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March 2023 Wrestling Discussion


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6 minutes ago, DJ Hero Morganti said:

I've not gone out of my way to watch most of the legendary puro matches of guys like Misawa or Kobashi.  I've enjoyed reading @Matt Ds runs through the older stuff.  It helps me understand the legends behind what made tje newer Noah stuff I watched (coz of KENTA and Marufuji) 

Hell, due to the sheer number of highly rated matches, I am pretty sure I somehow haven't seen a bunch of 90s All Japan matches. I think a lot of it is because at some point, stuff started running together and I am not entirely sure if I seen it or not based on the year. Pre coronavirus New Japan was starting to get up there for awhile. I just got to a point where I refuse to watch all of it.

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22 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Hell, due to the sheer number of highly rated matches, I am pretty sure I somehow haven't seen a bunch of 90s All Japan matches. I think a lot of it is because at some point, stuff started running together and I am not entirely sure if I seen it or not based on the year. Pre coronavirus New Japan was starting to get up there for awhile. I just got to a point where I refuse to watch all of it.

During COVID I bought a 20 disc set of 90s All Japan (100 matches total) ranked by Meltzer’s star ratings from 4.5 - 4.75 - 5 - 6.

Starts with Kobashi/Akiyama from July 24th 1998 and ends with Misawa/Kawada from June 3rd, 1994.

Needless to say I haven’t made it out of the first disc. It’s an overwhelming amount of stuff. The guy on Etsy does A LOT of comp DVDs. He has a similar set of AJW for $40 (and a CM Punk AEW set collecting his >1 year run with them for $20).

Edited by Casey
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1 hour ago, Casey said:

so I was watching Brian Zane’s review of WrestleMania 13 and I realized I’ve never watched Bret/Austin before. Yeah, yeah, I know. But that leads me to an interesting topic: what are some matches that people consider classics and/or required viewing that you’ve never seen? Or don’t want to because of someone involved?

I’ve also never watched the Razor/HBK ladder match or the Iron Man match between Bret/Shawn (or the Montreal Screwjob outside of clips).

I similarly have never caught the Montreal screwjob match outside of clips. Most of the classics I never caught are Japan related. There is a bunch of AJW & AJPW matches from the 80s & 90s I never caught. Its even worse with NJPW where I have seen none of the UWF/NJPW feud and very little of the 90s junior stuff out of the J Cups. 

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My problem is all the stuff I've watched over 30+ years, especially Japanese stuff and having a concise memory. Outside of something like seeing Liger do the SSP for the first time or the Toyota haircut match, everything kind of a blurry time soup.

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21 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

My problem is all the stuff I've watched over 30+ years, especially Japanese stuff and having a concise memory. Outside of something like seeing Liger do the SSP for the first time or the Toyota haircut match, everything kind of a blurry time soup.

Speaking of Liger, I just went back and watched 3 of the 4 matches Liger and Sano had (the Thunderstruck match w/ the SSP is the one from January 1990). However, based on the website you go to, one is mislabeled. It's easy to figure out which one is which based on the IWGP Jr. title history. The SSP one is on the same card as the pre Camp Cornette team of Vader (Big Van Vader) and Yokozuna (then Great Kokina) challenge Masa Saito and Hashimoto for the IWGP tag team titles. The other ones are from the year prior. Of course, if it's on a comp then it's a bit tougher obviously.

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I went through a ton of AJPW tapes back in the day but the only thing that sticks is random Kobashi matches and MVC tags.

Michinoku Pro stuff sticks in my head more which is kind of weird.  

I’ve still never seen much of original ECW tv.  Didn’t watch it at the time and it wasn’t something I picked up on tapes or watched on WWE network (if it was even on there?).  I’ve only ever really watched the PPV’s and TNN era TV.

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10 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I love Sasha/Mercedes as much as anyone but She already has a reputation for being rude to fans so you can't blame him for attacking her. Rhea doesn't have that reputation and I think Bubba and his peers are fans of her work as far as I know. Sasha is held in the highest regard as a worker but even her biggest fans within the business have no issues acknowledging her track record with fans even though she probably has the most creepiest and obsessive fans of all the women in the industry overall 

Yeah,  I'm going to go ahead and say that nobody is untitled to your time no matter how famous you are. I'm pretty sure everyone who knows me considers me genuinely nice,  but I'd bet most strangers would describe me as standoffish at best and mean or rude at worst. I'm just not that interested in talking to strangers. So if you approach someone you don't know in public,  you get what you get. You always have the choice to leave people the fuck alone,  and if you don't they might be rude to you.  It's more rude to interrupt someone's day and expect them to sign shit and take pictures,  than it is to not be happy about strangers asking you for a bunch of shit. 

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10 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Hell, due to the sheer number of highly rated matches, I am pretty sure I somehow haven't seen a bunch of 90s All Japan matches. I think a lot of it is because at some point, stuff started running together and I am not entirely sure if I seen it or not based on the year. Pre coronavirus New Japan was starting to get up there for awhile. I just got to a point where I refuse to watch all of it.

There is so much great stuff, and it's all worth watching,  but you have to break it up into chunks or it will all run together. Watch the 90-91 Jumbo and friends vs Misawa and friends feud,  then take a break and comeback and watch Misawa and Kawada start their feud. Then watch Kobashi's ascension, etc. It's funny,  but you need some filler.  We all have stood in the fridge eating slices of cheese or some cold cuts,  but when you're making a meal you will get some bread,  some mayo, some mustard,  a pickle,  lettuce,  tomato, and you'll have a satisfying sandwich. Watching all of the great matches from 90s AJPW is like eating a pound of cold cuts. It doesn't really matter how much you like it,  you'll get tired of eating that shit pretty quickly. 

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When I first got high speed internet in late '03 I downloaded a ton of classical AJPW from the  90s I probably watched watched the famous Kobashi vs Misawa matches once with no context no order.  I want to go back and watch alot of these matches again in order. It's was a whole new universe of wrestling getting to see guys like Kawada , Akiyama, Kobashi and people like that I had only read about in the Apter mags in the late 90s and reading about the formation on NOAH which became my favorite promotion in 2004 to around 2007 behind Ring of Honor at the time.

Then back at the end of 2011 I was out of work for a whole month and it was around the time of one of the Joshimania weekends so I spent most of that time watching a ton of 90s Joshi and even current Joshi at the time. It was so good really learning Joshi and probably the most enjoyment watching wrestling.

Alot of those Kobashi vs Misawa matches and matches with Kawada as much as I enjoyed them. I feel like I can't really count as matches I've seen because most you guys can name the dates and the arenas. That would be like someone watching the 3 Rock vs Austin Wrestlemania matches out of order and not knowing the dates  or time periods

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2 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

anybody wanna make up a number of what percentage of US-based Puro fans know Japanese? I don't know how much would be added by knowing the language and listening to commentary but if you don't, you're judging the whole thing on visuals

Visuals and the emotional pitch of the audience/commentary response. Unless you're watching it on mute for some reason. 

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So much of puroresu commentary is loan words. Move names in particular, once you learn what they sound like pronounced in Japanese they start clicking. I know the names of body parts. Red and blue. Numbers. Giant Baba saying So desu ne~. I get by.

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2 hours ago, Ziggy said:

When I first got high speed internet in late '03 I downloaded a ton of classical AJPW from the  90s I probably watched watched the famous Kobashi vs Misawa matches once with no context no order.  I want to go back and watch alot of these matches again in order. It's was a whole new universe of wrestling getting to see guys like Kawada , Akiyama, Kobashi and people like that I had only read about in the Apter mags in the late 90s and reading about the formation on NOAH which became my favorite promotion in 2004 to around 2007 behind Ring of Honor at the time.

Then back at the end of 2011 I was out of work for a whole month and it was around the time of one of the Joshimania weekends so I spent most of that time watching a ton of 90s Joshi and even current Joshi at the time. It was so good really learning Joshi and probably the most enjoyment watching wrestling.

Alot of those Kobashi vs Misawa matches and matches with Kawada as much as I enjoyed them. I feel like I can't really count as matches I've seen because most you guys can name the dates and the arenas. That would be like someone watching the 3 Rock vs Austin Wrestlemania matches out of order and not knowing the dates  or time periods

Last week, I realized I hadn't watched the last of the Rock vs. Austin WM trilogy since it happened back in 2003 and maybe a few years ago during covid I stopped like mid way for whatever reason. Then I realized why. That final five minutes and the aftermath is incredibly sad. Kinda heartwarming based on Rock breaking character and sitting down to thank Austin for what he's done, but also incredibly sad and bittersweet. Not on the level of seeing Ali against Larry Holmes or Tyson losing to Lennox Lewis for me personally, but it's up there now that I finally watched the whole thing and it's fresh in my mind.

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33 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

I avoided watching the Shawn/Razor SummerSlam 1995 ladder match for a long time because I loved their first one so much and didn't want it to taint the original in my memory

The 2nd one in many ways a better match even though it was kinda thrown together at the last minute and it's now face vs. face. I think they realized that card was gonna suck if the top two matches were just Taker vs. Kama and Diesel vs. Mabel. The only issue is you can tell we're in full Shawn is a clear and utter asshole mode. Either it's that or he was just so much of a perfectionist that he was a bundle of nerves going into that match. Between showing up the referee before the match for hanging the belt up wrong (not absolving the ref cause you should know the correct way and it's not with the main plate facing up or down for that matter) and losing his cool over the botched finish (that WAS Shawn's fault), it's evident what path Shawn was headed down over the next 2 and 1/2 years from that point.

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On 3/23/2023 at 9:31 PM, Casey said:

so I was watching Brian Zane’s review of WrestleMania 13 and I realized I’ve never watched Bret/Austin before. Yeah, yeah, I know. But that leads me to an interesting topic: what are some matches that people consider classics and/or required viewing that you’ve never seen? Or don’t want to because of someone involved?

I’ve also never watched the Razor/HBK ladder match or the Iron Man match between Bret/Shawn (or the Montreal Screwjob outside of clips).

I’ve never seen any of those either.

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