March 2023 AEW Discussion

[NikoBaltimore]

I really just should take her up on her idea of having a small trash and recycle can in the office just so it's not piling up on the desk.

I also was today years old when I found out the guy playing Tommy in Rocky V was actually a boxer.  All this time I thought he was just a bad 80s actor and didn't think much of it.

[Casey]

56 minutes ago, Craig H said:

And as another example, all day people are going to try and dissect something that isn't there in Moxley's comments instead of talking about and getting amped up for JAMIE FUCKING HAYTER VS RIHO on Wednesday or MOTHERFUCKING SHIBATA VS YUTA on Friday.

I feel like Dr. Dre when shit detracts from cool shit. So fuck y'all, all of y'all, if you don't like me, blow me.

People won’t talk about Hayter/Riho happening this week because it’s actually happening next week.

[Craig H]

Well, they still should.

[The Natural]

Made me laugh. NSFW:

Spoiler

 

[The Natural]

Didn't see this posted but Matt Jackson partially tore his bicep as the Elite vs. House of Black vs. Jericho Appreciation Society on the AEW Dynamite in Canada.

[Jrag]

Tony not having his ace under contract while he is holding the belt is dumb as shit. Dude really is in way over his head, isn’t he?

Mox showing up at Summerslam would have been kinda awesome

Edited March 28, 2023 by Jrag

[Log]

I've only caught a brief video clip of the Mox podcast on Renee's instagram, but it seems everyone is sleeping on the biggest news: Mox is wearing a fucking Ahmed Johnson t-shirt!

[The Natural]

1 minute ago, Jrag said:

Tony not having his ace under contract while he is holding the belt is dumb as shit. Dude really is in way over his head, isn’t he?

Mox showing up at Summerslam would have been kinda awesome

That's some trust that Mox wouldn't do that. That was Vince's fear with Bret Hart and the WWF Championship right? Bret Hart would never have done that. Bret was right damnit! Never say never but I've never felt Mox would ever return to WWE. Mox was pissed how his WWE return was handled from his triceps tear.

[TheVileOne]

6 minutes ago, Jrag said:

Tony not having his ace under contract while he is holding the belt is dumb as shit. Dude really is in way over his head, isn’t he?

Mox showing up at Summerslam would have been kinda awesome

Especially if he was so desperate for numbers he forced CM Punk to work injured. 

[TheVileOne]

2 minutes ago, Log said:

I've only caught a brief video clip of the Mox podcast on Renee's instagram, but it seems everyone is sleeping on the biggest news: Mox is wearing a fucking Ahmed Johnson t-shirt!

Doesn't sound like he ever actually denied refusing to lose to CM Punk. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

7 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Especially if he was so desperate for numbers he forced CM Punk to work injured. 

Still waiting on that MRI, babydoll.

[TheVileOne]

13 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Still waiting on that MRI, babydoll.

I thought I had you on ignore. Ask Punk's lawyer. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

Just now, TheVileOne said:

I thought I had you on ignore. Ask Punk's lawyer. 

No, if you want to make the claim it seems like you'd be able produce it. I am guessing you're a foot specialist on the side. Like the Dr. Robert Anderson of DVDVR.

Also, if Tony Khan is the dad at the dais looking like a bewildered guest on the Jerry Springer show when he finds out his wife has been sleeping with her stepson for the last five years when Punk went on his rant at the scrum, I fail to see him being the dude that would force someone to wrestle hurt. How is he one way in the public but he's mid 90s Suge Knight in private? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

[Octopus]

2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Yeah. Moxley is slowly rising up my ranks of all time favorites. I was surprised to hear him talk about how much happier he is to live in the city and thinks Claudio is crazy to live out in the country, with Renee describing Claudio's crib as a "compound" on the outskirts of Orlando where he spends his days taking down wasp nests.

Man, fuck AEW All Access. We need a BCC All Access show.

The Real Housewives of Blackpool

[Belgian_Waffle]

The more that comes out about All Out 2022 the more and more the whole saga feels like an even bigger "heel program" than Montreal was. 

Hangman: shot on Punk on live TV and in the process confused the fans by alluding to a bunch of insider feud shit nobody cares about. 

Dave and Bryan: talked about the Hangman promo salaciously on the Observer, comparing it to Bret vs Shawn in a favourable way, didn't condemn Hangman for what was both an unprofessional and uninteresting way of dealing with backstage heat with Punk. Also both went on to praise Ace Steele's stupid promo and his involvement in the angle leading up to All Out. Have continued to make matters worse with each passing instance of weighing in. 

Tony Khan: (presumably) didn't reprimand Hangman for going off script and confronting the future world champ on live tv. 

Punk: shoots on Hangman on live TV after Hangman was at least willing to do business and drop the title at Double or Nothing. Confuses the fans, makes himself look pretty and makes Hangman look like a doofus. Proceeds to feel emboldened by this act to the point where he goes nuts at the All Out scrum and publicly bashes everyone. Has proceeded to make matters worse every time he gets near a keyboard. 

Omega and the Bucks: whatever happened in the All Out brawl shouldn't have happened and they bear partial responsibility. Also whatever all the backstage heat was leading up to the initial Hangman promo, I assume they played a big part in stoking those flames. 

Ace Steele: the biggest heel of the whole thing. Got handed an Ed Leslie high profile tv appearance, cut an absolutely grating promo, threw a chair at people to defend his bro's honor. Dumb goatee, seems Iike a bully, wasn't any good as a wrestler. 

Moxley: has some plausible deniability for fault in that I could see him being perceptive enough to not want to job to Punk without Punk doing the job first. Things were so chaotic backstage and there was so much heat on Punk, I could totally buy that for his own sake and the sake of the company he didn't want to hand too many wins to Punk if he suspected Punk was on his way out and/or being uncooperative. That being said, it's not like Moxley needs to be that protected and the squash title change on Dynamite really made an already cold program feel even more disjointed and out of control. 

Obviously I'm picking and choosing my points of contention here but I really can't imagine anyone coming up with a coherent argument for any party being free of blame. The whole thing has been so ugly and exhausting and only occasionally interesting/entertaining. I think the best argument for not bringing Punk back is simply that his being there would be the most material reminder possible that all of this happened and continues to drag out in the first place. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Belgian_Waffle

[StuntmanCrowley]

I wonder if it was before or after Hangman "shoots" on Punk(I don't even come close to agreeing there was anything incendiary about that promo, especially when Punk has made his bones being the "shooty, smarky" promo guy) that Punk said he wasn't going to "lose to Hangman"

 

Personally, Punk can fuck off forever.  I appreciate the MJF feud and how good it was, but other than that, he added nothing other than pop for his theme and subpar matches.

[Elsalvajeloco]

18 minutes ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

Other than that, he added nothing other than pop for his theme and subpar matches.

@Belgian_Waffle That reminds me, you left out Chris Jericho.

As for the parallels to Bret/Shawn, Tony Khan even let Punk go out there on one Rampage IIRC and let Punk give his version of the Lost His Smile speech. I guess Tony wouldn't allow him to get it back. I dunno. Vince let Shawn run amuck even when most of his friends (Aldo and Jarrett were like honorary members of the Kliq) were either on their way to WCW or on the shelf for almost two years. He coddled Shawn until Shawn got way too out of control even for Vince. Keep in mind, three or four months after Montreal, Shawn is basically written out as well. He shows up some months later as this non-performer who doesn't have a real purpose, but that's basically it for him wrestling in WWF for four years.

Now that said, I see Punk as more of a Bret Hart level high maintenance and stubborn, refuses to budge on stuff type guy at this point. Bitches constantly about stuff which affects creative. That's why he's in the predicament he is in now.

[Jrag]

The Punk/Mox squash really took the air out of everything for me partially because those guys were both having amazing in ring years and I was so fucking hyped up for that match. I had a similar feeling turning on my recording of Sixers/Nuggets last night and realizing Embiid was out.

Maybe the squash works under different circumstances, but not with a rematch coming down the pipe in a few weeks.  Really a microcosm of AEW’s biggest problem imo. Tony doesn’t understand which ideas need time to breathe. Dude will hot shot Punk/Mox or Omega/Danielson and then slow play like… Julia Hart joining the House of Black.  
 

 

 

[mystman]

3 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

Grumpy, dad bod, I’m-too-old-for-this-shit Tenryu Moxley rules. Pair him up in a buddy cop movie with Shota Umino.

FTFY

[Just Dave]

I feel like TK assumes a good bit of blame simply for not being able to read the room. If most of your top guys don't like CM Punk (for good reason), why turn around and make Punk the champ? I love Tony but he fixates. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

8 minutes ago, just drew said:

I feel like TK assumes a good bit of blame simply for not being able to read the room. If most of your top guys don't like CM Punk (for good reason), why turn around and make Punk the champ? I love Tony but he fixates. 

The thing about wrestling though is it's not a popularity contest among the boys. Now you would like for the top guy (or gal) to be well liked, but there are several instances of that not being the case. We would like it to be this ideal meritocracy but that's definitely the one thing pro wrestling is not.

[Belgian_Waffle]

1 hour ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I wonder if it was before or after Hangman "shoots" on Punk(I don't even come close to agreeing there was anything incendiary about that promo, especially when Punk has made his bones being the "shooty, smarky" promo guy) that Punk said he wasn't going to "lose to Hangman"

 

This is a good point I didn't consider. 

[Log]

20 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The thing about wrestling though is it's not a popularity contest among the boys. Now you would like for the top guy (or gal) to be well liked, but there are several instances of that not being the case. We would like it to be this ideal meritocracy but that's definitely the one thing pro wrestling is not.

Also, Punk is/was probably the last guy, besides John Cena, that was going to hopefully move the needle for them. I honestly don't care to follow the ratings news, so please don't correct me if he didn't spike ratings or whatever. I'm talking about guys who's signing could generate buzz. I'm sure Punk didn't come cheap, so you've got this guy who you're paying a ton for and he's getting huge pops everywhere you go, so yeah, you put the title on him.

I'm sure there were plenty of guys in the WWF locker room in 1984 that weren't happy that Vince Jr. was putting the belt on this muscled-up dude who couldn't hang in the ring the way someone like Backlund or Bockwinkel or Flair could, but that worked out great for the company. Now, I know that Punk not only didn't lead to that kind of success, and that the whole thing was pretty much a failure, but I think the logic of putting the belt on him was sound.

That's my long way of saying that @Elsalvajeloco is right that it shouldn't come down to who's popular in the locker room.

[Just Dave]

28 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The thing about wrestling though is it's not a popularity contest among the boys. Now you would like for the top guy (or gal) to be well liked, but there are several instances of that not being the case. We would like it to be this ideal meritocracy but that's definitely the one thing pro wrestling is not.

I get that. I personally think you had better candidates. I never believed Punk's best use was as an everyday performer. He's an attraction. Use him that way.

[Elsalvajeloco]

47 minutes ago, Log said:

Also, Punk is/was probably the last guy, besides John Cena, that was going to hopefully move the needle for them. I honestly don't care to follow the ratings news, so please don't correct me if he didn't spike ratings or whatever. I'm talking about guys who's signing could generate buzz. I'm sure Punk didn't come cheap, so you've got this guy who you're paying a ton for and he's getting huge pops everywhere you go, so yeah, you put the title on him.

I'm sure there were plenty of guys in the WWF locker room in 1984 that weren't happy that Vince Jr. was putting the belt on this muscled-up dude who couldn't hang in the ring the way someone like Backlund or Bockwinkel or Flair could, but that worked out great for the company. Now, I know that Punk not only didn't lead to that kind of success, and that the whole thing was pretty much a failure, but I think the logic of putting the belt on him was sound.

That's my long way of saying that @Elsalvajeloco is right that it shouldn't come down to who's popular in the locker room.

Hell, Vince could have said screw it and put the belt on Austin (who seemed to be universally beloved for his attitude and well ethic) in 1997 instead of juggling it around just to put it back on Shawn who virtually would have started the year champ having beat Sid at the Royal Rumble. However, that wasn't the end game creatively speaking.

44 minutes ago, just drew said:

I get that. I personally think you had better candidates. I never believed Punk's best use was as an everyday performer. He's an attraction. Use him that way.

I think that was a possibility but once he got that pop at the United Center, that was ballgame on him just being an attraction. I think it would be the same way if you had a John Cena or Dave Batista in the 1994 Hogan role in the * > 0% chance they would ever go to AEW. With Hogan it looked like he was just gonna be a part timer and then even on a rigorous TV and movie schedule, he ends up appearing more you than you actually expect. Even when they added folks like Savage and Luger, all those guys ended up with the WCW world title at some point. Now we're in the era where there are few names that unquestionably stand above all others. 

Vince tried to use Warrior as an attraction in 1996 (he got that one ridiculous pop at WrestleMania XII and then it was diminishing returns after that) and really got nothing out of it in that 3 months he was there. If you're going to work with someone who has already proven himself to be tough to deal with, you might come to the negotiation table with one role in mind and it ends being something entirely different.