AEW Dynamite - 2/15/2023

[John from Cincinnati]

12 hours ago, Andrew POE! said:

If JLowe liked a MJF promo, it might be tolerable to watch. Then again it's also MJF as the supposed World champion in a midcard segment (I thought World Champions were supposed to be at the main event/end of the show?).

Mox and Kenny and Page worked openers and mains and in between. Why is MJF being held to a standard no other champion was? Heck, Punk was the top guy and was used to open hot many times and had promos in the middle. We all get it with your MJF hate-on and you're entitled to feel how you want as loudly as you want, but this is just silly. 

I also don't think there's much appetite for AEW to be a promotion with lengthy promo main events. But I guess Tony could try it more often if it would help you perceive MJF more credibly. 

[Craig H]

Thought Dynamite was pretty good, but with some clunkiness. Hangman vs Kip should have just been a 5 minute squash. Why even make it competitive? Kip isn't on his level. Have Hanger come out pissed off at being attacked and have him just lariat the shit out of Kip over and over again.

The announcement of the Acclaimed adding themselves to the tag titles match made me groan if only because rematch clauses are such a WWE thing to mention.

And while I liked the Texas Tornado match, I think I decided I don't like Texas Tornado matches in practice and they're better reserved for video games. It was a fun and wild brawl, but where's any mention of the BCC saying they're doing this for Danielson? More importantly, why don't the BCC help Danielson at all anymore?

[Log]

2 hours ago, hobo joe said:

AEW has a problem where there's three months between PPVs but they don't get around to building any matches until two weeks out.

I was recently thinking about this. On the one hand, I don't want three months of dueling promos or countless matches/tag matches involving two wrestlers set to face at the next ppv. On the other hand, starting feuds a week out from the show isn't great either.

I like the longer time between ppvs because we can get some mini-feuds and interesting one-off matches, but I agree that it'd be nice to find some sort of middle ground there.

[Log]

Oops. Bit of the doubly-post!

Edited February 16, 2023 by Log

[John from Cincinnati]

The best feud in AEW history, Punk vs MJF, started right after one PPV and went all the way to the next. It featured months of duelling promos and an all-time-great tag. Do with that what you will. 

[John from Cincinnati]

13 hours ago, Gordlow said:

It was refreshing to see so much classic chain wrestling in that tag match. (I hope I'm the first one to make that joke). 

Claudio owes you money. Sue him!

https://twitter.com/ClaudioCSRO/status/1626188110328393732

[Log]

1 minute ago, John from Cincinnati said:

The best feud in AEW history, Punk vs MJF, started right after one PPV and went all the way to the next. It featured months of duelling promos and an all-time-great tag. Do with that what you will. 

Yeah, I mean there's no hard and fast rule for how to do these things. But, if every single match at the next ppv involved a three-month feud, that might be a little much.

 

[Lawful Metal]

AEW badly needs a Royal Rumble type match and their own Wrestlemania.

I’d bring back the name All In for their Wrestlemania, and since they’ve been acknowledging Lucha Underground, steal Aztec Warfare for the PPV before it (Double or Nothing? You can keep the name Casino but do the Aztec Warfare concept).

[Craig H]

They have said in the past that Revolution is their WrestleMania, but it still doesn't help when people see All Out as that. So yeah, it would do them some good to distinguish one of their PPVs as the biggest one. 

And if American audiences weren't such shit and turned off by round robin tournaments, I'd say AEW should adopt the G1 as their special Royal Rumble thing. In all my life, I don't think I ever once had an issue following a round robin format.

Or better yet, and I almost hate to say it, use the Swiss format that Magic: the Gathering and other events use for their tournaments. Matches are selected randomly, the more you win the more you're paired up with others who are winning the same amount of matches, and then from that you get a final 4 single elimination tournament.

[John from Cincinnati]

3 minutes ago, Craig H said:

And if American audiences weren't such shit and turned off by round robin tournaments, I'd say AEW should adopt the G1 as their special Royal Rumble thing. In all my life, I don't think I ever once had an issue following a round robin format.

If people want to make bad-faith TNA-AEW comparisons, this would provide a great opportunity to talk about the Bound For Glory Series. 

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, John from Cincinnati said:

If people want to make bad-faith TNA-AEW comparisons, this would provide a great opportunity to talk about the Bound For Glory Series. 

Oh yeah, they did do that, didn't they?

Ok then, maybe just explore the 4 or 5 rounds of Swiss with a 4 man playoff at the end of it.

[Log]

I kind of think not having a "Wrestlemania" is a good thing. It doesn't tie you down to having to have one event be your biggest. If a program or storyline is organically getting hot in the lead up to any of your ppvs, you can pull the trigger instead of needing to hold it for a certain one.

I definitely see the argument for having one, though. It is helpful to be able to point to one event as your Super Bowl or whatever. I just think not having that gives you a little more freedom, booking-wise.

[Andrew POE!]

2 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Mox and Kenny and Page worked openers and mains and in between. Why is MJF being held to a standard no other champion was? Heck, Punk was the top guy and was used to open hot many times and had promos in the middle. We all get it with your MJF hate-on and you're entitled to feel how you want as loudly as you want, but this is just silly. 

I also don't think there's much appetite for AEW to be a promotion with lengthy promo main events. But I guess Tony could try it more often if it would help you perceive MJF more credibly. 

The problem is the presentation - all the names you mentioned were / are stars (although Page less so of a star and honestly both he and MJF look the same with their title reigns).

Yes, it's true I'm probably too vocal about hating MJF - I don't hate him per se, I just don't think he's ready no matter how many promos he does or his presence on the mic or his character. I'm just finding I want him to go away. I'm an old school fan who is simply not enamored with him like J*m C*rn*tte is.

If MJF wants to be taken seriously as a main eventer, he needs to do the work to get there and stay there. It doesn't matter how I view MJF and whether I view him as having credibility or not. What matters is how lapsed AEW fans view him. What matters is how fans watching WWE or Impact or hell even NWA or NJPW view him. What matters is how current AEW fans view and it will...*ding* lead to them buying PPVs where he is main eventing them. What matters is AEW attendance and hopefully the show in Laredo is a misnomer for attendance at AEW shows.

He would go a long way towards this if he said, "you know what, I'm going to wrestle in a NJPW ring and be part of G1 Climax!" It's not about the 'five star matches,' it's about the wrestling. MJF has an ability on the mic that a veteran mouthpiece / manager could provide direction on and an ability in the ring that actually wrestling different style of oponents would help. MJF just has to be willing to listen and not think he doesn't need to learn.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Andrew POE!

[elizium]

4 hours ago, JLowe said:

Thing is, does MJF really have the love and respect of the locker room? He fucked over Wardlow big time and ruined his huge moment. He doesn’t really work with the other guys, saving himself for a special attraction.

But MJF doesn't book himself. The will he-won't he show up/booked a flight was an angle. The promo the next night and the walking out was an angle. Did it hurt Wardlow? Maybe, but that isn't MJF, that's Khan. Tony is the one trying to make him a special attraction. I think people are falling for MJF's character if they think he is backstage pulling strings like he's WCW Hogan.

[Andrew POE!]

45 minutes ago, elizium said:

But MJF doesn't book himself. The will he-won't he show up/booked a flight was an angle. The promo the next night and the walking out was an angle. Did it hurt Wardlow? Maybe, but that isn't MJF, that's Khan. Tony is the one trying to make him a special attraction. I think people are falling for MJF's character if they think he is backstage pulling strings like he's WCW Hogan.

I'm not completely convinced will he/won't he showing up/booking a flight/promo/walk out was an angle. If it is, it makes AEW look bad, it makes Tony Khan look bad, and makes MJF look unprofessional (not that he cares how he's perceived, but I can't imagine too many people are in a hurry to want to wrestle him). That coupled with CM Punk's press scrum (which again wasn't an angle) and MJF coming back at the Casino Battle Royale was an audible in response to CM Punk.

I don't think MJF books himself, but I think he got sick of being in AEW and was going to sit out his contract until his release before Punk happened.

[elizium]

MJF came back at the same event as the press scrum. I think its pretty clear that he was always supposed to come back and challenge Punk, but Punk got hurt the day after Double or Nothing at the same Dynamite that MJF "walked out" on.

My belief is that MJF was supposed to dick off for a month and then would have returned either at the end of Forbidden Door or a big Dynamite around then, to challenge Punk for the title at All Out. Instead Punk gets hurt, so they have MJF chill until Punk comes back to win the title and challenge him then.

MJF was never going to sit out for 2 years until his contract was up.

Edited February 16, 2023 by elizium

[caley]

I love that in the span of a month the AEW Originals vs...Freelancers (Did I hear Tony say that last night?!) feud started with Toni/Saraya being subtly heel-ish and morphed into Yelling-at-the-crowd-tearing-up-signs-spraypainting Toni's ass...? Like there was no room for subtley there. I think a couple more weeks of Saraya doing promos that trashed the originals somewhat accidentally (Like what she basically did her first 3-4 months though not on purpose) with the odd cheap win would have made more sense than to go from "We love it in AEW! This is where competition is!" is to "Losers!" in the span of a couple weeks. 

Actually I think the whole feud is pretty stupid, because they can't say WWE or even really allude to WWE. And Toni's whole deal was underutilized in WWE to maximizing her potential as a world champ and now suddenly she's...anti...AEW?! I  don't know why AEW can only run one women's angle at a time. NXT has 2 hours of TV time a week, but somehow still run 3-4 women's angles at a time with one less set of women's titles (Women's World/Tag Titles vs AEW World/TBS/ROH titles). 

Mark Briscoe looked great here. I was wondering if you could run an angle where one of his former opponents offers to be his partner to defend the titles. then turns on Mark after losing the match to what would be absolutely NUCLEAR heat or if that would be a "too soon" bit of booking. I actually think the ROH World Title should go Claudio -> Rush -> and then Mark Briscoe at Final Battle.

Satam Singh's strut behind Jay Lethal was amazing but Lethal didn't seem to know he was doing it and cut him off too fast!

Alas, the cringiest thing on the episode was that backstage Bucks/Omega promo. Just dreadful stuff.

[HarryArchieGus]

A fun, if a bit sloppy, 8 Man opener. It kinda felt like the crowd died a little from Caster's less than sensitive rap. Not to say it was so bad or in bad taste, but I don't think it helped the heat here. Jeff Jarrett is so great in this role. I suspect the compassion for his loss will lead to more of our posters dropping their past baggage with him and recognizing the beauty of his Mempho game. Roosh!!! He's such a truly believable heel. This tornado was never going to be anything but what it was - terrific! Young Vance needs some reps, but he pulled his weight here. Jose never ceases to impress. If Claudio v Roosh is where we're going then let me aboard. Dug Kip, Butcher and Blade laying a beating on Hanger - nice simple set-up. Wardlow sitdown was fine, but they really oughta drop the completely unnecessary and corny score. So too the unsuitable (tho amusing) musical selection for the Gunns promo. I'm with @Dean on Mark Briscoe's potential as their next big sympathetic babyface. Josh Woods has quietly come a long way, but can somebody get him a 'respectable' pair of tights. The Adam Cole sitdown was fine, but would have been better off having bit more of a point. Nice promo segment with MJF. I especially loved the International feed portion - cussing out of the Laredo crowd. I don't want to say Christopher Daniels has thus far been misused in AEW, as he seems to have had an important position backstage, but... on camera, I really hope they give him a heel turn, a microphone, better gear and a proper Prophecy faction (in the ROH relaunch). Terrific stuff here. Tho, it wouldn't have hurt if they'd had a bit more of a physical exchange before going down to the 'master of the Fujiwara Armbar' - I like Max, I just don't buy that part of his act.  And then yet another strong Brian Cage performance for all the unjustified haters. Jungle Jack's still on point. Ugh, tighten up the officiating tho - Nana interference without consequence? Well, I guess it is unfortunately on brand. Goddamn is it every great to see Chris't-yen! I was fully ready to register some butthurt complaints on the Acclaimed not getting a rematch, but then Bowens cut a good little promo, and all was well. Er sorta, not a 4 way fan. This, Now, annual pair of Battle Royals to determine two challengers for the tag belts thing is, umm, fucking dumb, but I can't say I'm not amused. Ohhhh yeah, I'll take a Top Fox-Elite rematch! Can we please all WILL an AR Fox-Kenny singles bout into existence too? For the worst match in AEW televised history Hangman v Kip Sabian was pretty good! I was fully ready to see Kip Sabian move along to the Indies, but he seems to be slowly starting to figure something out recently. I like this trio with Butcher and Blade, but then, everybody seems to work well with those consummate Pros. Daniel Garcia is good on the mic. I look forward to his bout with Starks. Haha, love Hook being suspended pending an investigation. The 3 Way main was fine. Special thanks to Saraya for just blatantly jumping in the ring to remind everybody that 3 ways are completely illogical. Why not just cheat from the beginning? I wish I did, but I don't quite see Any reason to care which side Ruby Soho picks. The Women's Division has been a lot stronger in ring, but this Main Event storyline could certainly use to improve. Ruby gesturing the air title belt seemed to lack confidence, and for good reason. But sure, I'll enjoy watching our heroic champion take her to the mat. All of that to say, as per usual, I had a helluva lot fun watching this show. Some big matches on the horizon!

Edited February 17, 2023 by HarryArchieGus

[tbarrie]

10 hours ago, Craig H said:

The announcement of the Acclaimed adding themselves to the tag titles match made me groan if only because rematch clauses are such a WWE thing to mention.

Yeah, that was bad. I mean, I have nothing against the standard rematch clause in principal. But we're like four years into AEW with no hint that AEW title match contracts have any such thing. So the Acclaimed suddenly being able to "invoke" such a clause to change the title match makes no sense.

[Go2Sleep]

I hope "rematch clauses" don't become a thing in AEW. I like championship feuds that end after one match. They should've just said Tony Khan is granting the Acclaimed an automatic entry into the match due to the circumstances of their loss. I'm not a huge on fatal 4-way tag matches either, but with an Iron Man main, you have to cram a lot of other people into a tight space so I get it. I didn't get a good look at the graphics to see who's likely to get the other two spots. I'm guessing Top Flight then either the Bucks or Claudio/Yuta.

 

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

On 2/15/2023 at 11:35 PM, Andrew POE! said:

Hard to believe that a little over two years ago, AEW had noticeably nearly full arenas. Gee I wonder why (maybe CM Punk is worth the trouble despite him being a professional disaster).

Punk debuted 8/20/21.  He was barely there a year and was injured for 3 months of it.

Just watched the show.  Avoided spoilers for over 24 hours.  First Dynamite in a long time that when it was over I felt like I could have skipped it without missing much at all.  Oh well, they'd been on a hot streak of shows and crowds, was bound to end sometime.

Mox was split in two places (eye and forehead) and he's definitely reached the scar tissue and overblading stage where a well aimed knuckle will bust him open.  Props to Preston Vance for the gusher.  Kind of a waste, but he doesn't get on Dynamite much.  And hey, I think the camera man managed to keep off the blade this time!  This match was much better on paper than in execution.

Why aren't they loading the fuck out of Rampage leading into the All-Star Friday stuff?  Potentially some new eyes on the product, not the card I would put on, even if I understand the logic behind each match (trios spotfest, showcase for Swerve vs. Dustin who everyone knows and who's brother is main eventing Mania, Jade being Jade).  Just like with the lackluster Battle of the Belts shows, I don't get Tony sometimes

Kinda weird that Lucha Bros haven't been on TV since losing match 7 and they just show up randomly to help Mark Briscoe.  There's a story there with the brother tag teams if they want to explore it.

I thought Wardlow's story was simple and effective.  Great motivation for him, it was totally new and out of nowhere, and it makes Joe into an even bigger dick.  I've been really into Joe's character since his heel turn, Wardlow not so much, this worked for me.

Edited February 17, 2023 by ExcellenceofAirPollution

[John from Cincinnati]

50 minutes ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

Punk debuted 8/20/21.  He was barely there a year and was injured for 3 months of it.

So keep him from stage diving or getting too aerial. There's still gold in them thar hills. 

[zendragon]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:43 PM, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

 

- The Gunns could be interesting as tag champs, but is there an obvious program there? Can they deliver in-ring? Would someone buy Top Flight and the Gunns as the top tag program in the company?

 

- Don't really care for The Elite and their stuff, unless we're getting Punk and FTR. Wasn't Hangman supposed to do something with them weeks ago that never happened? Kinda wanna see where Adam Cole ends up amongst all this? I could go for a HOB program, and the need for everyone to come together to fight the big bad.

 

Given the way TK books (face loses the first match in a feud in order to get the bigger win down the road) I expect the Gunns to drop the belts back to The Acclaimed down the road

 

On 2/15/2023 at 5:39 AM, Matt D said:

•  
• Toni Storm vs. Ruby Soho vs. Dr. Britt Baker, D.M.D.: We're still reeling from Sasha not showing up, right? And the Shida stuff feels weird. And pulling Britt from the last time they tried this was a setback. And the Beautiful People/NWO spraypainting seems so far away from what AEW's women's division has been for the last couple of years. Very WWE "catty females" syndrome. I blame Saraya. Anyway, wherever this is going, it really ought to get there soon.

I guess it fits with the "outsiders" gimmick they are doing. What's weird is that Shida has the WHICH SIDE IS SHE ON?  gimmick before pivoting to Rubys

 

On 2/15/2023 at 7:52 PM, Andrew POE! said:

I hope Tony Khan calls Dory Funk Jr or someone who actually knows the rules of Texas Death Matches before Jon Moxley vs. Hangman Page takes place. Texas Deathmatch ISN'T 'hardcore match and oh yeah they have until the count of 10 to stand up.' It's supposed to be a standard wrestling match with as many pinfalls/submissions that take place until the guy can't answer the ref's 10 count.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOH_EXLwZq8

Over all a middling show full of perfectly acceptable wrestling with The Mark Briscoe match probably being the best

[zendragon]

On 2/15/2023 at 8:31 PM, JLowe said:

<Hager voice> I LIKE this show.

Opener was a lot of fun, other than maybe burying Singh (who bumps like a guy 2/3 his size) a bit. Bowens gets to shine, we get a lot of comedy, the faces win and get to scissor.

Texas Tornado match was hella fun. Vance was the weak link but hit a .4 Ruby and didn’t look lost. Crowd brawl to start was kind of weak, mostly walking around. I think we’re maybe getting Claudio-Rush at the ROH PPV and that might get my money.

Briscoe-Woods was also enjoyable, Mark is fun and I’m a fan of Woods and wish he got to be more of a Steiner Brothers mashup. Also, I had been thinking recently that I wasn’t missing the Lucha Brothers so OF COURSE.

Best MJF promo I’ve seen, an actual excellent traditional heel promo and I, wondering who wrote the script for him. Chris Daniels comes out to do a 5 minute promo for the upcoming ROH programming. Also, that reminds me how awesome the bloody taped post-match Danielson promo was, take my money.

Perry-Cage was a match that happened and a post-match angle that happened. Funny to see them slowly phasing out “Jungle Boy”, but will the fans rebel if they get rid of Tarzana?

Sabian-Page was also a match that happened. Post-match was top notch work from Mox and solid work from Page, more take my money. Also, I can’t take Evil Uno seriously as a badass. I watch Dark/Elevation.

I guess Sabian and Swolverine serve a role as JTTS but I’m tired of them. I don’t have that AEW original loyalty, and in fact was shocked to find out that Kip Sabian was pushed early on.

Main was a perfectly fine 3-way in the way that there’s a lot of action, a lot of shenanigans, and a lot of awkwardness. I kind of expected Thunder Rosa. Saraya is cringe. Ruby deserves a belt, but with Jade squatting on the TNT title and Athena kicking ass with ROH, not sure what there is for her.

I appreciate that they acknowledged the previous match between Cage and Perry. Ruby should win the Women's Owen

 

On 2/15/2023 at 9:33 PM, BrianS81177 said:

The day after my dad died, I could barely bring myself to go out and interact with people in simple manners like grocery shopping. I can't imagine performing live in front of thousands of people while hundreds of thousands more watched on TV.

I know I feel better mentally when I keep myself busy, maybe that's the same for Jeff and Mark

 

On 2/15/2023 at 9:13 PM, Phantom Lord said:

 

The main event was all right. I don't get this story of outsiders vs. originals. Trying to have Ruby caught in the middle makes no real sense.

 

Well Ruby did "runaway" from the other place, so it kinda makes sense 

[DreamBroken]

20 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

I didn't get a good look at the graphics to see who's likely to get the other two spots. I'm guessing Top Flight then either the Bucks or Claudio/Yuta.

 

I think they only showed 5 or 6 teams in the graphic on Dynamite, but it was fully fleshed out on Rampage. My initial pick was Jarrett & Lethal, but they did add Aussie Open

Teams shown in the graphic are: Best Friends, Rush & Preston, Jarrett & Lethal, Lucha Bros, Butcher & Blade, Parker & Menard, Dark Order, Nese & Daivari, Top Flight, & Aussie Open