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February 2023 Wrestling Discussion

The Natural

By The Natural
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Would they have been as reliable as Heyman and willing to promote a product that catered to numerous demographics? Everyone else at the time were the erratic cokeheads like Herb Abrams, Joel Goodhart etc, or guys like Cornette and Corraluzzo who just wanted to produce throwback shows for their own enjoyment. Throw in between a series of money marks who didn't have the connections or expertise to run shows frequently enough or sustainably. 

Also difficult to consider where Memphis fits in here, given they were propped up by Vince just as much as Heyman and Cornette were.

 

I think the guys who really are fucked are the folks who needed ECW like Douglas who burned every bridge. He probably would have just did wrestling part time until WWF came calling. All the guys who were enhancement talent before ECW like the Pitbulls, Saturn, Mahoney, Devito, Jason, etc. probably become indy journeymen. Guys like Raven, Lynn, and PJ Polaco don't have a place to rehab their career. Public Enemy doesn't fool anyone into giving them contracts.

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Dolphman 3000

Dolphman 3000

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3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I think the guys who really are fucked are the folks who needed ECW like Douglas who burned every bridge. He probably would have just did wrestling part time until WWF came calling. All the guys who were enhancement talent before ECW like the Pitbulls, Saturn, Mahoney, Devito, Jason, etc. probably become indy journeymen. Guys like Raven, Lynn, and PJ Polaco don't have a place to rehab their career. Public Enemy doesn't fool anyone into giving them contracts.

Sabu would have never come to ECW in late 1993 if Heyman hadn't called him, so that means Sabu signs with WWE after his October 1993 tryout

No idea if Rob Van Dam ever hits it big without ECW - probably gets a WWE tryout through Sabu at some point

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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53 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Sabu would have never come to ECW in late 1993 if Heyman hadn't called him, so that means Sabu signs with WWE after his October 1993 tryout

No idea if Rob Van Dam ever hits it big without ECW - probably gets a WWE tryout through Sabu at some point

The most intriguing group is the group who ended up transitioned successfully to WWE and could be considered ECW originals.

Taz probably wouldn't even have the run he had without Heyman building him up. I saw something in an old Observer, which I am assuming had to be bad info (it was corrected in the next edition but never clarified if there was any truth to it), that he was going to be Kwang right before Savio did it. It's hilarious to think about and potentially a career destroyer, but how would he have gotten to WWF without randomly getting assigned a bad gimmick otherwise? If his career didn't take off in ECW, it's possible he just becomes a guy who bounces around and probably gets quick look in WCW.

The Dudleys....man what are Bubba and Devon if they don't drop into what was an otherwise throwaway lower mid card act with just some dudes and turn it into something wildly entertaining? 

I just saw RVD's match with Phil LaFon/Dan Kroffat from the same card as that unbelievable Misawa/Kobashi vs. Holy Demon Army match in June 1995. I think he gets a look or two just because what he was doing was so different at the time.

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zendragon

zendragon

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6 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Does the MNW even happen if there's not a significant third promotion for most of these guys? Does Austin end up on the radar without the ECW stint? Does Foley continue working Japan/money mark independents instead? Does WCW have the roster to justify the second hour of Nitro without Benoit/Guerrero/Malenko/Jericho/Rey/Psicosis being as well known as they were?

Is there that much of a counter-culture that actively protests against the Hogan superhero babyface that warrants the need for Hogan to turn heel?

 

Jericho (And LONCE) probably get sent to WWF from SMW along with all the job guys with jobs (and probably end up back in Japan). Benoit has a WWF tryout around 93... maybe he gets picked up

 

2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The most intriguing group is the group who ended up transitioned successfully to WWE and could be considered ECW originals.

Taz probably wouldn't even have the run he had without Heyman building him up. I saw something in an old Observer, which I am assuming had to be bad info (it was corrected in the next edition but never clarified if there was any truth to it), that he was going to be Kwang right before Savio did it. It's hilarious to think about and potentially a career destroyer, but how would he have gotten to WWF without randomly getting assigned a bad gimmick otherwise? If his career didn't take off in ECW, it's possible he just becomes a guy who bounces around and probably gets quick look in WCW.

The Dudleys....man what are Bubba and Devon if they don't drop into what was an otherwise throwaway lower mid card act with just some dudes and turn it into something wildly entertaining? 

I just saw RVD's match with Phil LaFon/Dan Kroffat from the same card as that unbelievable Misawa/Kobashi vs. Holy Demon Army match in June 1995. I think he gets a look or two just because what he was doing was so different at the time.

Maybe if Heyman goes to WWF gets vinces ear he gets Taz the Supreme Fighting Machine gimmick

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Dolphman 3000

Dolphman 3000

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With Sabu and 123 Kid around, I could see Jerry Lynn coming aboard and then WWE's Light Heavyweight division takes off a few years early. Bret would probably use his pull to make sure Owen was a star of that.

I think Sabu breaking tables was a ECW thing that Heyman saw once and kept paying him to repeat, so assuming that never happens and Sabu doesn't incorporate it into his gimmick, we probably never get TLC matches.

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Casey

Casey

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Infinit said:

Does anyone subscribe to Fite+?

I do. Obviously the main selling point for most people is GCW (past shows and live/future shows + the Collective). But there is some good stuff on there. I still think Wrestling Revolver is the better promotion, and you've got stuff like Garden State too (absolutely insane cards). Plus they add some NOAH events, too. Insane value $5 a month, honestly worth it just for the plethora of GCW content and getting stuff like the Collective in March.

I wanted to keep my IW.TV sub but the only thing I watched on there was Billie Starkz vs Sawyer Wreck in a no ring match from Nashville, and their Life Of series. A LOT of stuff on there, but the price isn't right for me. Maybe when they have a ton of All Japan Women's content.

Edited by Casey
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Log

Log

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12 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Does the MNW even happen if there's not a significant third promotion for most of these guys? Does Austin end up on the radar without the ECW stint? Does Foley continue working Japan/money mark independents instead? Does WCW have the roster to justify the second hour of Nitro without Benoit/Guerrero/Malenko/Jericho/Rey/Psicosis being as well known as they were?

Is there that much of a counter-culture that actively protests against the Hogan superhero babyface that warrants the need for Hogan to turn heel?

 

I think you bring up a great point about the Monday Night Wars. If there's no ECW as we know it, Vince never gets the push he needs to go Attitude. We can talk about the stars that made the WWF win happen, and that's valid, but it was also the change in presentation. That was the time of South Park, Girls Gone Wild, etc. A ton of the reason WWF became "cool" around that time was that it was riding that wave. I'm not sure that happens without Heyman doing it first (on a smaller scale) and showing Vince that wrestling fans would be into it.

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Casey

Casey

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31 minutes ago, Craig H said:

They should just rename TLC the CT Crunch match.

Nah, just get the TLC Channel to sponsor it.

Actually that’s more likely to be something AEW does with their constant WBD synergy.

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Zakk_Sabbath

Zakk_Sabbath

Posted
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3 hours ago, Casey said:

Nah, just get the TLC Channel to sponsor it.

Actually that’s more likely to be something AEW does with their constant WBD synergy.

I'd love if somehow Kris Statlander ended up on 90 Day Fiance, but instead of dealing with the cultural differences between an American and say, a Filipino, its between human and alien. 

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GuerrillaMonsoon

GuerrillaMonsoon

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6 hours ago, Log said:

I think you bring up a great point about the Monday Night Wars. If there's no ECW as we know it, Vince never gets the push he needs to go Attitude. We can talk about the stars that made the WWF win happen, and that's valid, but it was also the change in presentation. That was the time of South Park, Girls Gone Wild, etc. A ton of the reason WWF became "cool" around that time was that it was riding that wave. I'm not sure that happens without Heyman doing it first (on a smaller scale) and showing Vince that wrestling fans would be into it.

I could see Heyman ending up in the spot Scott Levy was in around 1994, where he ends up on the writing team in charge of one of the Saturday morning shows.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a prototype of Shotgun Saturday Night occurring early, and as was the case with the ECW relaunch, Heyman's creative freedom gets neutered after eight weeks and they go back to doing the same thing at country club gyms. Whether that's the impetus for him quitting and doing his own thing elsewhere I don't know. 

I'm guessing the nature of his termination from Turner and the subsequent lawsuit he wouldn't have been welcome back there either. 

The other issue is that if there's no ECW around that time, I wonder who gets the Tommy Boy Records money. Or if Rick Rubin bankrolls SMW harder if they're a genuine #3

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AxB

AxB

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I remember reading somewhere that the deal with Lanny Poffo's WCW deal was, they offered Randy Savage $1 million a year, and he said no, give me $850,000 and give my brother $150,000. And they got so much bad press and mockery for having him under contract and never using him.

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