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AEW Dynamite - 2/22/2023


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On 2/22/2023 at 7:56 PM, elizium said:

I thought maybe they were doing an Acclaimed vs their enemies kind of thing for the 4 way but other than Swerve/Lee, who have since broken up, I can’t think of any other recent teams that have been tied to the Acclaimed that could fit into the 4th spot

 

On 2/22/2023 at 9:09 PM, Belgian_Waffle said:

Like a lot of wrestling fans I get nostalgic for things from my childhood that actually kind of sucked so I'm sort of into the idea of the Gunna cheating their way through a title reign way longer than what anyone anticipates and becoming the AEW version of the Quebecers during their 93/94 tag title run. Although more objectively the Acclaimed should win the belts back sometime this summer. 

Best Friends have been feuding with The TNA Lads, I predict they get the fourth spot and eat the fall at revolution. Acclaimed get the belts back sometime after that

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10 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I don't want to speak for him, but I took it as him telling you wrestling is a work. As in it's ridiculous you think what happened wasn't predetermined. Or that any performer would be allowed to lie about what he was going to say and the mic wouldn't be shut off, or they wouldn't go to break. It didn't get posted on Youtube for the exact purpose of your argument. To make it seem real, because everything gets posted on Twitter & Youtube. It was a predetermined choice to make the angle appear real.

I promise you there's not a single guy that would be allowed to go off script on live TV like that. Well except for Punk's Hangman call out. But that was a 30 second bit that was moved on from and one of those things no one really understood what was happening until after the fact.

I get you don't like MJF. And that's perfectly okay. We all have our likes and dislikes. But don't let your real dislike for the performer cloud your judgement. He doesn't book the show or his own angle. Everything he does is at least bullet point approved and scripted into the format. Just keep that in the back of the mind when you do voice your criticisms.

My not liking MJF has nothing to do with it. My problem is why haven't the comments made by MJF over the last several weeks - and even stretching back to his infamous pipebomb (if it can be called that) - didn't lead to Tony Khan pumping the brakes or advising him not to say those things on his wrestling program or at least someone who is more experienced (like a Big Show or a Tazz or a Mark Henry or a Dustin Rhodes) didn't pull MJF aside and tell him to keep it focused on the wrestling angle. Given that this is happening in a post-Chris Benoit tragedy world of wrestling. It's really irresponsible and shows how out of his element Tony Khan is.

If it's a bullet point on the format and none of the specifics are there, it is rather concerning. By it continuing every week, it's validation for what MJF is doing. By it being "Yeah, go out there and say what you want, just as long as you get the angle over," it becomes "Yeah, go out there and say you pinned a car accident on one of your ex girlfriends" or "That's fine if you just expressed suicidal inclinations on national television over your break-up with your fiance to your opponent at the PPV" because "it'll lead to ratings or merch sales and if it's on TV it's a work and we worked the smarks hurr durr." I dare say it but someone like Vince McMahon would have stopped MJF in his tracks and directed him toward keep it to wrestling only (not saying MJF can't talk about his personal life, he just needs to be smart about it). Honestly the portion about Bryan Danielson going after the title because he got past the opponents in front of him is compelling enough on its own with MJF freaking out and saying that there's no possible way Danielson will beat him at the PPV should be enough. All this other stuff that MJF is saying somewhat shows that he's really not ready and he's supposed to be AEW's World champion. (But somehow I'm supposed to keep it at the back of my mind)

At the end of the day, the bigger question becomes "why would anyone want to watch the PPV?" I'm hoping that what's happening leads to a great match but the same time I feel icky knowing that mental health issues of one of the wrestlers is even a storyline now.

Edited by Andrew POE!
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I thought this was a pretty good show, but it was in front of exactly the right crowd. AEW needed to feel exciting, and it did.

Yutes is one of my favorite TV wrestlers right now. I think he has a really advanced feel for where he is in a match, if that makes any sense. He's like one of those college basketball players who doesn't possess any attribute at an elite level, but every year he averages double figures in scoring and assists and his team always gets to the Sweet 16. I really, REALLY dig what he brings to the table, and for a guy with such pure babyface energy I really liked the mean streak he showed.

Ricky Starks is The. Shit. It feels like every time he's on tv I get on here after and talk about how he's a can't miss top babyface. My biggest fear is that he's gonna get passed over for Adam Cole, who might be the least interesting wrestler on earth. I also fear they're gonna do the thing where Jericho wins but it's with enough shenanigans that they can claim they "kept Ricky strong." My bet would be on Action Andretti double crossing Starks. Or Hobbs costing Starks the match. The best thing for all involved woud be for Starks to go over clean and move on. In a perfect world Starks would go on to take the TNT title off of the winner of Wardlow/Samoa Joe. 

I'm just not into this women's stuff, except that Ruby Soho is getting featured the way she should've been from the start. Hayter feels like such an afterthought right now.

Great shit from the Acclaimed and this Bill/Moriarty team. They're REALLY coming into their own, and both guys feel like they're having a ball. Moriarty has a real blaxploitation movie hero energy to him. The Acclaimed always bring the goodness. I think FTR will be the 4th team. It's set up perfectly for them to be the Jokers in the CBR. Jarrett and Lethal bring such a strong stooge heel presence to the show. They're heels that get a heel reaction. Jarrett, in particular, is putting on a master class in doing stuff without doing stuff. It's dope.

The main event was great. Mox gets a ton out of everyone he works with. Idk if it's because guys are in there fighting for their lives against him and it makes it seem like a better match, but whatever it is, it works. Mox has been so built up by TK's booking that he feels unbeatable, but Hangman can't eat a loss right now. I wonder if Mox is putting Page over partially as a message to a certain "delta plus" that if HE can put Hanger over, and Kenny can put Hangman over, that Chicago Made shouldn't have an issue with it either. 

Good shit. Not surprised the number was high. A hot crowd helps this show so much.

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13 hours ago, Andrew POE! said:

My not liking MJF has nothing to do with it. My problem is why haven't the comments made by MJF over the last several weeks - and even stretching back to his infamous pipebomb (if it can be called that) - didn't lead to Tony Khan pumping the brakes or advising him not to say those things on his wrestling program or at least someone who is more experienced (like a Big Show or a Tazz or a Mark Henry or a Dustin Rhodes) didn't pull MJF aside and tell him to keep it focused on the wrestling angle. Given that this is happening in a post-Chris Benoit tragedy world of wrestling. It's really irresponsible and shows how out of his element Tony Khan is.

If it's a bullet point on the format and none of the specifics are there, it is rather concerning. By it continuing every week, it's validation for what MJF is doing. By it being "Yeah, go out there and say what you want, just as long as you get the angle over," it becomes "Yeah, go out there and say you pinned a car accident on one of your ex girlfriends" or "That's fine if you just expressed suicidal inclinations on national television over your break-up with your fiance to your opponent at the PPV" because "it'll lead to ratings or merch sales and if it's on TV it's a work and we worked the smarks hurr durr." I dare say it but someone like Vince McMahon would have stopped MJF in his tracks and directed him toward keep it to wrestling only (not saying MJF can't talk about his personal life, he just needs to be smart about it). Honestly the portion about Bryan Danielson going after the title because he got past the opponents in front of him is compelling enough on its own with MJF freaking out and saying that there's no possible way Danielson will beat him at the PPV should be enough. All this other stuff that MJF is saying somewhat shows that he's really not ready and he's supposed to be AEW's World champion. (But somehow I'm supposed to keep it at the back of my mind)

At the end of the day, the bigger question becomes "why would anyone want to watch the PPV?" I'm hoping that what's happening leads to a great match but the same time I feel icky knowing that mental health issues of one of the wrestlers is even a storyline now.

I think this is a rational take on everything. There has to be a line and I do agree he's across it. For my tastes not by much, but it's a little edgier than it needs to be. But these are just opinions. The only opinion that matters is TK's. And he's obviously liking it. You don't put the title on MJF if you're not a fan of what he is and what he does.

And I don't want that to seem like I'm down on MJF. He's phenomenal in my opinion. He can get heat. He can get pops. He can turn a crowd and lead them anywhere he wants to with just his words. He's also vastly under rated in ring in my view. Some shit doesn't always connect. I did not like his backflip no sell of Takeshta's top rope clothesline. It looked really cool. But it didn't jive with the physics of wrestling. Despite all that MJF is great. And clearly deserving of being on top. You won't like to hear this but he's the closest we have to a Flair in this era.

If there was an internet and message boards how many people would have been criticizing the content of his promos? Being married and giving away his hotel room number and talking about Space Mountain and what not. Society changes as time goes on. Flair was the MJF of the 80s. And seeing how hard you criticize MJF just makes me chuckle some times. He certainly needs to dial back some of his act, but I don't quite agree to the lengths you suggest. I think we need more of MJF's commitment to his act from others.

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2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I think this is a rational take on everything. There has to be a line and I do agree he's across it. For my tastes not by much, but it's a little edgier than it needs to be. But these are just opinions. The only opinion that matters is TK's. And he's obviously liking it. You don't put the title on MJF if you're not a fan of what he is and what he does.

And I don't want that to seem like I'm down on MJF. He's phenomenal in my opinion. He can get heat. He can get pops. He can turn a crowd and lead them anywhere he wants to with just his words. He's also vastly under rated in ring in my view. Some shit doesn't always connect. I did not like his backflip no sell of Takeshta's top rope clothesline. It looked really cool. But it didn't jive with the physics of wrestling. Despite all that MJF is great. And clearly deserving of being on top. You won't like to hear this but he's the closest we have to a Flair in this era.

If there was an internet and message boards how many people would have been criticizing the content of his promos? Being married and giving away his hotel room number and talking about Space Mountain and what not. Society changes as time goes on. Flair was the MJF of the 80s. And seeing how hard you criticize MJF just makes me chuckle some times. He certainly needs to dial back some of his act, but I don't quite agree to the lengths you suggest. I think we need more of MJF's commitment to his act from others.

MJF isn't close to being a Flair in this era, but he's been given chances at having a stable to make himself a Flair and he....blew it.

Yes and no on commitment to MJF's act from others. Yes, because, let's face it, a LOT of AEW's roster lack a discernible distinct personality. Quick, name Wheeler Yuta or Daniel Garcia or even Orange Cassidy's catchphrase in their promos? What makes Bear Bronson different from Nick Commorato? You can't because they have none and everyone is a generic CAW from WWE video games. AEW does need characters and storylines and not just men and women getting into the ring to have a match for reasons. TK needs to look at who he has that are experienced and let them direct the storylines and work with these people on their characters. I do agree that MJF has a commitment to his character, I just wish his character had a journey. Suffice to say, he would be suited for WWE if he could relax a little and let other people shape him that been around. The outlandish things don't make me want to see him get beat, it actually makes me question if he even should be on TV (but again TK is seemingly fine with it so what do I know?).

I would say no due to how exhausting it is watching MJF be himself. Someone on YT actually has a video called "AEW became boring once MJF became champion." His argument is everything that was surprising or unique about MJF is played out now and he's finding a lack of investment in any feuds for MJF or any factions with MJF because he's just going to turn his back on them anyway.

The more reflect on it, the more my problem is with Tony Khan and his direction (or lack thereof) for AEW and not MJF. MJF is just a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

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MJF just straight up said "I'm going to be Hulk Hogan and rarely defend the belt" when he won it, not understanding that Hogan being a cowardly heel was part of the bigger nWo storyline and everyone in that faction protecting Hogan.

People were suggesting MJF should have a bodyguard last year, and as a character with supposedly endless money I don't see what his excuse is for not having 24/7 backup. Big Bill would have been perfect for that role had he not already lost a dozen times on TV.

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

Wrestlers need catch phrases??? If we're going back to fucking 1998, I'll just quit watching now.

Not just that, but saying that Yuta, OC, and Garcia are indistinguishable is just inane.

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8 hours ago, Dog said:

Wrestlers need catch phrases??? If we're going back to fucking 1998, I'll just quit watching now.

Wow, I wasn't necessarily meaning that every AEW wrestler needs a catchphrase, there's just nothing memorable about the ones I mentioned.

Here's another example to help illustrate my point: Pac has started grabbing a ringside hammer during matches and is expecting his tag partners in Lucha del Mal Morte (or whatever they are called) to do the same or cheat. But why? Only going by what the announcers are saying, I have nothing else to know why they are doing this. Has Pac done a promo asking his stable mates to do this? What motivation does he have to do any of this? Unless it's expressed, I have no clue as a viewer.

For a positive example of what AEW is doing right, look at Ricky Starks. No, he doesn't have a catchphrase that I can recall. But he has a presence and a personality in the ring and on the mic. And yes, his matches can be maddening because sometimes he's great and sometimes he's isn't. I know who Ricky Starks is when he appears. Can't say the same thing for Wheeler Yuta or Daniel Garcia (and I love both of those wrestlers and think they are tremendous in the ring). I know both Wheeler and Daniel are wrestling machines, but I don't know why they are important or why I should care about either.

My point is there should be characters or something that draws you in as a viewer and (this is key) make you want to come back as a viewer versus changing the channel or going to WWE or Impact or NJPW or God forbid NWA. Just throwing people into the ring every week and having the win/loss record drive the storyline isn't enough. I'm not expecting Vince Russo's booking, I'm just expecting competent booking that from week to week makes sense.

Edited by Andrew POE!
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3 hours ago, Andrew POE! said:

Here's another example to help illustrate my point: Pac has started grabbing a ringside hammer during matches and is expecting his tag partners in Lucha del Mal Morte (or whatever they are called) to do the same or cheat. But why? Only going by what the announcers are saying, I have nothing else to know why they are doing this. Has Pac done a promo asking his stable mates to do this? What motivation does he have to do any of this? Unless it's expressed, I have no clue as a viewer.

I can't co-sign this. So you're saying having Pac ask them in the moment during the match to use the hammer and Lucha Bros being apprehensive isn't enough story telling for you? You need a specific backstage out of ring version of that for it to count? They spread the hammer story out over 8 matches. Pac is a bastard, he wants to win at all costs. So he got his dudes to cheat too to get an advantage. Pretty easily understandable story there in my opinion. I do no need nor do I want a backstage promo where he goes into a long story about how his mother was a hammer maker and he's doing it to honor her or some shit.

It's wrestling. A bad guy wrestler starting hitting people with hammers and it was working to win. So he wanted his buddies to do it too to keep their titles. Probably the worst example you could have picked to demonstrate any kind of point.

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I also feel like AEW does a great job of letting guys flesh out their characters in the ring and from what they’re doing week to week. Wheeler Yuta was mentioned. Over the last 18 months we’ve seen him go from Best Friends trainee to earning a spot with the toughest guys in the company because of his characters fearlessness and strength of character. I don’t need JR to tell me he’s “tougher than a two dollar steak.” Dude wrote out the name of the faction he was trying to join in his own blood on his chest. 

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I'm more of a "show don't tell" guy so I think the PAC stuff worked well. I think of it as a NJPW storytelling is done inring and not with a 20 minute HHH blab a thon. Now I did think the Jericho / Starks dueling promo segment was very well done, wasn't rushed no interrupted promo and I think this is something AEW should do more often.

Also both Yuta and Garcia have done promo explaining their motivations. Yuta told The Best Friends "Its not about being the Best Friend its about being the best wrestler!" and Garcia Idolized Bryan Danielson growing up but feels beholden to Jericho for helping him out financially after his car accident

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Orange Cassidy has to be the worst possible example you can use to try to make the point of AEW guys not having a distinct gimmicks. Literally the worst example. He doesn't have a "catchphrase" per se, but the nonchalant body language, the hands in the pockets, the shades, the phantom kicks, etc. are all very distinct and are why he's over far more so than his serious ring work (which is still really good). He stands out on the AEW roster because he only goes full speed for 10% of a match and lets his character work pop the crowd for other 90%.

 

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16 hours ago, Andrew POE! said:

Lucha del Mal Morte

is this 

A) proof that this is what the kids call a "bad faith take" because you're using intentionally butchered Spanish to trash a popular act when Google is but a click away?

B) a kind of tongue-in-cheek/awesome sounding name for a PWG card if EL GENERICO OSCURO ever shows up and wins the title?

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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16 minutes ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

I agree 100% except/also now I want this to actually be the storyline 

Yeah PAC absolutely would nail that promo. As far as I know Newcastle upon Tyne is a city of oil-scented haddock peddlers and Doombar-soaked would-be-adulterers when there aren't boats to build. Homeboy could literally come out to the Elvis Costello version of "Shipbuilding" for TV and switch it up to Robert Wyatt for title matches and PPVs and it would be right as rain.

Damn I gotta visit that town one day, sounds luv-lay.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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I just keep wanting PAC to lose his hair and essentially revamp his character as Don Logan from Sexy Beast. He should lose a title vs hair match to MJF and then come back as MJF's mentally shattered bodyguard and Max has him all spiffed up in the slacks and white short-sleeved buttondown and everything.

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18 hours ago, Andrew POE! said:

Here's another example to help illustrate my point: Pac has started grabbing a ringside hammer during matches and is expecting his tag partners in Lucha del Mal Morte (or whatever they are called) to do the same or cheat. But why? Only going by what the announcers are saying, I have nothing else to know why they are doing this. Has Pac done a promo asking his stable mates to do this? What motivation does he have to do any of this? Unless it's expressed, I have no clue as a viewer.

He did. There was a backstage promo, I believe on 11/2/22 Dynamite prior to Fenix vs Orange vs Luchasaurus, where Pac told Fenix to use the hammer if he really wanted revenge (this coming after Orange won the All Atlantic from PAC). Then in the match, Pac brought the hammer but Fenix refused it and got pinned. That's why next time around at Full Gear, Fenix did use the hammer to defeat the Elite. 

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