DECEMBER WRESTLING CHIT CHAT

[Lacelle]

Could we get a wrestling business thread for the people who only want to talk about business and ratings can stay away from the actual wrestling talk?

[Cristobal]

What Lacelle said. It'd also be good if we used the promo threads as the only place on the board to talk about promos. Promos don't interest me, and it's much easier for everyone else to have conversations I'm not into in different threads rather than for me to just scroll past them.

[Bustronaut]

What would be left to talk about in the omnibus thread? Punk's love life?

[Lacelle]

I dunno, the stuff that happens in the ring, you guys come across like you'd be better suited for TMZ or Observer with your lack of discussion of the matches. It's just incredibly tedious to read. Ratings and buyrates and talk of networks christ, what happened to discussing Barry Windham being awesome during the first half of 93 or about who is better between Lazzy Z & Paul Orndorff? That would be quality discussion for a y'know, wrestling board. Instead you guys are junior econimists without the humour.

[Cobra Commander]

don't we have threads to discuss the matches anyways? in the WWE forum?

[Phantom Lord]

I dunno, the stuff that happens in the ring, you guys come across like you'd be better suited for TMZ or Observer with your lack of discussion of the matches. It's just incredibly tedious to read. Ratings and buyrates and talk of networks christ, what happened to discussing Barry Windham being awesome during the first half of 93 or about who is better between Lazzy Z & Paul Orndorff? That would be quality discussion for a y'know, wrestling board. Instead you guys are junior econimists without the humour.

 

Okay, I'll go with Larry is a better wrestler than Paul Orndorf, but Paul was a way more sucessful one. Orndorf had to of made ten times feuding with Hogan then what Larry did feuding with Bruno. Of course he sank it all into a bowling alley so advantage Larryland.

[SirSmUgly]

I'm watching Dean Malenko and Rey Misterio kill one another on the Nitro from 12/31/96 right now. I would like to make the case that Malenko was one of WCW's MVPs for 1996-1997. Someone else here mentioned that he was sort of the bridge between the typical U.S. wrestling viewer and cruisers from Mexico/juniors from Japan, and not only do I love and agree with that argument, but the clash of styles always makes for an interesting match. I like the current WWE style, but I miss two guys with totally different styles mixing it up, and Malenko might be the last great example of a guy who excelled at that sort of "clash of styles" wrestling in the Big Two companies. 

 

What do you all think is the best Malenko match of that '96-97 period? What about the best cruiserweight match overall during that time period? I'm pretty partial to the Malenko/Misterio Havoc '96 match, and of course Eddie/Rey from Havoc '97 is up there too. 

 

Also, I find that people over-exaggerate DDP getting a push because he was close to Eric Bischoff. DDP got himself over through that whole "lost everything to Johnny B. Badd" storyline and the fans already gave a shit about him before he got into it with Hall/Nash/the nWo. He was never overpushed relative to how the crowd received him.

 

One final note: Is it a guilty pleasure to really enjoy '95 - '97 Lex Luger? His whole thing where it was OBVIOUS that he was a dick, but Sting couldn't see it was great, and he had solid matches on PPV with The Giant and some good tag matches as part of that team with Sting. Plus he has so many randomly awesome moments like winning the title on Nitro in '97 and racking Roadblock after three tries on a random Nitro in '96 (I think). I like Lex Luger more than probably 95% of the internet population anyway, though, so it could just be me on that one. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I'd like to see Smackdown return as a WCW Saturday Night tribute. They'll love the whole retro/throwback/buzzword setting/production values. Have Dusty on commentary screaming about the MUTHASHIP every few minutes. One hour show, interviews, squash matches, hijinx, Kofi Kingston gets his face rubbed into the concrete every few weeks or so.

[cwoy2j]

 

They'll love the whole retro/throwback/buzzword setting/production values. Have Dusty on commentary screaming about the MUTHASHIP every few minutes.

 

JBL drops references to the pay windah every now and then doesn't he?

[Niners Fan in CT]

I dunno, the stuff that happens in the ring, you guys come across like you'd be better suited for TMZ or Observer with your lack of discussion of the matches. It's just incredibly tedious to read. Ratings and buyrates and talk of networks christ, what happened to discussing Barry Windham being awesome during the first half of 93 or about who is better between Lazzy Z & Paul Orndorff? That would be quality discussion for a y'know, wrestling board. Instead you guys are junior econimists without the humour.

 

We have a WCW C-show Thread in...this very forum...and it's over four pages in less than a day.

 

Come oooonnnnnn Maaaaaaannn...

[HumanChessgame]

I'd like to see Smackdown return as a WCW Saturday Night tribute. They'll love the whole retro/throwback/buzzword setting/production values. Have Dusty on commentary screaming about the MUTHASHIP every few minutes. One hour show, interviews, squash matches, hijinx, Kofi Kingston gets his face rubbed into the concrete every few weeks or so.

 

The only thing wrong with this is that they don't have WCW's crazy roster variation in order to have WAR-esque random matches.

[BEN!]

Young Justice wasn't cancelled because it appealed to girls.  It was cancelled because it was placed in a weekend morning time slot where it was aimed at young boys and the ads were sold accordingly and it drew mainly men and women over 25 instead.  Also, it was really expensive to produce.

 

And speaking of cartoons, WWE's new cartoon series, Slam City is supposed to debut as part of the Royal Rumble PPV.  The wrestlers all live in Slam City and have real jobs, Cena is a mechanic, Punk is an ice cream man, and the main villain is The Finisher, who must be an evil banker judging from the toy.  He actually looks more like Corporate Kane than Corporate Kane does.  Total Super Hero Showdown ripoff but still looks a lot better than that other cartoon where the wrestlers were kids and Vince McMahon is their camp counselor.

[Lacelle]

I dunno, the stuff that happens in the ring, you guys come across like you'd be better suited for TMZ or Observer with your lack of discussion of the matches. It's just incredibly tedious to read. Ratings and buyrates and talk of networks christ, what happened to discussing Barry Windham being awesome during the first half of 93 or about who is better between Lazzy Z & Paul Orndorff? That would be quality discussion for a y'know, wrestling board. Instead you guys are junior econimists without the humour.

We have a WCW C-show Thread in...this very forum...and it's over four pages in less than a day.

Come oooonnnnnn Maaaaaaannn...

That only deals with WCW C shows. Man.

[Lacelle]

don't we have threads to discuss the matches anyways? in the WWE forum?

That would only discuss WWE matches & that format is too slick & overproduced for me.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Has anyone listened to these Shoemaker/Masked Man and Rosenberg pods on Grantland? they are tough to get through. I kinda like Rosenberg. He's a good interviewer too.

 

Shoemaker is lost. I had to laugh when he said if this was Ring of Honor, Orton would have put Cena through five more tables following the "botch" off the ladder to "make up for it" like that would be a good thing..   

[Victator]

A gun has not been held to my loved ones, so I have not willingly visited Grantland. 

[Cobra Commander]

 

don't we have threads to discuss the matches anyways? in the WWE forum?

That would only discuss WWE matches & that format is too slick & overproduced for me.

 

so, what do you wanna discuss? be specific

[SirSmUgly]

A gun has not been held to my loved ones, so I have not willingly visited Grantland. 

 

There are some smart writers there, but too many guys try too hard. Wesley Morris won a Pulitzer and it absolutely ruined his writing. Andy Greenwald is a guy with some bright ideas clouded in some truly awful metaphor and essay structure. These writers remind me of when I went to grad school and started writing impenetrably and in the language of convoluted bullshit to match my setting. 

 

Robert Mays is the tits, though. I love the NFL Podcast he does with Bill Barnwell, even if Barnwell is somehow kind of grating.

 

Anyway, Shoemaker is fucking terrible. Getting the Grantland job was the worst thing for him. Dead Wrestler of the Week was awesome, but now he incorrectly uses the label of "postmodernism" on everything and writes the worst kind of wrestling-opinion wankery. He's like Geno Mrosko with a dictionary, and I know that deep down inside, he is better than that, dammit. 

[Reggie20x6]

[mco543]

I've avoided Grantland entirely too, I fear that it's overrun with Simmons clones and pseudo-intellectualism. The fact that Shoemaker said Punk was doing postmodern chair shots or whatever it was and also referred to Harley Race as a "local wrestler" from St. Louis is enough for me to avoid him entirely. They seem to overcompensate for writing about sports and wrestling by writing in a manner that is pretentious or as was said above; the language of convoluted bullshit.

[Casey]

damn, guess I'll cancel that order of Shoemaker's book then...

[Niners Fan in CT]

There is your good and your bad with Grantland. Zach Lowe is great. Actually, most of their basketball stuff is awesome. Simmons and Jalen work well together. If ESPN let them go all out they could be nearly as entertaining as the TNT panel.

 

But man..  Shoemaker is so awful. I wish Dave was involved with Grantland, I really do. It'd be cool if they had a wrestling journalist who knew what he was talking about. The only good thing Shoemaker did was the interview with Triple H and Simmons was actually involved in that also.

 

Or maybe they could get JR involved.

[odessasteps]

For me, i stick to jonah keri, brian phillips and men in blazers at grantland, and bs report depending on the guest.

[Victator]

How did Bill Simmons become famous? I saw him on some documentaries and I can't believe anyone values his opinion. 

[mco543]

By writing on an AOL Hometown or whatever it was called website back in the day and then ESPN liked him and picked him up for their Page 2 site. Bill Simmons used to be a good writer, or at the very least enjoyable, once he moved to Los Angeles though it all went to hell. I used to look forward to coming home from school and reading his newest column. Then I read his NBA book which was the last straw, I haven't read a Simmons column since the admittedly amazing column about Elgin Baylor. If you guys like basketball you should check it out I think it's probably the best thing he's ever done.