Elimination Chamber XIII - 2/18/2023

[Kang]

Austin Theory's next  U.S. title defense is vs Edge.

[Niners Fan in CT]

People have to remember.. the story is not just Cody conquering Roman to win the belt his father never could..  the story is about The Bloodline crumbling around Roman. His protective shield is damaged and Cody is there to exploit that.

[Eivion]

32 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

For those saying they had to give Sami the title. What's the story moving forward with Sami as champion?

Realistically? There are numerous guys he could defend against that would make for a fresh matches and feuds at this point that Sami either hasn't faced or faced in years on his own, let alone as a face. Its pretty much the same with Cody.

I see this talking point occasionally and it never really makes much sense. What story are you exactly looking for? WWE telling bad stories with Kofi and Bryan's reigns had little to do with nothing there to tell as a story and more to do with WWE just doing a bad job. 

Honestly, regardless of which guy wins it feels like either should be losing the belt to Gunther come Summerslam or Survivor Series this year anyways. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Eivion

[Cobra Commander]

1 hour ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

For those saying they had to give Sami the title. What's the story moving forward with Sami as champion?

Johnny Knoxville gets a WWE title match so Sami can get his win back

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

42 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Realistically? There are numerous guys he could defend against that would make for a fresh matches and feuds at this point that Sami either hasn't faced or faced in years on his own, let alone as a face. Its pretty much the same with Cody.

I see this talking point occasionally and it never really makes much sense. What story are you exactly looking for? WWE telling bad stories with Kofi and Bryan's reigns had little to do with nothing there to tell as a story and more to do with WWE just doing a bad job. 

Honestly, regardless of which guy wins it feels like either should be losing the belt to Gunther come Summerslam or Survivor Series this year anyways. 

I guess two points to it - 

1) there are guys' stories where the money is exclusively in the chase. Foley, Bryan and Zayn are all in that category.

2) WWE have not been in the market for years of building to a particular match as a UFC or WBF would and framing a story around it. They have, probably since the Monday Night Wars written stories for TV and worked the matches around it. 

Plenty of great matches for Zayn to have, but as far as anything for a storyline where he is now the centre of the narrative for months at a time, nay years, as the Bloodline has been able to do, I'm not sure (although I really like LWPs effort).

Keep the Reigns train a rolling

[Eivion]

3 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I guess two points to it - 

1) there are guys' stories where the money is exclusively in the chase. Foley, Bryan and Zayn are all in that category.

2) WWE have not been in the market for years of building to a particular match as a UFC or WBF would and framing a story around it. They have, probably since the Monday Night Wars written stories for TV and worked the matches around it. 

Plenty of great matches for Zayn to have, but as far as anything for a storyline where he is now the centre of the narrative for months at a time, nay years, as the Bloodline has been able to do, I'm not sure (although I really like LWPs effort).

Keep the Reigns train a rolling

I guess my point is I don't really see Cody or anyone else being better off right now in that respect. We aren't getting another Bloodline level story for years, potentially decades, if ever again. Roman is great, but it feels like we are at the end with there not being much they can really do to extend his reign while keeping things interesting.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Agreed on that Cody isn't the answer here

[Just Dave]

This was ass. You can pretty much stick a fork in Judgement Day. Mens Chamber was a dogshit taco. I continue to be stumped by what wwe sees in Austin Theory. My Theory; this guy sucks ass. 

[Thunder Down Under]

Reigns really has been built up strong enough that dropping the title to Zayn in a fluke loss and quickly getting it back either on Raw or SD wouldn’t have hurt his eventual decisive loss, and would’ve helped Zayn the most given the circs. The elevation he’d have gotten even with a fluke is better than any possible outcome they have going forward. As it is now, there is no possible way to recapture the heat/moment that he had leading into EC. 

It’s one thing for fans to care/notice title streaks etc, but for promotions to base their booking around it is the height of stupidity. If the number is all that counts, why bother with the decisive victory for him in the end after giving his opponent a visible victory/excuse for losing. If you want him to be super dominant in addition to the number of days, why bother with the visible victory/excuse for the loser? That sort of inconsistency leads to unsatisfying finishes like this.  Even if you absolutely had to keep the title in Reigns at this show, a count out victory for Sami (say via Helluva Kicking Reigns out of the ring and Reigns not beating the 10 count back) would’ve popped the crowd way bigger and sent them home happier than what they did after the pinfall and kept everybody as strong going out as they came in.

Taking an even wider view, a Reigns loss leading to a rematch this week would’ve likely finally helped make the most of the Fox deal/platform. So few people are presented on the weekly shows as big stars. While not Montreal, a quick rematch this week would still likely have a fair amount of heat to it. Sami being presented as champion in that environment on that platform would’ve done more for him than anything they can do now. Just another in the long line of missed opportunities by this company over the years.

[Andrew POE!]

4 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

I'm gonna go with the canon that the WWE referees notice how much the crowd is into the match and they're not inclined to end the match on a cheap DQ because they think that would disappoint the crowd. Sorta like how officials in other sports can almost get worked by the crowd or atmosphere. That they're gonna give Sami the chance to pin or get pinned.

Anyways... I still want a bullshit Brock Lesnar vs Bray Wyatt feud where Brock is Sid destroying the Barbershop over and over and Bray is trying to tell us that Brock Lesnar can't destroy his way out of this mess. A feud that is basically the world's dumbest repetitive roleplaying game.

They could have Brock Lesnar do the 2nd Firefly Funhouse match where it becomes performance art and Lesnar sees his younger self then Lesnar realizes what he's become and breaks down and cries.

Then again, that's a really terrible idea.

[StuntmanCrowley]

7 minutes ago, Andrew POE! said:

They could have Brock Lesnar do the 2nd Firefly Funhouse match where it becomes performance art and Lesnar sees his younger self then Lesnar realizes what he's become and breaks down and cries.

Then again, that's a really terrible idea.

I love Wyatt and think this is a phenomenal idea lol

 

Brock having to take his younger self to Suplex City would be hilarious 

Edited February 19, 2023 by StuntmanCrowley

[southofheavy]

Sami beats Reigns tonight. 

In a couple of weeks, Roman invokes his rematch clause. Jey turns on Sami. Roman gets his belt back, they chair Sami to death the way they did Kevin Owens. 

Bloodline reign of terror leading up to Mania. 

Sami and Kevin beat the Usos for the belts on Night 1. 

Cody wins on Night 2. (Or not.)

Bloodline completely falls apart over the summer. 

Jey vs Roman at Summerslam. Jey wins. 

Roman takes a vacay. Comes back for a face run. 

Or, they could've just had Jey turn on Sami tonight. 

Regardless, seeing Sami and Roman not even have to lock up for the first three or so minutes because the crowd was going that nuts was a goddamn marvel to behold. Though the ending was disappointing, that match ROCKED up until the overbooking kicked in. 

 

[Andrew POE!]

31 minutes ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I love Wyatt and think this is a phenomenal idea lol

 

Brock having to take his younger self to Suplex City would be hilarious 

He also has to relive the crowd booing him and Goldberg out of the building at WrestleMania with Bray Wyatt as Goldberg, The Next Big Thing Brock with Bray as Paul Heyman, Brock leaving the WWE to try for the NFL then going to UFC with Bray as "David Whote" (can't say Dana White or mention UFC) promising him the moon then Vince McMahon puppet also doing the same, Brock beating the Streak at WrestleMania and Bray Wyatt Undertaker saying how that was a meaningless move anyway (complete with Shocked Face Fan on screen), then Brock giving F5's to everyone (Vince McMahon puppet, Bray Wyatt Goldberg, Bray Wyatt Heyman, Bray Wyatt David Whote, Bray Wyatt Undertaker, Bray Wyatt Michael Cole) and finally to...himself. Brock Lesnar breaks down and cries before doing the F5 on his younger self.

Brock after doing this, lays in the same spot as John Cena did before disappearing.

Like I said, very stupid idea but the WWE is out of ideas so it's good enough I guess.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Andrew POE!

[peterien]

I thought that KO/Zayn taking the tag titles at WM would be a perfect ending for Sami’s story….until last night.

After last night i now think it doesn’t make that much sense and definitely feels like a consolation prize. I also realise that Sami winning the world titles isn’t going to do the business Cody would as champion (unless you run every show for the next year in Canada) but I just don’t think Cody winning the title in tribute to Dusty is the right end to Romans story. 

Cody (in kayfabe terms) doesn’t deserve it. 
 

EDIT; as far as the match itself went- those fuckers had me, I was convinced Sami was winning. Roman gave Sami everything and make him look like a star. The actual ending was a tad overbooked and drawn out but those near falls were something else. 
KO got to be Steve Austin in front of his people and it was awesome. 

Did Roman just get up and walk out after the last Helluva kick? I definitely think Roman would have wanted to drop the belts to Sami.

Edited February 19, 2023 by peterien

[StuntmanCrowley]

53 minutes ago, southofheavy said:

Regardless, seeing Sami and Roman not even have to lock up for the first three or so minutes because the crowd was going that nuts was a goddamn marvel to behold. Though the ending was disappointing, that match ROCKED up until the overbooking kicked in. 

 

This sentiment right here is why im let down by the end.  It didn't need all of that.  

[StuntmanCrowley]

27 minutes ago, Andrew POE! said:

He also has to relive the crowd booing him and Goldberg out of the building at WrestleMania with Bray Wyatt as Goldberg, The Next Big Thing Brock with Bray as Paul Heyman, Brock leaving the WWE to try for the NFL then going to UFC with Bray as "David Whote" (can't say Dana White or mention UFC) promising him the moon then Vince McMahon puppet also doing the same, Brock beating the Streak at WrestleMania and Bray Wyatt Undertaker saying how that was a meaningless move anyway (complete with Shocked Face Fan on screen), then Brock giving F5's to everyone (Vince McMahon puppet, Bray Wyatt Goldberg, Bray Wyatt Heyman, Bray Wyatt David Whote, Bray Wyatt Undertaker, Bray Wyatt Michael Cole) and finally to...himself. Brock Lesnar breaks down and cries before doing the F5 on his younger self.

Brock after doing this, lays in the same spot as John Cena did before disappearing.

Like I said, very stupid idea but the WWE is out of ideas so it's good enough I guess.

Well. I want to see this now.

[Matt D]

I'm a little disappointed at some people's lack of imagination on how a Sami run would successfully work.

Basically, exactly like Austin's 98 run where he's not supposed to be champ and the universe is conspiring against him. It's about Sami having to find a way to overcome Gunther, Brock, Lashley. It's about Sami and the fans having pulled one over on fate and this cinderella story happening and him working hard and dreaming and fighting to keep it alive when it's defying all the odds, the notion that the fans are lucky to be alive in this moment when this thing is happening which is a downright miracle and wondering just how long they can ride the miracle with Sami.

Of course, other than Austin in 98, it's something WWE is uniquely terrible at. But Sami is bigger than Rey so....

Now that's not saying I thought they'd do it or even that they should do it, but it's their own damn fault for booking themselves into a corner with "the greatest story ever told" or whatever, and then not having the foresight or courage or perspective to realize exactly what they got themselves into.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Matt D

[For Great Justice]

I thought it was pretty on brand for Owens to come to the rescue…but not until Sami lost the match. Always the heel in the relationship and asshole friend of Sami’s in the back of his mind’s mind, KO’s subconscious can’t let him “out do” him and have that moment.

At least that’s how I rationalize it.

[Andrew POE!]

5 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I'm a little disappointed at some people's lack of imagination on how a Sami run would successfully work.

Basically, exactly like Austin's 98 run where he's not supposed to be champ and the universe is conspiring against him. It's about Sami having to find a way to overcome Gunther, Brock, Lashley. It's about Sami and the fans having pulled one over on fate and this cinderella story happening and him working hard and dreaming and fighting to keep it alive when it's defying all the odds, the notion that the fans are lucky to be alive in this moment when this thing is happening which is a downright miracle and wondering just how long they can ride the miracle with Sami.

Of course, other than Austin in 98, it's something WWE is uniquely terrible at. But Sami is bigger than Rey so....

Now that's not saying I thought they'd do it or even that they should do it, but it's their own damn fault for booking themselves into a corner with "the greatest story ever told" or whatever, and then not having the foresight or courage or perspective to realize exactly what they got themselves into.

The problem is WWE (and let's say it - Vince McMahon) sees Sami Zayn only as a midcarder. This is despite the overwhelming reaction Sami Zayn gets everywhere due to the Bloodline storyline. And the amount of merchandise Sami Zayn has now generated. And all that of merch and reactions lead to money but WWE doesn't want it or think they can make more sticking to what they are doing.

It goes back to a basic problem WWE has - unless it's someone they've picked, the crowd would have to practically mutiny every week (like they did with Daniel Bryan) before they changed the storyline and given the fans what they wanted.

A miracle run for Sami as World champion would work, would shake things up, and would break up the stale formula.

[StuntmanCrowley]

Like I said in a previous post.  Welcome back Vince.

[Mario]

Personally, I don’t think Sami is the guy to end Roman’s 2+ year run.  I’m much more interested in Sami/KO vs. the Usos - assuming that is the direction they go. With or without the title, Sami is in a much better spot than he was a year ago, so I don’t feel like it matters that much.  

Very surprised that I am interested in Seth vs. Logan Paul.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I would have had zero problem with WWE choosing Sami as the guy but how dismissive people here are being of Cody doesn't match the reality in every arena.  Cody is really over and so is the potential for Cody vs. Roman. 

Furthermore, let's say Jey Uso turns on Sami, that builds up the heat very nicely for a tag match but Jey Uso NOT TURNING on Sami also makes sense if you're paying attention. Jey Uso is conflicted on his relationship with Sami and his cousin Roman and always has been. He has potential as either a super over heel or a top babyface. 

[Hamhock]

There were moments during the multiple ref bumps/interference  where the crowd collectively groaned, and the reaction at the finish was sad silence more than booing; regardless of what anyone would prefer storyline-wise, these are things that should be avoided if you don’t want a half-filled building next time.

I swear there was a tiny moment right after the pinfall where it even felt like Reigns and Heyman (as people, not their characters) knew that it was a bad booking decision.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Hamhock

[Steventon]

I thought the match was..... OK. The crowd and atmosphere was electric, even if WWE were kinda forcing it by having the entrances go 20 fucking minutes. Sami is a great fired up babyface, amazing to think how far he has come from the indys, but the match was the same blah Roman title defence we've had for the last 2 years. 20 minutes of Roman talking, 5 minutes of hot nearfalls, then some schmozz for the finish. That first ref bump was especially bad, I mean I know WWE canon is that refs are made of glass but it was laughable how long he was out for for getting pushed into the corner. 2 ref bumps and 2 sets of interference is pretty stinko. The Bloodline story is good but its always the angles that happen after the match that seem to be the focus rather than the matches themselves.

 

I'm not someone who thinks you needed to have Sami win just because the crowd were hot, but after Drew at CATC this is the second time they had the opportunity to catch lightning in a bottle and instead decided to stay the path with the Reigns run. I get that, that's their plan and they have an end goal they are working towards. Is Cody beating Roman at Wrestlemania going to be as exciting as Sami winning here would have been? Or more exciting than Drew winning at a UK stadium would have been? Personally, no, but I get others may disagree. I just think they could have done something incredible and chose not to. My biggest concern and prediction right now is they have Jey cost Roman the title vs Cody, which would be a MASSIVE cop-out to not have Roman lose clean after this run.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Steventon

[Mario]

31 minutes ago, Hamhock said:

There were moments during the multiple ref bumps/interference  where the crowd collectively groaned, and the reaction at the finish was sad silence more than booing; regardless of what anyone would prefer storyline-wise, these are things that should be avoided if you don’t want a half-filled building next time.

I swear there was a tiny moment right after the pinfall where it even felt like Reigns and Heyman (as people, not their characters) knew that it was a bad booking decision.

I’ll take your word for it, but I rewatched the finish a half-hour ago and didn’t really notice much of that.  Crowd put heat on Roman (he is a cheating heel, after all) and perked up after KO came out and ran off the Bloodline.

i feel like the disconnect between the internet and the paying crowd (and probably tv audience) is going to be more noticeable than usual.  I don’t expect DVDVR regulars to accept anyone else except Sami as champ or admit Cody is hot right now.  Lol, it’ll be the Emperor’s New Clothes, 2K23 edition.

Personally, I don’t love the finish but the result is fine with me.  The finish was too overbooked for my liking.  Two ref bumps, two Usos, several chairs shots the ref managed not to see, multiple visual pins without a ref to count.  I guess they are going to use the “is-he-isn’t-he” story with Jey to drive tv ratings, but i would have preferred a decisive turn to set up the rumored tag match.

Obviously, all the people claiming Jey couldn’t get into Canada got worked.  Or just knew less than they thought they knew to begin with.  Maybe Usos used twin magic to cross the border.  Jimmy goes through customs, tosses his passport over a fence to Jey, and “Jimmy Uso” goes through customs for the second time in ten minutes.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Mario