to do with her. She did well with the Super hero thing from what I did see so I hope this works out for her. It's a cool tribute to Bray but this type of thing has a shelf life. You have to be as talented and committed like The Undertaker to get something like that over and last. Even he suffered through alot of terrible booking and feuds most people under that gimmick would never come back from.
Eivion Posted June 19 Posted June 19 2 hours ago, Ziggy said: I haven't seen much of Lumis Lumis is surprisingly solid, almostly sneakily good. Bo really is the worst guy in the group, and we have no idea where he is at having not wrestled in 3-5 years.
EVA Posted June 19 Posted June 19 7 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said: I was a big fan of Bray in general, as I like weird characters and outside the box shit. But for those offended, the reason some fans are immediately like "this isn't going to work" is the cinematic spooky killer faction hasn't worked in WWE in 5+ years and honestly even outside WWE is extremely hard to pull off. For a few reasons. First, its hard to have both on the same show. Its difficult to structure an event where one minute Chelsea Green is complaining about management in the back and the next minute two people are dead in Gorilla. Wrestling is mysterious but its a huge gap between "Adam Pearce can't control Bron" (normal storyline) and "people are running around the back murdering people" (not normal storyline). And to somehow combine it onto the same show, they had the problem with Bray's gimmick post-original stable and the same problem persists. The other issue is once the bell rings, in the end these guys are normal wrestlers. So either they have normal matches and its weird that one minute they are leaving people bloody and the next are doing Irish Whips, or they go full Fiend and they are invincible and spit black goo and use giant hammers and its even more weird. Its just really, really hard to pull off and again this isn't WWE-specific but something all promotions struggle with. Lucha Underground arguably did it best but they were a niche bizzaro world show where their entire vibe was spooky weird so it usually worked. As a fan, I am hoping it works and somehow HHH figures out something Vince couldn't but I don't think fans that are skeptical are coming from a place of just being a "hater" but just looking at past history and not being optimistic. You’re all over this. I feel like every introduction of a new Bray concept has followed the pattern of an intriguing build-up, a killer debut angle, and then a slow descent into dogshit over the course of 3-6 months. For exactly all the reasons you’re talking about: with the exception of the original, more grounded version of the Wyatt Family, these concepts are just NOT sustainable on a pro wrestling show. And it’s certainly not going to help that, with the exception of Nikki (who is the person least likely to be given much ring time), this group is composed of okay-and-maybe-kinda-bad wrestlers. Not much of interest is going to happen when the bell finally rings. 2
DMJ Posted June 19 Posted June 19 56 minutes ago, EVA said: And it’s certainly not going to help that, with the exception of Nikki (who is the person least likely to be given much ring time), this group is composed of okay-and-maybe-kinda-bad wrestlers. Not much of interest is going to happen when the bell finally rings. Yup. Nikki is the best worker of the bunch and by at least a few country miles, based on what I've seen. Watching many of those six-mans and tag matches semi-recently (cheap plug: Kwang The Blog), Luke Harper was very obviously the best in-ring performer and really seemed to set the tone in many of those matches by mixing wrestling holds (a side headlock here, a suplex there) with moves that a big, "untrained" bully might do (clotheslines, big kicks, running full speed and launching yourself at someone, lifting a guy up and just dropping him face-first on the ground). He made it work early on so, years later, when he eventually got somewhat of a singles run, you could also believe that he'd "adapted" and added more moves to his arsenal based on his years in the ring (even if you took the gimmick literally and believed his literal debut was as a member of the Family). It takes a really special worker to make that possible. Rowan could be that guy now maybe (?), but, honestly, I haven't seen any of his matches since his last WWE run. Sometimes big men, like Rowan, like Taker, like Mark Henry, get sneakily good over time as they become more well-rounded. If there is one guy that is going to have to do the heavy lifting in the ring, I think it'll be him and probably Bo, but I'm not sure Bo is even going to be featured in-ring as much as he will be the "mouthpiece." The other ex-NXT guys are seemingly being inserted to round out the cast, but if this flops, will be able to re-painted again anyway with few being the wiser. For Rowan, though, this seems like make it-or-break it time and I'm hoping he really shines here. That being said, I've got admittedly low expectations as I've always found that the Wyatt gimmick follows the pattern others have already described: good hype, ultra-cool debut, amazing entrances, matches of extremely varying quality, bloom leaves the rose, needs repackaging. Repeat.
John E. Dynamite Posted June 19 Posted June 19 (edited) This is the conversation I had with friends. "Who's supposed to be the workhorse?". The answer seems to be Lumis of all people, but I have to ask the question: what's the best singles match any member of this faction has had? Nikki Cross vs. Asuka seven years ago in NXT (or ten years ago in SHIMMER)? Bo Dallas vs. Sami Zayn in 2013? A forgotten Joe Gacy CZW match? The fact that this faction is so workrate-deficient on paper is one thing, but it's compounded by the fact that the Bloodline 2.0 has an identical problem. I know the prevailing sentiment amongst young internet WWE diehards is that good matches are for less-profitable companies and that WWE is all about "cinema", but there isn't a single person in Wyatt Sick6 who's current in-ring ceiling is higher than peak Bray, much less Brodie. Edited June 19 by John E. Dynamite
blitzkrieg Posted June 19 Posted June 19 45 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said: The fact that this faction is so workrate-deficient on paper is one thing, but it's compounded by the fact that the Bloodline 2.0 has an identical problem. I know the prevailing sentiment amongst young internet WWE diehards is that good matches are for less-profitable companies and that WWE is all about "cinema", but there isn't a single person in Wyatt Sick6 who's current in-ring ceiling is higher than peak Bray, much less Brodie. I don't think the idea that wrestling can be entertaining without matches being "quality" is simply a "young internet WWE diehards" mindset.
Eivion Posted June 19 Posted June 19 Nikki is solid but overrated. She is better than Bray ever really was and has probably had the best singles match out of the group and even the Wyatts. That match with Asuka is a top 10 (maybe 5) women's match in WWE. Still, its more of an outlier than a norm for her like the Bryan match was with Bray. She has never come close to that again. Rowan is a good tag guy and solid singles. He kept things grounded and was the power of his team with Harper/Brodie. He likely won't wow, but unless he has deteriorated physically he should hold up his end in matches. Gacey and Lumis are both solid, but like Rowan will rarely wow anyone. The most questionable factor really is Bo. Honestly, the group is in a better place than the original Wyatts. Its more that they lack a star worker like Harper was for that group. I think that is alright as I doubt this is a group anyone is looking for great matches from. Most of their stuff should be brawls anyways and that is honestly probably what they will be best at. 1
DJ Hero Morganti Posted June 19 Posted June 19 Honestly, it's gonna be on the agents/producers to get the best out of the spectacle. I don't expect the Sicks to ever have a match that gets past charming uniquity very often. But that's also not really their role. The intro was cool as shit though
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