May 2023 Wrestling Talk

[Raziel]

28 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Greg Valentine's a guy whose stock has gone up once people started drifting away from "Movezzzzz" to appreciating dudes that hit each other hard? at least Greg Valentine from the eras when he seemed to give more of a fuck. There's probably nothing that can save most Valentine matches after a point.

With Valentine, you just need to consider he needed 15 minutes just to warm up.

[Cobra Commander]

Having watched two 1977 MSG cards this week, those cards needed at least 45 minutes to warm up.

Greg Valentine beating El Olympico up at the Garden in 1975 was a fun match to watch.

[The Green Meanie]

Greg Valentine has always been one of my favorite wrestlers. Like, when someone mentions a wrestler, he's the kinda guy that comes to mind, personally. It's pretty ironic, considering Johnny Valentine was one of my mom's favorites.

[Cobra Commander]

 

[S.K.o.S.]

[S.K.o.S.]

They tell me this one is on the difficult side btw.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

47 minutes ago, S.K.o.S. said:

They tell me this one is on the difficult side btw.

It helps if you know joshi I guess? 7:59.

[JLowe]

15 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Greg Valentine's a guy whose stock has gone up once people started drifting away from "Movezzzzz" to appreciating dudes that hit each other hard? at least Greg Valentine from the eras when he seemed to give more of a fuck. There's probably nothing that can save most Valentine matches after a point.

That’s always been a great thing about DVDVR, it’s traditionally a tastemaker that favors strong dudes with big bellies who hit really hard.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

12 year anniversary of the death of Randy Savage today 

[BloodyChamp]

Valentine’s definitely somebody you think of when you hear the word “wrestler” for many little reasons but his shoots destroyed any hope of becoming a fan for me. He’s as negative as Honky and Superstar combined, but it’s with the intensity of some of his matches. 

[Dolphman 3000]

11 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

Valentine’s definitely somebody you think of when you hear the word “wrestler” for many little reasons but his shoots destroyed any hope of becoming a fan for me. He’s as negative as Honky and Superstar combined, but it’s with the intensity of some of his matches. 

Wrestlers without pensions having to give up their most intimate thoughts on camera for a case of beer and $500 to make ends meet might not be the happiest people

[BloodyChamp]

26 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Wrestlers without pensions having to give up their most intimate thoughts on camera for a case of beer and $500 to make ends meet might not be the happiest people

Maybe he should drink the beer first like the happy interview wrestlers do. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I think if Valentine had largely disappeared the same way a lot of his peers did post-Wrestlemania 1, he'd be a lot more revered. Him being around pointlessly in some of the worst roles for another 13 years kills the vibe.

To a lesser extent Rick Martel from 1991 to 1996 in the same boat. At least he had that redeeming Booker program.

[Elsalvajeloco]

11 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I think if Valentine had largely disappeared the same way a lot of his peers did post-Wrestlemania 1, he'd be a lot more revered. Him being around pointlessly in some of the worst roles for another 13 years kills the vibe.

To a lesser extent Rick Martel from 1991 to 1996 in the same boat. At least he had that redeeming Booker program.

I thought compared to a lot of his contemporaries from the late 80s WWF, Martel fared a little better just cause he didn't totally fade away. Although, there is a point where he turns up in 1993 and you might have totally forgot he was still on the roster.

He just feels like the guy you would expect to get an obligatory transition IC title run, but never got it. At the very least, you couldn't let Bret and Martel put on like a 15-20 minute wrestling clinic in 1991-1992?

[Jenalysis]

On 5/19/2023 at 2:17 PM, Greggulator said:

Hey guys! I need some help making a moveset for one of my e-fed characters. 

What I'm looking for: My character is a hyper athletic babyface. Think of Shelton Benjamin/Montez Ford/etc. (But white.) 

But he also has a love of old-school wrestling. I want to combine some old-school 80s stuff in combos that lead to him using state-of-the-art stuff. 

Example: He does a footstomp into a standing dropkick that send his opponent to the floor into some crazy dive to the floor. 

Example: Atomic Drop where his opponent bounces off the ropes into a Cartwheel Death Valley Driver and then into a springboard kick. 

Looking for combos that could start with a bionic elbow, monkey flip, backrake, ramming someone's head into the turnbuckle a bunch of times, etc. 

Thx! 

 

Look at some Kidd Bandit stuff.  She innovates a lot of moves like this.

 

[caley]

3 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Valentine’s definitely somebody you think of when you hear the word “wrestler” for many little reasons but his shoots destroyed any hope of becoming a fan for me. He’s as negative as Honky and Superstar combined, but it’s with the intensity of some of his matches. 

He was absolutely miserable to my little brother when he did our local indy in the early 2000s, which lead to a lifelong "feud" between the two that existed only in my brother's mind, much like the feud he carried for years with his second cousin after they got into a scuffle when they were 4 or 5 years old. Funnily, years later, the two ended up working together and didn't realize they were related for weeks before my mom went into the store and it all clicked, they were pretty good frieds for a few years too. Unfortunately, my brother never got to work with Greg Valentine so that feud lives on.

On another Valentine tangent, you know who he always reminded me of?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/bubble-bobble/images/6/6b/1039781-blubba_large.png/revision/latest?cb=20120720111134

The evil whale from Bubble Bobble! They have the exact same face, dont they? Or is it just me? It's just me, isnt it?

[Cobra Commander]

1 hour ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I think if Valentine had largely disappeared the same way a lot of his peers did post-Wrestlemania 1, he'd be a lot more revered.

if he had ended up in JCP instead of teaming with Brutus Beefcake, he probably would have at least had a solid run in Paul Jones Army

I posted a San Antonio newspaper wrestling card advertisement that made me realize there's one interesting match that never happened because the two principals were never really in the same place at the same time..

Shawn Michaels vs Terry Funk

(although Terry almost worked with Shawn, in a match that ended up involving a masked Greg Valentine)

[Dolphman 3000]

10 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Shawn Michaels vs Terry Funk

(although Terry almost worked with Shawn, in a match that ended up involving a masked Greg Valentine)

The house shows leading up to WrestleMania 14 were supposed to be headined by 6-mans featuring Austin/Foley/Funk vs. Shawn/Billy/Road Dogg. Either HHH or Rock filled in for Shawn depending on the night.

And then the main event for In Your House: No Way Out of Texas was changed to Austin/Foley/Funk/Owen vs. HHH/Billy/Road Dogg/Savio

[Cobra Commander]

basically the edge of a coffin denied us the chance to see Shawn Michaels and Terry Funk do a dueling sells in the middle of an 8 man tag

although the Shawn Michael back injury thing was one of those rare moments where having one of your top guys be unable to wrestle for 4 years (except for one match in San Antonio) didn't really hurt things much..

looking at Cagematch, it took a few months in 2002/03 for them to realize that Shawn could work again without dying. Like he didn't do a house show match until he had been back for 8 months, and the matches he did those house shows were the same Jericho/Flair/HHH vs HBK/Nash/Booker six man tag that happened at a PPV.

[evidence]

Thinking of HBK's 2002 return and it makes me wonder how his in ring return would have been handled had Kevin Nash not torn his quad in July.  At the time, Shawn's in the nWo with Kevin Nash, X-Pac, and Big Show and Kevin Nash.  Nash cut a promo with an ultimatum that Triple H join the nWo, but there was never a response from HHH by the time Nash's injury took place.  Do they go the route of having HHH turn heel and join with Nash or does the program end up being heel Nash (with HBK) vs face HHH?  That also makes me wonder if HBK's in ring return ends up being a heel HBK vs HHH in a reverse of what we got at Summer Slam 2002. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I wonder how much the in-ring return was ad-hoc because of Nash's injury/Austin walking. There never seemed to be any plans for Shawn to be an active in-ring guy while the NWO was active.

[Dolphman 3000]

4 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I wonder how much the in-ring return was ad-hoc because of Nash's injury/Austin walking. There never seemed to be any plans for Shawn to be an active in-ring guy while the NWO was active.

Bruce Prichard went and visited Shawn at his wrestling school in 2001-ish to try and sell him on a comeback match and said he was overweight at that point, so Shawn had to have dropped the weight with an in-ring return in mind.

[Shartnado]

1 hour ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Bruce Prichard went and visited Shawn at his wrestling school in 2001-ish to try and sell him on a comeback match and said he was overweight at that point, so Shawn had to have dropped the weight with an in-ring return in mind.

There were some pics in the short-lived WOW-magazine (w/Apter after PWI) in 2001 with Shawn working out and looking much more muscular (nothing ridiculous, but still) but that comeback was pushed back for yet another year and he came back very lean but also way less muscular than in those pics for Summer Slam 2002. I may still have those magazines in my bookshelf, I'm not sure.

[Dolphman 3000]

11 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

There were some pics in the short-lived WOW-magazine (w/Apter after PWI) in 2001 with Shawn working out and looking much more muscular (nothing ridiculous, but still) but that comeback was pushed back for yet another year and he came back very lean but also way less muscular than in those pics for Summer Slam 2002. I may still have those magazines in my bookshelf, I'm not sure.

HHH vs. Shawn was rumored for WrestleMania 17 but didn't happen because Shawn was still on drugs, so I'm guessing he got clean sometime after that which is when he gained the weight

Shawn looked in decent shape in 2000 when he did that TWA match with Paul Diamond

Edited May 21, 2023 by Dolphman 3000

[Shartnado]

2 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

HHH vs. Shawn was rumored for WrestleMania 17 but didn't happen because Shawn was still on drugs, so I'm guessing he got clean sometime after that which is when he gained the weight

Shawn looked in decent shape in 2000 when he did that TWA match with Paul Diamond

Yeah, I recall something like that but I wasn't sure how accurate that was so I didn't mention it. But yes, the timeline certainly seems to add up.