SirSmUgly Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Dave Meltzer is a poor analyst and shouldn't even try. He's a wrestling version of Nate Silver in some ways. I just want Silver to analyze the data itself, not the reasons that the data is what it is. w/r/t Meltzer, just tell me what your sources are saying; don't try to analyze it. That goes for Alvarez, who is even more maddening than Meltzer because he comes off as assured of his own analytical talent, but actually I'm pretty sure he's a total fucking dolt. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Dynamite Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I hope for some fans, this is putting into perspective the different between what actual journalism looks like vs. the subscription-based gossip mongering that wrestling journos have leaned so hard into this year. I am so pleased these people look so stupid. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Adam Bay Bay Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I don’t see why Meltzer was reporting it anyhow. Amazon lost their shirt on the Thursday Night Football deal this year too. So clearly sports as a whole (including sports entertainment) aren’t money makers when you add in the rights fees being paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 54 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said: SRS says Triple H held the talent meeting and relayed that Vince is back to work on a sale and nothing will change with the creative process. Also: "Triple H did say that maybe he and Vince McMahon have conversations about creative, but Vince defers final say to Triple H." Nothing will change until it changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great ML Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said: Assuming this is telling everyone to calm down and nothing's happened yet. Or the exact opposite. Perhaps to show the vignette of when Adnan Al Kaissie bought the AWA contracts of Jerry Blackwell and Ken Patera from Bobby Heenan. “I want a hay-rem and awl wells,” said the turban clad Crusher from Stone Mountain. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph2112 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 What I've always heard/read was the "loss leader" stuff was creative bookkeeping and long term negotiation games corporations play. Really if you think about it logically, they've lost money every single year but will definitely be shelling out that big cash when the time comes. Here's an article about it too. https://medium.com/what-you-pay-for-sports/the-nfl-is-not-a-loss-leader-for-broadcasters-c69c0127a54d 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 21 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said: I hope for some fans, this is putting into perspective the different between what actual journalism looks like vs. the subscription-based gossip mongering that wrestling journos have leaned so hard into this year. I am so pleased these people look so stupid. Seconded, from an actual journalist who writes about finance. If I am writing an article about data or a news event. I get actual experts to talk about said data and their insights. I might have a little room for contextualization on my own if it is something I have written about a bunch, and I certainly will ask counterpoints to my sources, but it’s always best to leave it to others to do the “here is why.” Dave has added in so much conjecture so many times about why different things are happening with storylines or people’s pushes or punishments and etc. And his conjecture happens so quickly after something unfolds. It just makes me wonder if he actually has working knowledge of why something happened — someone told him — or if he is just making up a lot of stuff and he knows what his audience wants. I am also not a fan of him being a critic of the product while also being a journalist who covers events. Whether or not that leads to bias, there is an argument to be made that the more willing someone is as a source might lead to more favorable star ratings or Vice-versa and that can affect someone’s livelihood and bookings and etc. I don’t want to make it seem that I don’t like Dave. He’s written a wrestling trade publication longer than anyone and knows more about the industry than anyone. He does a great job with histories and the like. And he has certainly broken a lot of actual industry news. But there are a lot of things he does that don’t fly, and commenting on things outside of what he really knows is not a good look. But it is really not that hard for him to get an analyst report about a company (sometimes they are just available online but usually the company or the analyst himself will just send it to a reporter if asked.) There are almost always notes written by the analyst explaining his rationale. And I also talk to analysts all of the time. EX: I used to write about the energy industry for the energy industry equivalent of The Observer. I would get a report about sales figures for, say, Exxon from Morgan Stanley. I would quite the report and then either talk to the analyst on the phone or go back and forth with email questions. Sometimes I would discuss what I had been hearing from other sources. I do not have a WON subscription but has Dave ever done that for the WWE? There are literally people at a lot of big institutions whose job it is to go over the financial statements of the company and how it fits into the broader picture of the media landscape. Their names are even on the WWE’s website (since that is all disclosed.) None of this is secret research. And he is the one wrestling journalist I actually do respect because he has written for some big outlets and has talked with real sports journalists plenty of times. Anyone else writing about this stuff has absolutely no idea what the fuck they are talking about. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 34 minutes ago, Greggulator said: Seconded, from an actual journalist who writes about finance. When are you going to leverage your specialized knowledge into writing something for a legitimate publication about this crazy story? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Greggulator said: Seconded, from an actual journalist who writes about finance. If I am writing an article about data or a news event. I get actual experts to talk about said data and their insights. I might have a little room for contextualization on my own if it is something I have written about a bunch, and I certainly will ask counterpoints to my sources, but it’s always best to leave it to others to do the “here is why.” Dave has added in so much conjecture so many times about why different things are happening with storylines or people’s pushes or punishments and etc. And his conjecture happens so quickly after something unfolds. It just makes me wonder if he actually has working knowledge of why something happened — someone told him — or if he is just making up a lot of stuff and he knows what his audience wants. I am also not a fan of him being a critic of the product while also being a journalist who covers events. Whether or not that leads to bias, there is an argument to be made that the more willing someone is as a source might lead to more favorable star ratings or Vice-versa and that can affect someone’s livelihood and bookings and etc. I don’t want to make it seem that I don’t like Dave. He’s written a wrestling trade publication longer than anyone and knows more about the industry than anyone. He does a great job with histories and the like. And he has certainly broken a lot of actual industry news. But there are a lot of things he does that don’t fly, and commenting on things outside of what he really knows is not a good look. On Observer radio at least, he's had people on the past whenever he or Bryan/Garrett had to discuss something outside their expertise. I mean when covid was going on, they had Dr. whathisface on like 150 times within six or seven months. We couldn't get rid of that fucker. I think that's something they need to get better at and doing more of. Now as far as there being a conflict of interest with him being a journalist and potential tastemaker, wrestling has always been outside that bubble of where no one believe that the dirtsheets would have that much influence. However, the whole reason why Dave probably should get a pass on if anyone does is very few guys were checking for the Eddie Guerreros or Dean Malenkos of the world (even though Eddie was a star in Mexico prior to ECW and already had a brief cup of coffee doing dark matches with WCW years before) before Dave and some others start writing about them. There were people backstage fighting for them (for example, Cornette and Ross going to bat for Cactus Jack) but it didn't change until people started to get a new perspective on guys who weren't guys we were accustomed to being stars. In hindsight, it didn't take a fucking genius to realize that a bunch of those guys deserved to be higher on the card than they were. Now that it happened where wrestling has changed and you also have podcasts where people are giving flowers to bunch of wrestlers that probably deserved them when they wrestling instead of several years later, it looks pretty shaky to see Dave give out random high star ratings to Johnny Flippykickpads and some Japanese lady you probably never heard of working at a 1/3 full Sumo Hall. It doesn't jive with some of the respect you probably have with some of the wrestlers you probably grew up with. However, Dave isn't going to influence the business more than he did 25 or 30 years ago. It's not possible. Hell, I think part of the reason why he still does it is for several years people thought the idea of star ratings was fucking goofy to begin with. If he can get some fucking guys 25 dollars more working the rec center in Parma, OH, god bless him cause that's all he can do. Guys like Omega and the Bucks were going to get paid regardless of whatever the fuck Dave says. Wrestling was trendy before Dave Meltzer and will be after he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 9 hours ago, Greggulator said: There is a huge difference between funding your son’s e-fed come to life and hoping it goes somewhere and buying a $6.5 billion media property that is profitable and has valuable intellectual property that can be used in so many ways. The WWE is financially a really good company and a good bet as an investment. Not necessarily on this Board but I'm surprised how many people actually think this is a Possibility outside of just jokingly coming up with scenarios and memes. Although alot of the shifts in WWE Businesswise if you'd would told me it would have happened 2 years ago I'd be calling you a liar. The geeky business aspect of wrestling is going to be very interesting for me to follow the next 6 months or so. I wonder if this was an ingenious move by Vince to get the focus off his scandals by hoping back in the boardroom first because we all know he wants to eventually get back running the show but if he went back to Guerrilla first, I dont think people would get past all the accusations that's already out not to mention what is assumed to be coming forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Dynamite Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Now that it happened where wrestling has changed and you also have podcasts where people are giving flowers to bunch of wrestlers that probably deserved them when they wrestling instead of several years later, it looks pretty shaky to see Dave give out random high star ratings to Johnny Flippykickpads and some Japanese lady you probably never heard of working at a 1/3 full Sumo Hall. It doesn't jive with some of the respect you probably have with some of the wrestlers you probably grew up with. You know the people who are going to be reading this post. We have all heard of some Japanese lady and we love her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt925 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, LF2 said: I don’t see why Meltzer was reporting it anyhow. Amazon lost their shirt on the Thursday Night Football deal this year too. So clearly sports as a whole (including sports entertainment) aren’t money makers when you add in the rights fees being paid. I’ve been really curious about how much they were getting for those handfuls of commercials during the broadcasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted January 14, 2023 Author Share Posted January 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I mean when covid was going on, they had Dr. whathisface on like 150 times within six or seven months. I'm sure this wasn't what actually took place, but now I've got the mental image of Bret Weinstein on Observer Radio all the time pitching Ivermectin to Dave. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Here is an analyst whose job it is to pay attention to the WWE and media companies at large with his take on the whole affair and where things may be headed. This guy immediately went on Twitter and shot down the Saudi story as it was circulating. He is somebody who would likely know and hear about things. https://lightshedtmt.com/2023/01/12/__trashed-2/ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 minute ago, John from Cincinnati said: I'm sure this wasn't what actually took place, but now I've got the mental image of Bret Weinstein on Observer Radio all the time pitching Ivermectin to Dave. Thanks. ...would Dave know better? (It was Dave's homie Dr. Alex Patel who I believe Dave and Garrett both have known for awhile.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman 3000 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Matt D said: When are you going to leverage your specialized knowledge into writing something for a legitimate publication about this crazy story? yeah Greg should start a Substack - get paid, mang Edited January 14, 2023 by Dolphman 3000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, joseph2112 said: What I've always heard/read was the "loss leader" stuff was creative bookkeeping and long term negotiation games corporations play. Really if you think about it logically, they've lost money every single year but will definitely be shelling out that big cash when the time comes. Here's an article about it too. https://medium.com/what-you-pay-for-sports/the-nfl-is-not-a-loss-leader-for-broadcasters-c69c0127a54d That's exactly what happens in Hollywood. Would you believe that the original star wars has never made a profit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, The Great ML said: Perhaps to show the vignette of when Adnan Al Kaissie bought the AWA contracts of Jerry Blackwell and Ken Patera from Bobby Heenan. “I want a hay-rem and awl wells,” said the turban clad Crusher from Stone Mountain. See also Akbar and Ted Debussy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 20 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said: I'm sure this wasn't what actually took place, but now I've got the mental image of Bret Weinstein on Observer Radio all the time pitching Ivermectin to Dave. Thanks. For DC folks, I thought that said Bram Weinstein at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, odessasteps said: See also Akbar and Ted Debussy. Ted was in a tag team with Effy and Allie Katch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, AxB said: Ted was in a tag team with Effy and Allie Katch? Terrible Ted the wrestling bear? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimLivingston Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Meltzer got on LeBatard the other day which is hilarious given Dan has Ariel on for a lot of big MMA stuff, but Ariel is much better at his job than Dave is. It’s the wrong perspective to tell the story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 I have zero interest in listening to Conrad Thompson talk with Eric Bischoff so have no idea of the context. But apparently Conrad said he does not see the upside of Tony K buying the WWE. In a world of awful takes, that might just be the absolute worst. Geez, I can’t even begin to picture the upside of having a start-up wrestling company with a niche audience and ending up owning one of the most recognizable brands and the nine figures worth of profit it generates and its decades worth of intellectual property and being able to leverage my dad’ the NFL owner’s vast connections throughout the media landscape. Absolutely no upside at all. https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1162397/conrad-thompson-on-if-tony-khan-would-buy-wwe/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 17 minutes ago, Greggulator said: I have zero interest in listening to Conrad Thompson talk with Eric Bischoff so have no idea of the context. But apparently Conrad said he does not see the upside of Tony K buying the WWE. In a world of awful takes, that might just be the absolute worst. Geez, I can’t even begin to picture the upside of having a start-up wrestling company with a niche audience and ending up owning one of the most recognizable brands and the nine figures worth of profit it generates and its decades worth of intellectual property and being able to leverage my dad’ the NFL owner’s vast connections throughout the media landscape. Absolutely no upside at all. https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1162397/conrad-thompson-on-if-tony-khan-would-buy-wwe/ I probably should listen to it myself, but I think the context may be that Tony probably wouldn't have enough time to devote to AEW as well as WWE. I would think if Shad and Tony bought WWE, Tony would be the head of creative, no? You cannot be working for the Jags, Fulham, AND booking by far the biggest name in pro wrestling along with the company YOU started. Crockett came apart at the seams when? Jim became friends with the boys, moved to Dallas, and was trying to deal with doing shows in what was left of Florida, Georgia, the Mid South territory, and his own territory. That's too much for one guy. Now if he wants to leave Paul in charge, delegate some of the day-to-day responsibilities to others, and just drop in to kinda supervise, wouldn't be an issue at all. Knowing Conrad, that's probably his context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) Tony Khan would be the only good billionaire in history if he used his fortune to produce endless fan-service pro-wrestling shows and hosting every unedited historical show available. Edited January 14, 2023 by Go2Sleep 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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