Vince McMahon Returns to WWE

[Peck]

"Somebody tell me what the hell is going on right now." - Booker T on NXT tonight.

HE KNEW.

[Niners Fan in CT]

what would a Saudi deal mean for the on-TV product? 

Goldberg type legacy acts on an endless loop and 2-minute "diva" matches.   So pretty much 2003 RAW..   

[Guest]

Another option is merging with that Saudi Compamy. Or that joint co-operation thingy that they brought up. Makes me think new operating company for WWE. American and Saudi owned.

[Cobra Commander]

4 minutes ago, Dural said:

Another option is merging with that Saudi Compamy. Or that joint co-operation thingy that they brought up. Makes me think new operating company for WWE. American and Saudi owned.

I mean "shell company with lots of money from people in the background" is probably one way for this to play out

Edit: it's possible my term was not the most accurate one, but it'll be something like being sold to "Sports Entertainment Partners", which is a company that only exists with PIF money or something.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[Octopus]

So you’re telling me CyberFight still has a chance?

[Greggulator]

2 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

A lot of the PIF investment projects mentioned in Wikipedia mention stakes as opposed to 100% ownership.

The rules might be a bit different for things going from public to private. I'm sorta skeptical that the PIF would go 100% in on the WWE when their game mainly involves buying lots of points in Live Nation, Boeing, Citigroup, Facebook, Disney, Bank of America, BP, Uber, EA, Activision, Nintendo, Twitter, and so on.

Anyways, I wonder if the Saudi Aramco Residential Camp in Dhahran has any good arenas for house shows.

Every pension fund also buys and sells a lot of shares in companies it seems a valuable investment. The Saudi wealth fund is no different than any other large investor (institutional investor) buying companies it thinks are good investments. It owns $40 billion in US stocks, which sounds like an insane amount t of money, but when the value of all of the 500 companies that make up the S and P 500 is $32 trillion. 

[Cobra Commander]

Any future WWE problems with TV deals is probably gonna be more due to the WWE than the PIF.

2 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

Every pension fund also buys and sells a lot of shares in companies it seems a valuable investment

just remembered the whole saga about NRA investments and local government pension funds investing in stuff like that... oh yeah, also FTX stuff.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

So here's a thought. This is far from confirmed. Let's say this is all rumor BS and actually not true. When the market opens tomorrow does this rumor mongering overnight help or hurt the stock price? Like do more people buy in thinking a sale is immediately imminent? Does it actually pop their number? Or do people see Saudi and sell in droves? I'm not really a financial guy so I'm not sure which way it can play out.

But there is so much chum in the water, I can't believe WWE would let this simmer over night if not true. I guess we'll see.

[Dolphman 3000]

13 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

what would a Saudi deal mean for the on-TV product? 

Goldberg type legacy acts on an endless loop and 2-minute "diva" matches.   So pretty much 2003 RAW..   

If it's anything like LIV, flying around on luxury jets for big paydays

I'm thinking a greatly reduced roster of only big names

[The Natural]

1 minute ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

So here's a thought. This is far from confirmed. Let's say this is all rumor BS and actually not true. When the market opens tomorrow does this rumor mongering overnight help or hurt the stock price? Like do more people buy in thinking a sale is immediately imminent? Does it actually pop their number? Or do people see Saudi and sell in droves? I'm not really a financial guy so I'm not sure which way it can play out.

But there is so much chum in the water, I can't believe WWE would let this simmer over night if not true. I guess we'll see.

Many years ago, I did business and economics. I'd say it hurts the stock price although there's Saudi sportswashing going on in different sports (Football, F1, Boxing) so it may not. Our very own @Greggulator is the best person to ask.

[hammerva]

2 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

I feel like that pic of Sami, Paul Heyman, and Roman watching and eating popcorn is going to be very meta this week. 

Oh I am sure that Sami is FUCKING THRILLED by the news if true 

[The Natural]

Just now, hammerva said:

Oh I am sure that Sami is FUCKING THRILLED by the news if true 

Sami Zayn was the first name I thought of when the news came through, same time as @NoFistsJustFlips.

[Cobra Commander]

misc notes on the Saudis and the whole concept of the sell

1) Saudis are actually pretty nice (with some major exceptions)

2) this isn't technically the worst possible government that could buy the WWE (although I guess it would be quite difficult for the Iranian government to buy out Vince McMahon at this moment)

3) maybe Vince just wants several billion so he can pay off that $200K fine to the SEC or however much the government fines rich people these days.

[TheVileOne]

If I'm a wrestler exploring free agency, I would at least wait about six months before I sign a long-term WWE contract. Especially Jay White.

[Kang]

13 minutes ago, Octopus said:

So you’re telling me CyberFight still has a chance?

If so, CyberAgent would be the buyer. CyberFight is the unified umbrella and subsidiary for their Puroresu brands.

Honestly Kidani is the one that would want to buy WWE, he was a WWE fan. So it would be with Bushiroad then. 

 

[Greggulator]

2 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Any future WWE problems with TV deals is probably gonna be more due to the WWE than the PIF.

just remembered the whole saga about NRA investments and local government pension funds investing in stuff like that... oh yeah, also FTX stuff.

So here is how that works: 

Pension systems invest in public stock markets just like we do, obviously they have a lot of money. Some of them will pick and choose some stocks on their own. Or they will buy into big index funds where you buy a few hundred or thousand companies at once. Or they give an investment firm a bunch of. Indy and say “do your best.” Or all three. There is a really good chance that an overwhelming amount of pension systems own either directly or most likely indirectly own shares of the WWE.

Then pension systems can also invest in privately held companies through a private equity or a venture capital fund. (Or some other things but they get a bit more complicated.) Basicslly, a pension system will tell the manager of s private equity fund “Here is $50 million.” The manager will go out to a lot of other pension systems or college endowments or really rich people until they hit how much they want to fundraiser - like $10 billion or something. Then the private equity fund will go out and buy some privately held companies or a share of a privately held company or it can buy a publicly held company and take it private. They then after about 10 years try and sell the companies to somebody else or to take them public and hopefully profit. The FTX thing came because of that - pension funds giving money to private equity or venture capital funds who bought stakes in FTX. 

I initially thought (and there is a chance this could still happen) that a private equity fund could buy the WWE. A bunch are investing in pro sports and media assets right now and a bunch of NBA owners come from that world. A really big private equity fund owned a big chunk of F1 for a while before selling it to a huge media company this year. I still think this could be the case.

[Greggulator]

11 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Many years ago, I did business and economics. I'd say it hurts the stock price although there's Saudi sportswashing going on in different sports (Football, F1, Boxing) so it may not. Our very own @Greggulator is the best person to ask.

All of the rumor mongering about this right now is coming from the Twitter account of wrestling journalists and I can guarantee you the people who invest enough to move the price of a stock do not even know that is a thing.

Also, you can buy shares of a company after the market closes and those prices are tracked. And the price of the WWE’s stock is essentially the same exact price as it finished at this morning.

I will say this: I am absolutely awful at predicting what a stock price is going to do, especially based on a news event. Like really bad at it. So I am just trying to go based on what I have seen and read and from my line of work or knowledge base.

My hunch is that when Vince forced his way back, the investors who buy and sell enough stock to move the price of a stock immediately thought that the long rumored deal is in the works. And maybe some of these investors who are really plugged in had a strong suspicion of who the deal would be with and maybe even some people who are really really really plugged in heard a really solid rumor. (EX: An investor at a really big hedge fund used to work at JPMorgan and a former co-worker of his dropped word that the bank got hired to oversee the merger and oh by the way it’s also looking like Comcast or Fox or the Saudis are the ones who want to buy.) 

Another thing with the stock price is money chases money. Some people saw the news and saw the stock pop right after. That made them think that people knew something was going on so they jumped in on it. 

Also: Investors are not going to care who ends up buying the company. They bought the stock solely to have someone buy it back from them (or they go and sell it to someone else before then.) They just want the profit. They do not care about the ethics of the Saudis if that is who ends up buying the company.1

The one thing that can happen. - and this makes me think the Saudi news is fake - is that investors will want a deal to go smoothly. Announced possible mergers fall through many times for all kind of reasons. And having the sovereign wealth fund of a sketch country buy a well-known media company like the WWE might have some complications from a public outcry or regulators or who knows.

[Dolphman 3000]

There's two types of investors in the stock market - institutional, and compulsive gamblers

Inflation has historically beat the stock market, but no one is ever going to tell you that

[hammerva]

thinking about wrestlers impacted besides about 80% of the ones rehired, what does this do for Mustafa Ali?  I cant remember if he has ever done a Saudi show.  

[Zakk_Sabbath]

The same people who ended my childhood by killing 3000 people on live television now own most of it. Very cool.

[Elsalvajeloco]

9 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

The same people who ended my childhood by killing 3000 people on live television now own most of it. Very cool.

Man, that was a dark ass episode of Barney. For real.

[Casey]

3 minutes ago, hammerva said:

thinking about wrestlers impacted besides about 80% of the ones rehired, what does this do for Mustafa Ali?  I cant remember if he has ever done a Saudi show.  

Super Showdown 2019 (50 Man Battle Royale), Crown Jewel 2019 (part of Team Hogan vs Team Flair) and 2021 (lost to Mansoor).

[Eivion]

7 minutes ago, hammerva said:

thinking about wrestlers impacted besides about 80% of the ones rehired, what does this do for Mustafa Ali?  I cant remember if he has ever done a Saudi show.  

 

3 minutes ago, Casey said:

Super Showdown 2019 (50 Man Battle Royale), Crown Jewel 2019 (part of Team Hogan vs Team Flair) and 2021 (lost to Mansoor).

He works the shows, but gives the money to charities. 

[Craig H]

BTW, the cynical side of me says that enough years have gone by since MBS had Jamal Khashoggi turned into a jigsaw puzzle that no one but us will give a shit that Vince sold the company to the Saudis. I understand with something like LIV being a flop that you could argue against that, but as casual golf fan, LIV seemed poorly organized and run. You can't say the same about WWE. They won't have any more trouble than they would have had securing a new TV rights deal. I wish I could say otherwise, but unless the Saudi government butchers someone else in the next week, this won't matter.

Hell, look at people on this board who joked about calling those Saudi shows Blood Money and still fucking watch WWE anyway. It's all a joke and meaningless words on a screen.

I think the biggest concern comes from the very real prospect that this is a way for Vince to solidify his power and ensure that no one can boot him from creative or running WWE until he's dead. He got the deal Dixie was looking for where she wouldn't sell to so and so because they wouldn't keep her in charge. I feel bad for the workers, fans, writers, and people on the production crew who got to enjoy what felt like months of stability for the first time in years. I don't feel bad for anyone else who went back to WWE thinking Vince would stay gone. I just don't see how people could be that naive to think he wouldn't worm his way back at some point.

The other sad part to this is something plenty of us have talked about for a long while and that's how you could very well have a 3rd national touring company based on the amount of talent not locked down to WWE or AEW and they'd be a decent enough draw, but the perfect storm that willed AEW into existence probably won't happen again for a long, long, long time. You see people, not on here but elsewhere, talk about how Hunter with $100 million could start his own company. You need that $100 million just to get it off the ground. You'd need another 1/2 a billion to prove to a network that you're viable and aren't going anywhere, not to mention you'd need that in backup money to keep the lights on until you can run a profit. But the one thing that the recent shows in Seattle and Portland reminded me of is that those areas are as hot as a wrestling town as Chicago. Whenever WWE wouild run out there those crowds would be lit. You could have WWE based out of Stamford, while AEW's run out of Jacksonville you could argue that their home base is in Chicago, and a third company could claim the Pacific Northwest as their home. Three different companies, each offering their own unique take on wrestling, touring around the company, broadcasting on separate nights. It would be fucking rad. I just don't see that ever happening, especially now.

[The Great ML]

44 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

If I'm a wrestler exploring free agency, I would at least wait about six months before I sign a long-term WWE contract. Especially Jay White until Vince’s wake.

FTFY.