March 2023 Wrestling Discussion

[evanknight]

On 3/3/2023 at 7:38 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

Wasn't this what they did with Cameron Grimes? 

Didn’t they do that with Jamie Noble and Nidia?

[Niners Fan in CT]

Watched Bash at the Beach '96 again while we're here wondering whether it's gonna snow or not.  It's really amazing how the closing segment all came together with the crowd organically becoming more and more pissed where now everyone is throwing trash..   There's no way WCW could have thought that it would have worked out THAT well with the crowd participation.  

What are some other moments you can remember where the crowd takes a cool moment and elevates it to legendary status? 

[Curt McGirt]

Since the karaoke seems to be in Hollywood, now I'm imagining Suzuki sitting at the Rainbow drinking at the bar. Maybe even playing the one-armed bandit in Lemmy's position, which everyone is too frightened to tell him he can't sit there. 

[Cobra Commander]

Randy Arozarena making his pick for a lucha mask to wear in public

 

[The Natural]

19 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

LA Knight is Ken Anderson with better in ring, and the latter got some nice run including a Taker feud / main event and MITB. So I think Knight has some upside yet. 

One of the most brutal chairshots ever:

01:00.

Undertaker threw nasty chairshots.

[The Natural]

43 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

Off the top of my head -

The pop for Austin helping Foley.

WHAT? - Not a moment but it's become all time vernacular.

The entire YES Movement, but specifically Bryan turning on Wyatt in the cage.

Wyatts v SHIELD faceoff.

The opening bell standoff between Danielson and Omega.

Second all those particularly Mick Foley winning the WWF Championship and the Yes Movement.

To add:

Sami Zayn turns on Roman Reigns and is attacked by the Bloodline at the 2022 Royal Rumble. The pop with the chair shot, "Thank you, Jey" as he left the Bloodline and "Fuck you, Roman" chants.

The shocked reaction to The Streak ending, Undertaker's unbeaten WrestleMania record to Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania XXX.

Roman Reigns on RAW the night after WrestleMania XXXIII after beating The Undertaker there.

Brock Lesnar's return to WWE on the post WrestleMania XXVIII RAW.

Kevin Owens and Elias getting nuclear heat on RAW in Seattle.

Bret Hart/Owen Hart/British Bulldog/Brian Pillman/Jim Neidhart vs. Steve Austin/Hawk/Animal/Goldust/Ken Shamrock. WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede.

Doug Furnas/Dan Kroffat vs. Kenta Kobashi/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi. AJPW, 25th May 1992.

Edited March 15, 2023 by The Natural

[SirSmUgly]

4 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Watched Bash at the Beach '96 again while we're here wondering whether it's gonna snow or not.  It's really amazing how the closing segment all came together with the crowd organically becoming more and more pissed where now everyone is throwing trash..   There's no way WCW could have thought that it would have worked out THAT well with the crowd participation.  

What are some other moments you can remember where the crowd takes a cool moment and elevates it to legendary status? 

A fellow example from the "fans start tossing shit organically" division: WCW fans all tossing their chairs to Cactus Jack/at Public Enemy, Hardcore Heaven '94. What a spectacle.

[Dolphman 3000]

51 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

A fellow example from the "fans start tossing shit organically" division: WCW fans all tossing their chairs to Cactus Jack/at Public Enemy, Hardcore Heaven '94. What a spectacle.

I'd like to know when exactly the first chair-throwing incident occurred - Terry Funk asked for chairs during the original Three Way Dance in early 1994 but only had a few takers, so I'm guessing he did that spot elsewhere before ECW

Edited March 15, 2023 by Dolphman 3000

[zendragon]

20 hours ago, Pete said:

George Washington IS Ravishing Ronald! These are hysterical.

I’m imagining a vignette where George chops a cherry tree while “man’s man” plays also Adam’s look like what I imagined a youthful Harley Race looks like

[HumanChessgame]

Elias reminds me a lot of Damien Sandow, partially because of looks and physique but also in terms of his mannerisms and inconsistent booking. Sandow got really over with his intellectual savior gimmick and his team with Cody was doing well, then they made him Miz's stooge then a bumbling heel. Elias was doing well enough with his singing asshole gimmick (see the Seattle promo) and is competent in the ring, but they just made him a bigger and bigger goof.

I always get LA Knight and Austin Theory mixed up as they both just strike me as guys Johnny Ace would have hired and been high on during his run - in shape, generically handsome wrestlers who can talk well enough but are totally uninteresting once the bell rings.

 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

13 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

What are some other moments you can remember where the crowd takes a cool moment and elevates it to legendary status? 

Hard bias alert because I was in said crowd (and IIRC you may have been too?) but Omega/Danielson at Grand Slam I. Obviously, the match was killer, but even if it weren't, and it was just that one moment after the bell where they were getting 'holy shit' and 'this is awesome' before they even touched, I think it would qualify here.

[Mister TV]

14 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

What are some other moments you can remember where the crowd takes a cool moment and elevates it to legendary status? 

When Stone Cold drove a Zamboni to the ring the night after getting "screwed" out of the title. I was at Joe Louis Arena that night and the pop was insane, grown adults were screaming and jumping up and down like kids who got every Xmas present they've ever wanted.  If that pop wasn't so massive I don't think the whole Stone Cold drives a vehicle to the ring would have caught on.

[Zimbra]

14 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Watched Bash at the Beach '96 again while we're here wondering whether it's gonna snow or not.  It's really amazing how the closing segment all came together with the crowd organically becoming more and more pissed where now everyone is throwing trash..   There's no way WCW could have thought that it would have worked out THAT well with the crowd participation.  

What are some other moments you can remember where the crowd takes a cool moment and elevates it to legendary status? 

Mostly it's just the one kid, but: Ron Simmons winning the WCW title in Baltimore.

[The Natural]

If Cody Rhodes and Mr. LA formed a tag team, it would be the American Knightmares.

Edited March 15, 2023 by The Natural

[Eivion]

7 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Elias reminds me a lot of Damien Sandow, partially because of looks and physique but also in terms of his mannerisms and inconsistent booking. Sandow got really over with his intellectual savior gimmick and his team with Cody was doing well, then they made him Miz's stooge then a bumbling heel. Elias was doing well enough with his singing asshole gimmick (see the Seattle promo) and is competent in the ring, but they just made him a bigger and bigger goof.

Intellectual Sandow was neither really over, nor was his team with Cody doing well. I liked that version of Sandow more, but it was the stooge gimmick and eventual break away feud from the Miz that got him over. The problem was the gimmick was too goofy for him to keep momentum. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Eivion

[zendragon]

18 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Watched Bash at the Beach '96 again while we're here wondering whether it's gonna snow or not.  It's really amazing how the closing segment all came together with the crowd organically becoming more and more pissed where now everyone is throwing trash..   There's no way WCW could have thought that it would have worked out THAT well with the crowd participation.  

What are some other moments you can remember where the crowd takes a cool moment and elevates it to legendary status? 

Taz debut at MSG

[Zakk_Sabbath]

3 hours ago, Eivion said:

Intellectual Sandow was neither really over, nor was his team with Cody doing well. I liked that version of Sandow more, but it was the stooge gimmick and eventual break away feud from the Miz that got him over. The problem was the gimmick was too goofy for him to keep momentum. 

You're not wrong whatsoever, but for me, all that stuff is rehabbable - the real kiss of death for him was the Megapowers 'tribute' gimmick with Curtis Axel. It's cute once or twice, but never, ever, ever works long term, and is a surefire sign creative legitimately, truly has nothing for you. Even if it's someone who is entertaining in their own right -- for example, I recall a few incredibly painful weeks in '99(ish) where Stevie Richards was inexplicably working dressed in Dude Love's gear; in the end, it just made me wanna watch Dude Love (or Savage, in Sandow's case).

Edited March 15, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath

[John E. Dynamite]

4 hours ago, Eivion said:

Intellectual Sandow was neither really over, nor was his team with Cody doing well. I liked that version of Sandow more, but it was the stooge gimmick and eventual break away feud from the Miz that got him over. The problem was the gimmick was too goofy for him to keep momentum. 

I went back and watched an old Sandow promo get no reaction, and I almost want to blame it on the company. Every time I catch parts of TV from the pre-YES!, pre-Shield years it feels like absolutely nothing is over. Like people are afraid if they enjoy a gimmick too loudly then creative will ruin it.

[Eivion]

2 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

You're not wrong whatsoever, but for me, all that stuff is rehabbable - the real kiss of death for him was the Megapowers 'tribute' gimmick with Curtis Axel. It's cute once or twice, but never, ever, ever works long term, and is a surefire sign creative legitimately, truly has nothing for you. Even if it's someone who is entertaining in their own right -- for example, I recall a few incredibly painful weeks in '99(ish) where Stevie Richards was inexplicably working dressed in Dude Love's gear; in the end, it just made me wanna watch Dude Love (or Savage, in Sandow's case).

The team made sense, but in general tribute gimmicks aren't really the type of thing that can last long term in a major promotion. At some point both of them needed to show something of themselves to succeed beyond that and never did. I always kind of hated that team because I saw it as the kiss of death that it was even back then.

[Zimbra]

I thought of another moment made by the crowd: Muta unmasking Liger and the Kishin Liger reveal.  There's the great progression of the crowd going from booing Muta, to silence, to the very Japanese  "oooooOOOOOO" as people figure out what's going on, to the pop when me mists Muta.  Great shit.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

Every time I see this ad on the train, I think of Kazarian and smile.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Gordlow

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

9 hours ago, L_W_P said:

Great list but want to highlight this one and ask the board - 

Is "It's my yard now." the greatest 'words for impact' promo of all time?

There's all time great promos, but the weight of 4 words was incredible.

 

I was at that show, and fucking hell, it was legit. Like, it maintained that level during the ad break. It was nuts. 

Also - the Hardys return in the multi man tag match at Mania. Wow. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

5 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

was at that show, and fucking hell, it was legit. Like, it maintained that level during the ad break. It was nuts. 

I remember watching that and thinking, fuck it, go all in and have Roman come out in the whole Taker gimmick the following week. Just nuclear.

[The Natural]

Kofi Kingston needs ankle surgery. Get well soon.

[Greggulator]

WWE question: 

Am I crazy in thinking that nearly everyone on the main roster right now is at least very good? The one guy who actively isn’t is Top Dolla, but he is really green and should still be in NXT. 

Dom deserves all his rave reviews for his character work. But in his recent matches - he hit all his spots clean, he has a really killer frog splash and he has really good heel timing. He won’t have any traditional five star matches but he will 

Even people who make me snooze like Karrion Kross can have really good matches. It’s just the character and presentation aren’t for me. But an example of how he’s good: They botched a fireball thing against Drew and had to improvise and covered it really well. You don’t do that without being skilled.

Maybe Omos? But he’s used in limited doses and just does a snarling mean giant thing, and that’s fine.

Maybe Carmella? She’s more shtick and not put in lengthy matches. Even when she’s in a match against someone she’s usually at least passable. 

I am really hard pressed to think of anyone who just flat out sucks. Dexter Lumis is fine. Austin Theory has had some good matches. Dolph and The Miz are stale but good gatekeepers. (And The Miz isn’t even stale.)

Bray’s current gimmick even lost me (the biggest Wyatt’s mark) but if you’re the leader of a stable who had one of the handful of best wrestling matches of the century and a bunch of other bangers you know how to work. Just he needs an editor real bad.