AEW Dynamite - 4/19/2023

[DEAN]

Awesome.

 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Man at this rate, All In 2024: Mexico City is gonna be fuggin' stacked

[MrKothoga]

38 minutes ago, SprintingFromAmerica said:

I remember when Omega has a timekilling programme with OC and PAC. But of course, they're two of the best workers in the world and Guerrera and Perry are not quite that. Nobody wants to see this 4 way.
 

That Omega-Orange-PAC match is one of the greatest matches of AEW and no one ever talks about it because it lacked drama and nobody believed the title would change hands anyways (although they pretty much made you believe in the match).

I really don't like how AEW more and more forgets that wrestlers have friends who would come to their aid. BTE tried to bullshit their way out of it by saying Dark Order already left, but there's no good reason why Dark Order wouldn't save Hangman from the BCC. Why didn't Hayter (and Riho or Willow) help Britt? A run in from Keith Lee would have made sense too. Too many things seem to happen in a vacuum now. I miss the time when only Cody would have his only universe disconnected from everything else.

[Craig H]

I’m so annoyed that Dynamite was so shitty last night. That was some TNA/bad WWE level shit and far worse than THE DARK ORDER ARE RUNNING WILD to close out the year. 

[chriskbrown50]

I think the concept of taking the 4 pillars and pointing them front and center with no additional people (no Jericho, No Sting, etc. ) is actually interesting. Can these folks stand and deliver, on the mic and in the ring, with no help? Every superstar at some point ran point on a program.  Now was last night great - nope.  But I give credit for TK for at least giving these guys the chance.  A cadre of 4 wrestlers in their mid to late 20s on top you help make into top stars has the potential to establish AEW for the immediate future. Can each deliver? Time will tell - but let's give this some room to breathe.  AEW to date has shown a decent long-term booking plan. 

Now did I like the booking here - no. 

Wardlow-AA - could be simply perfect. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Well said @chriskbrown50chriskbrown50 - I might've been a bit harsh in my original assessment last night, but I do commend the rolling of the dice on the young guys, and support THAT particular aspect unconditionally. I think that was sorely needed as a 'mission statement' of sorts post-All Out

Edited April 20, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath

[Log]

Oh, yeah. I was intrigued when a few weeks ago, the pillars all came out and I realized what they were doing. The execution of that, though...oof. 

They just have them doing stuff that seems out-of-character for who they've been presented as. Like others have pointed out, why is Darby literally "whoo-hoo"-ing when he gets a bye? He's always been shown to be a dude that has no fear of fighting anyone. Why is Jungle Boy so concerned with how everybody acts backstage? Why is Sammy suddenly so emotional about his treatment?

You could do these exact same guys, and with little tweaks, it works so much better. First week when they all come out to confront MJF, dueling promo between JB and Sammy, it gets to Darby's turn, he doesn't say a word and just runs and dropkicks Max. Instead of whining about his opportunities, Perry says he'll fight whoever he needs to fight to get a shot at the title, bring it on. MJF can still attempt his disingenuous alliance with Sammy, but let Sammy stay the slimy, but talented character he's been doing.

I guess the short version of that is that they're just using the weakest versions of those characters, IMO.

[Go2Sleep]

4 minutes ago, chriskbrown50 said:

I think the concept of taking the 4 pillars and pointing them front and center with no additional people (no Jericho, No Sting, etc. ) is actually interesting. Can these folks stand and deliver, on the mic and in the ring, with no help? Every superstar at some point ran point on a program.  Now was last night great - nope.  But I give credit for TK for at least giving these guys the chance.  A cadre of 4 wrestlers in their mid to late 20s on top you help make into top stars has the potential to establish AEW for the immediate future. Can each deliver? Time will tell - but let's give this some room to breathe.  AEW to date has shown a decent long-term booking plan.

100% agree here. Can't complain about "the same guys always being on top" then immediately pivot to "these new guys suck." There is nothing inherently wrong with running MJF vs. JB or Darby, or even a filler 4-way, the problem has been this inexplicable shift to WWE-style long promo builds. MJF is the only guy who can really do that. Darby can do good short, intense promos, but Sammy and JB need to be limited to quick interviews and pre-tapes. The very first promo segment after Revolution was the only one this program needed. Just let them wrestle after that and let the ranking-drama be the story. JB and Sammy had a perfectly good Dynamite main last night, but all anyone is talking about is their bad promos. These guys are clearly assets for the future of AEW even if they aren't "the guy," so just book to their strengths as you let them put their toes in the main event waters.

Also, on the subject of young assets, Wardlow's stock is somehow on the rise again despite being booked terribly for nearly a year. Orange Cassidy is as hot as he's ever been. Takeshita is finally in a high-profile feud. Jay White has the look and skill to be a true ace. AEW is absolutely loaded with fresh acts for the next few years.

[Log]

I guess the main thing I'd like AEW to get back to is telling me stories through the action, not talking.

[Greggulator]

I don't think the show was that bad! There was some good stuff. There was some bad stuff. It was just what most TV wrestling shows have always been.

One of the things with AEW is that it feels like it's either home runs or strikeouts. The highs are really high. The lows are really low. 

It's really just that the lows could really be mitigated with just some really clear fixes. Like:

1) Don't overcomplicate stuff, especially with your World Title angles. The set-up between MJF and DB with Regal and the like I gave them a pass on because things were screwed up because of Punk. But, like, just keep these things simple. It's especially important to do that when you're using three people who have never been in this type of role and are young and not great on the mic. No shooty stuff. No tournament. No MJF trying to pay Sammy to take a dive. Just make it three guys who want to be the next in line and they don't like each other from that. And MJF is threatened by all three. Simple stuff that requires as little exposition as possible and the basics of promos. 

2) Or, even better, next time don't worry about connecting it back to the stupid "Pillars" thing MJF talked about years ago. Just pick two of the three, find something else to do for the third, and whoever wins becomes the top contender. Just make it as simple as possible so inexperienced people have less they can screw up. Ricky Starks just busted Max's balls about looking stupid. They had a hot few weeks off of that. Simple. 

[Craig H]

I think what I’m discovering is that Darby is infinitely better NEVER talking, Jungle Boy can only pop the crowd when he calls someone a piece of shit or pussy, and Sammy always sounds grating. Regarding Jungle Boy, he’s like a bad stand up comedian who just says fuck a ton without understanding how to use profanity on stage. It’s such a crutch for him. 

I’ll give TK credit for rolling the dice on this angle, but it’s just exposing how crummy these pillars are and your actual pillars are probably guys like Starks, White, Hobbs, and OC. 

Other interesting things have been exposed lately too. I think the ROI on most of the NXT guys has been poor. Black and Cole do stand out the most, but both guys are injury prone. I think there’s probably a higher ceiling for Black than Cole.

The best course of action to take is just ride most of this stuff out until the PPV and then reset the first Wednesday after the PPV. AEW needs to get back to their roots and what worked before instead of the very WWE presentation they currently have. And more than that, they need some consistency with the people that are on TV.

[Log]

Like others have said, I did think it was a great show in-ring last night. Yeah, the pillars promos and the Shawn Michaels' School of Acting Drama Hour overshadowed it a bit, but it was solid.

That was my favorite Kommander match I've seen so far. I think it helped that he had more of a base in Jay White to work with. Flyer vs flyer matches can have some awesome spots, but are usually a little lacking in flow. I think that's why Vikingo/Kenny worked better than the other AEW/ROH Vikingo matches so far, IMO. I'd love to see Claudio get in there with some of these guys. He always made flyers look good in Chikara.

[EVA]

I’m totally fine with them going with this story, and I even like it as a heat check for all four guys at this point in their career, but I just hope there’s an honest assessment of all of them when it’s over.

Of course, MJF has proven himself as a legit top guy. And even though Darby didn’t cover himself in glory last night, he’s proven himself already, too.

But Jungle Boy is still clearly a long way off from being able to stand on his own as a top singles guy. (Which is totally understandable given his age!) He really needs to keep being booked with veterans who can help him continue to develop good habits and find himself. He’s a great talent, but I honestly think that if you took his theme music away right now, he would be significantly less over.

And Sammy…I actually really like him as a sleazeball undercard heel (he’s a perfect tag/stable guy), but he has flopped every time they’ve tried to elevate him. His babyface push was a total dud, and he doesn’t seem to be able to project enough Presence to work as a main event level heel. It’s probably getting close to time to cut bait on him. Again, he’s basically the same age as Jay White.

Like, Sammy is annoying enough that you want to see him get punched, but you wouldn’t necessarily pay to see it. That’s no man’s land for a heel with uppercard aspirations.

Edited April 20, 2023 by EVA

[John from Cincinnati]

15 minutes ago, Log said:

I guess the main thing I'd like AEW to get back to is telling me stories through the action, not talking.

This is the wrong instinct to have. AEW's best feud to this point, Punk-MJF, was very talk-heavy. As was alluded to just a few posts ago, Starks-MJF became a hot issue very quickly through talking. Talking is fine. The issue is who's talking and how much they're talking, and especially through the build to now the last three PPV main events -- how much sense any of this makes. One shouldn't be inclined toward just less talk -- the issue is it should be make it good talk, or don't do it. 

[Log]

2 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

This is the wrong instinct to have. AEW's best feud to this point, Punk-MJF, was very talk-heavy. As was alluded to just a few posts ago, Starks-MJF became a hot issue very quickly through talking. Talking is fine. The issue is who's talking and how much they're talking, and especially through the build to now the last three PPV main events -- how much sense any of this makes. One shouldn't be inclined toward just less talk -- the issue is it should be make it good talk, or don't do it. 

That's a good point. Promos are really something that makes pro wrestling what it is. I guess what I'm driving at with my last few posts is that AEW leadership need to be accentuating what their talent does well, not trying to fit them into a box. Not everyone is a great promo. So, maybe don't put that guy out there to do a long promo.

[Kevin Wilson]

35 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I think what I’m discovering is that Darby is infinitely better NEVER talking, Jungle Boy can only pop the crowd when he calls someone a piece of shit or pussy, and Sammy always sounds grating. Regarding Jungle Boy, he’s like a bad stand up comedian who just says fuck a ton without understanding how to use profanity on stage. It’s such a crutch for him. 

Jungle Boy I think was fine with the Christian promos because it was more a monologue he memorized and said with confidence. The opening promo last night felt like they were adlibbing (not saying they were, but it had that vibe) and everything just felt "off". None of them spoke with confidence and everyone watching could tell, it was just awkward. 

So I'm not disagreeing with you, just thinking that TK needs to keep people in their comfort bubble and only slowly nudge them out of it, not throw them in the deep end. A three way 'back and forth' promo is currently in none of their comfort bubbles, hopefully they will grow into it. MJF came across as such a star in comparison to them when he came out, really made it feel like none of the three are on his level.

[EVA]

I actually want to have a sidebar from the Pillars discussion and talk about title reigns/credibility for a moment:

I fundamentally reject the notion that long title reigns are the primary way of building interest/credibility in a title. Or that there is even something innately credible or interesting about a long title reign. I think we can find plenty of examples throughout history of long reigns that didn’t do much for the belt or anyone involved. Hell, there’s one going on right now in AEW with Jade and the TBS title, which nobody has given a shit about in at least 6 months.

Like, nobody would care about how many International title defenses OC had made if they weren’t MOTW/Y-caliber and often setup with unconventional angles that felt different from your standard midcard title stories.

I’ll even take it a step further and maybe hit some toes in the process: Roman hitting 1,000 days as champ is a meaningless statistic that has no effect on anything. What has made that FEEL like a big deal right now is that, for the past 8 months, he’s had great protagonists with compelling stories (Sami and Cody obviously, but I’d throw in Drew for the Wales match, too) that fans desperately wanted to see win the title.

What builds a title’s credibility is having strong challengers, compelling stories, and hot matches. And you can have all that with the title bouncing around a bunch.

I definitely have my quibbles with some recent TNT title booking (namely QT’s involvement with Hobbs), but in general, I think this Clash of the Titans era of super heavyweights trading the belt back and forth (with a bit of Darby the giant slayer mixed in) has been great and revitalized interest in a belt that has been kinda dead since…well, Sammy’s reign.

[Peck]

5 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

Jungle Boy I think was fine with the Christian promos because it was more a monologue he memorized and said with confidence. The opening promo last night felt like they were adlibbing (not saying they were, but it had that vibe) and everything just felt "off". None of them spoke with confidence and everyone watching could tell, it was just awkward. 

I will say that sitting in the crowd it felt like that whole segment was 40 minutes instead of 15. One of those “where are they going with all this?” as it went on and on and on. Why are you calling perhaps your top babyface in the company an asshole IN REAL LIFE~!?? There’s absolutely zero benefit for anyone in that scenario. Definitely an awkward segment and took some of the steam out of the building.

 

[porksweats]

5 minutes ago, EVA said:

I actually want to have a sidebar from the Pillars discussion and talk about title reigns/credibility for a moment:

I fundamentally reject the notion that long title reigns are the primary way of building interest/credibility in a title. Or that there is even something innately credible or interesting about a long title reign. I think we can find plenty of examples throughout history of long reigns that didn’t do much for the belt or anyone involved. Hell, there’s one going on right now in AEW with Jade and the TBS title, which nobody has given a shit about in at least 6 months.

Like, nobody would care about how many International title defenses OC had made if they weren’t MOTW/Y-caliber and often setup with unconventional angles that felt different from your standard midcard title stories.

I’ll even take it a step further and maybe hit some toes in the process: Roman hitting 1,000 days as champ is a meaningless statistic that has no effect on anything. What has made that FEEL like a big deal right now is that, for the past 8 months, he’s had great protagonists with compelling stories (Sami and Cody obviously, but I’d throw in Drew for the Wales match, too) that fans desperately wanted to see win the title.

What builds a title’s credibility is having strong challengers, compelling stories, and hot matches. And you can have all that with the title bouncing around a bunch.

I definitely have my quibbles with some recent TNT title booking (namely QT’s involvement with Hobbs), but in general, I think this Clash of the Titans era of super heavyweights trading the belt back and forth (with a bit of Darby the giant slayer mixed in) has been great and revitalized interest in a belt that has been kinda dead since…well, Sammy’s reign.

To your last point, I love the rapid fire TNT title reigns because it shows the champ can lose, every match is a fight against these titans.

[John E. Dynamite]

Hangman, MJF, Swerve, Darby, Jay White, Hobbes, Starks, Takeshita. Those are guys who have shown the degree of skills in terms of workrate/promo/aura (at least two out of the three) to be potential (or already proven) main eventers in AEW who are 33 years old or younger. That's your true Eight Pillars, work on them. Maybe an Acclaimed guy on the right singles run. Hell, Ethan Page is 33 and I think he has more upside than either Sammy or Jack, who are very very clearly in the Tier 2 catergory with Wheeler Yuta, Daniel Garcia, Top Flight and Adam Cole as 33-or-youngers who can work matches at that level but simply lack the presence that creates credible main event magic. Which is fine. They tried, they threw em out there to sink or swim and they just aren't that buoyant.

[chriskbrown50]

If at the end of the day, if 1 or more of the Pillars cannot deliver as a stand-alone person - then TK can point at this moment.  As a boss, giving someone a chance when they appear ready is a risk/reward. It may mean one or more needs more seasoning.  But you have to take the risk. 

Sammy is wild - I think he has so much charisma. And in real life is a babyface all day.  And he is willing to do crazy stuff no question. But he is classic case of needing to slow down at times.  I think he could carry the title though. 

Jungle Boy - has everything to be a star but the mic work.  You can see his brain almost grinding to close on the mic.  I hope he is getting some great coaching in the back. I don't have the history. What was Danielson like on the mic early on? So many guys in the back to pull on, but he could really use the NXT Dusty promo school. 

Allin - Weirdly his TNT run was exactly what he should be - nothing more or less. More of him on the mic is not better. His size and his daredevil style though maybe a shorter run. Again his TNT runs have been of my favorite AEW bookings. 

[Curt McGirt]

1. It was weird seeing Kyle O'Reilly show up in that commercial, he still out with injury I guess?

2. Don't know if this was mentioned before but they started censoring "shit" out off the program. BOOOOOOOOOOO

[Log]

13 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

2. Don't know if this was mentioned before but they started censoring "shit" out off the program. BOOOOOOOOOOO

Weirdly, I feel like censoring it makes it a bigger deal. Like, "Ooooh! We're not allowed to hear that, must be bad!"

[Nice Guy Eddie]

40 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

1. It was weird seeing Kyle O'Reilly show up in that commercial, he still out with injury I guess?

2. Don't know if this was mentioned before but they started censoring "shit" out off the program. BOOOOOOOOOOO

Kyle is still out with a neck injury. 

[AxB]

Was The Acclaimed’s entrance cut from TV? I saw Max Caster tweeting it and saying something about that.

Show was very sports entertainment. Meaning, it sucked ass.