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Vince McMahon Returns to WWE


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On 1/5/2023 at 6:38 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

For as much shit as TK gets, I don't think he would do what Watts did in WCW when WWF had a shit ton of turnover where he essentially traded Hall, Nash, and Matt Borne for like roid gut Hercules Hernandez, Tony Atlas, and well past his prime JYD. Even on the chance there is something like that, AEW isn't hiring all those people. They didn't do the last few rounds of cuts.

I doubt he hires tons of people. And that would make the contracts even more scarce. There’s like 10-15 folks on the current wwe roster I think would fit what AEW is trying to do that make enough money while not being Vince’s cup of tea (or tyrannosaur blood, whatever he drinks in the morning to relax);

-Ricochet

-Mustafa Ali

-Bayley

-Nikki Cross

-Cedric Alexander

-Shelton

-Mia Yim

-Angel Garza

-Humberto Carrillo

-Dragon Lee

You add Mercedes & Mandy Sacs to that and let the big stiffs make the move to new ownership…

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, The Natural said:

 

The uploader misspelled uncertainty.

As far as WWE's sale price, if UFC sold for $4 billion in like 2016, I would think WWE could get way more than that because they are still pulling millions of viewers on USA and FOX. It seems the big money is in live programming and WWE still has one of the best sources for that.

Edited by TheVileOne
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3 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

The uploader misspelled uncertainty.

As far as WWE's sale price, if UFC sold for $4 billion in like 2016, I would think WWE could get way more than because they are still pulling millions of viewers on USA and FOX. It seems the big money is in live programming and WWE still has one of the best sources for that.

As of yesterday, the WWE is valued at $6.27 billion. Its share price is $84.27, so you multiply that by the number of shares the company has issued and that gets you to around $6.27B. Whoever wants to buy WWE will have to pay up more than that and the one person who makes the decision is Vince. I don't think $8 billion is out of the question. That's probably the top of the possible range but who knows.

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3 hours ago, ChesterCopperpot said:

 

This is a good write-up of expected possible bidders. There are others.

So what happens is when a company wants to be bought out (or if a company wants to buy a possible target), it will select a major investment bank to handle the technical aspects and the serious parts of the negotiations. The investment bank (JP Morgan) gets a commission on however much the company ends up selling for. Think of it as like buying a house - almost always, this is done by using a real estate agent who makes a commission on the sale price. 

Vince may already have a buyer in mind. Somebody could have approached him. Or Vince could have already been working something out with Morgan Stanley before he was ousted. Either way, this looks like the process is moving along really fast. 

From those on the list, I think Comcast is the most likely. Comcast has more experience with WWE than anyone else because of USA Network and now Peacock. It also has an insane amount of cash on hand and it could make the purchase without needing to take on debt to make it happen. I was thinking Saudis yesterday but the only issue with that -- the Saudis would still have to negotiate rights deals with US TV networks and no one wants to deal with them for obvious reasons. LIV has some really big name golfers and they can't even get on something like Fox Sports 1. 

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13 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Yeah but a lot of people thought all the "budget cuts" over the last two years were Vince McMahon leaning out the business and prepping for a sale. Now he's actually talking about a sale. 

So even if he were to not book again, and they sell the company, whose job is really safe at this point in the event of a sale?

This is absolutely true. But this is true whenever any company in any industry gets sold. Elon Musk just fired like all of Twitter for no real rational reason. A rational business that buys the WWE (say Comcast) will take a look at where it thinks the company does well, where it thinks it can do better, and where new opportunities may arise. (Like theme parks, as the CNBC article says.) It will also consider the people who already work for the company in terms of who they think does a good job, who they think does a terrible job, and they have a list of people in mind or will ask around on who can do a better job. 

In terms of the talent -- yes, there's a good chance there are going to be cuts. Talent is a giant cost for the WWE. Vince wants to make the company look as good as possible financially. That means trimming the perceived fat. A new company is going to want to make sure the expenses of its new acquisition are in line. That means trimming the perceived fat. 

So, if you are a WWE talent and the management thinks the value you bring to the company isn't worth what they are paying you for, or they think they can replace what you bring with someone who will take less money to do so or has more potential to grow... then you're gone. That's just the facts of life that everyone has to face. 

Value doesn't just mean "do I drive ratings or merchandise sales?" It can also mean "I am really good at helping other people out" or "I'm really great for the public relations of the company" or "We have a few hours of TV programming to make a week and I'm for anything to fill that time." 

But, seriously, if someone like Lacey Evans or a person who has been in NXT for 2 years gets released or more people than that - it sucks for them, but that's just fucking life. The entertainment industry is really difficult and merciless. There are a ton of people who are a huge movie star one year and then can't get a role 12 months later. There are also plenty of character actors who always get roles and are perpetually "Oh, that guy!" types. 

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I think the Saudi angle is a Vince stalking horse. It obviously makes no sense as a business decision for either party, but Vince has been close enough with the Kingdom that there’s a perception that he might be crazy enough to do it, which potentially benefits whatever angle Vince is really after.

Edited by EVA
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36 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

This is a good write-up of expected possible bidders. There are others.

So what happens is when a company wants to be bought out (or if a company wants to buy a possible target), it will select a major investment bank to handle the technical aspects and the serious parts of the negotiations. The investment bank (JP Morgan) gets a commission on however much the company ends up selling for. Think of it as like buying a house - almost always, this is done by using a real estate agent who makes a commission on the sale price. 

Vince may already have a buyer in mind. Somebody could have approached him. Or Vince could have already been working something out with Morgan Stanley before he was ousted. Either way, this looks like the process is moving along really fast. 

From those on the list, I think Comcast is the most likely. Comcast has more experience with WWE than anyone else because of USA Network and now Peacock. It also has an insane amount of cash on hand and it could make the purchase without needing to take on debt to make it happen. I was thinking Saudis yesterday but the only issue with that -- the Saudis would still have to negotiate rights deals with US TV networks and no one wants to deal with them for obvious reasons. LIV has some really big name golfers and they can't even get on something like Fox Sports 1. 

Comcast also has an arena management company and a food and beverage service company for arenas and stadiums. 

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5 minutes ago, EVA said:

I think the Saudi angle is a Vince stalking horse. It obviously makes no sense as a business decision for either party, but Vince has been close enough with the Kingdom that there’s a perception that he might be crazy enough to do it, which potentially benefits whatever angle Vince is really after.

You want as many bidders as possible in a bidding war. Or as many rumored bidders.

But it is something the Saudis would probably want. They don't want to be perceived as they are around the world. They bought the Newcastle soccer team in England, which is almost overnight at the top of the league. The people of northern England might not care as much anymore the next time they hack apart a journalist.

They financed the LIV golf tour. That gives them access to the members of the most prestigious golf courses around the world (and their wealthy and powerful members.) One of their tournaments was at Trump's club in New Jersey, where he hobnobbed with the guy who runs the Saudi investment fund. (Jared Kushner's own investment fund has a relationship with them.)

Those dots are easy to connect: Trump was literally at a WrestleMania. Linda McMahon ran a government agency under Trump. There are ties there to be made and that could be helpful if Trump (god fucking forbid) somehow becomes president again. At the same time - the Saudis owning a company whose product traditionally caters to red blooded 'Muricans is good PR and could possibly help them deflect some blame the next time they kill a journalist. 

Then there are other factors. Saudi Arabia is in a dick measuring contest with Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. Dubai has become a global capital. Qatar just bribed its way into hosting the World Cup. That's a level of prestige the Saudi's don't have. And while the WWE isn't anywhere as prestigious as those, it is still a well-known American institution its leaders get to show off as their shiny new toy. 

Also, apparently the WWE is really popular in Saudi Arabia and has been for some time. Something like 60% of Saudi's population is under 35-years of age. Western culture is everywhere and the world watches the shit we make. Young people don't want to live under repressive monarchies (as it turns out), especially in a country where having opportunities is very much based on who you are related to. Want to soothe the nerves of a possible revolt like what is happening in Iran right now? Give the kids some concessions and show you're with them by buying the right to put on WrestleMania.

The LIV golf tour is pretty much a disaster. But a lot of that is because it's a crappy and unestablished product. Even with some of the best and well-known golfers in the world, it can't get on TV. But they have this complicated team set-up, and as of now players can't use the LIV tour to get to the Masters or the other majors that non-golf fans pay attention to. It just sucks.

The WWE is at least an established product. I don't think that any TV network or streaming service or the owner of an 80,000 seat football stadium is going to want to deal with them and the fallout. But money talks and the WWE makes people money, so who knows. 

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The only media companies that really have the infrastructure to successfully operate WWE post-sale would be Comcast and Disney.

I laughed out loud at the CNBC article listing Netflix as a suitor. They view themselves first and foremost as a tech company. They’re not getting into the traveling circus business.

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So does this sale, when it happens, of WWE to a giant corporate conglomerate mark the end of what will be seen as the golden age (1980s-present)?  Or does AEW still count as the tail end of that era?

There has never been a point in my life, or I guess anyone's, when Pro Wrestling was dominated not by a few individuals, but by a few mainstream media companies with little to no connection to the history of the business.

Is this it?

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1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

There's no way Warner Bros. Discovery can afford a WWE acquisition now. Warner Bros. Discovery can barely afford to release a major tentpole film. 

Warner Bros. Discovery seems to be cancelling sequels like Superman where fans expect big name stars to return for big money, while promising to continue the franchises with new casts.

Kind of a "you're paying to see the sports team, not the individual players" deal.

If Warner did buy WWE, first thing to go would be veterans with big money contracts.

Edited by Dolphman 3000
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The problem with getting the LIV tour on tv is the PGA Tour will presumably freeze out any network or streamer doing business with them.  If you’re doing business with the PGA tour now, or you hope to in the future, the Saudis are probably radioactive.  WWE doesn’t have that problem, but selling to the Saudis has a lot of potential pitfalls and unknowns.  You’re probably going to alienate at least one or two prospective tv partners if you sell to the Saudis and risk a lot of bad pr.

On the other hand, the company ultimately gets sold to whoever Vince feels like selling to.  As the past 48 hours have proved, Vince is less constrained by the checks and balances  (that come along with taking a company public) than you’d expect.  Keeping the “voting” stock in the family was a shrewd idea, but it also has some disadvantages.  I can think of a couple reasons Saudi money might appeal to Vince more than, say, Comcast or Fox, so maybe Vince will go that way despite the downsides.

I worked on Wall Street for a while, long time ago (dinosaurs still walked the planet, iirc).  My professional opinion is that anyone who says they know where this is going is shitting you, to use the industry terminology.   I doubt anyone but Vince’s inner circle knows his endgame.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Vince doesn’t know.  He may just want to negotiate a sale and tv rights today, but is going to wake up Thursday and decide he wants to keep full control, sale is off.  Vince has never been predictable and seems willing to adjust strategy at a moment’s notice.  

If he is selling, I think he’s already got the buyer in mind.  The company has been up for sale (for the right offer) for six or seven years.  I don’t think Vince would go so public about a sale unless he was sure a buyer was there.  I’m more curious about why he’s hellbent on selling, if he really is.  Suddenly aware he’s an old man and can’t run the company much longer regardless?  Ego won’t let him believe Steph can run the company?  He finally watched an Uncle Howdy segment and is determined to save us from more of that?  I have no idea.

I find WWE’s corporate stricture intriguing,  it’s a shame there will never be an unbiased “year in the life” business book about WWE’s corporate workings written by an actual journalist,  I can’t imagine Vince giving anyone that sort of access without having the option to approve the material and control the narrative.  WWE’s fairly unique in how it operates.  Basically, it’s a mammoth corporation that never quite lost it’s Mom and Pop roots.  So fascinating.  

I kinda wish Tony Khan was more off the rails.  He has his moments.  I’m meh about wrestling as an entertainment option, but I”ll probably keep coming back as long as Vince is alive and doing crazy shit no other CEO would or could get away with.

 

Edited by Doc Townsend
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2 hours ago, Mister TV said:

Comcast also has an arena management company and a food and beverage service company for arenas and stadiums. 

I had to look up when Ed Snider sold part of Spectacor and it was 1996. They bought the rest after snider died. 

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1 hour ago, Doc Townsend said:

The problem with getting the LIV tour on tv is the PGA Tour will presumably freeze out any network or streamer doing business with them.  If you’re doing business with the PGA tour now, or you hope to in the future, the Saudis are probably radioactive.  WWE doesn’t have that problem, but selling to the Saudis has a lot of potential pitfalls and unknowns.  You’re probably going to alienate at least one or two prospective tv partners if you sell to the Saudis and risk a lot of bad pr.

On the other hand, the company ultimately gets sold to whoever Vince feels like selling to.  As the past 48 hours have proved, Vince is less constrained by the checks and balances  (that come along with taking a company public) than you’d expect.  Keeping the “voting” stock in the family was a shrewd idea, but it also has some disadvantages.  I can think of a couple reasons Saudi money might appeal to Vince more than, say, Comcast or Fox, so maybe Vince will go that way despite the downsides.

I worked on Wall Street for a while, long time ago (dinosaurs still walked the planet, iirc).  My professional opinion is that anyone who says they know where this is going is shitting you, to use the industry terminology.   I doubt anyone but Vince’s inner circle knows his endgame.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Vince doesn’t know.  He may just want to negotiate a sale and tv rights today, but is going to wake up Thursday and decide he wants to keep full control, sale is off.  Vince has never been predictable and seems willing to adjust strategy at a moment’s notice.  

If he is selling, I think he’s already got the buyer in mind.  The company has been up for sale (for the right offer) for six or seven years.  I don’t think Vince would go so public about a sale unless he was sure a buyer was there.  I’m more curious about why he’s hellbent on selling, if he really is.  Suddenly aware he’s an old man and can’t run the company much longer regardless?  Ego won’t let him believe Steph can run the company?  He finally watched an Uncle Howdy segment and is determined to save us from more of that?  I have no idea.

I find WWE’s corporate stricture intriguing,  it’s a shame there will never be an unbiased “year in the life” business book about WWE’s corporate workings written by an actual journalist,  I can’t imagine Vince giving anyone that sort of access without having the option to approve the material and control the narrative.  WWE’s fairly unique in how it operates.  Basically, it’s a mammoth corporation that never quite lost it’s Mom and Pop roots.  So fascinating.  

I kinda wish Tony Khan was more off the rails.  He has his moments.  I’m meh about wrestling as an entertainment option, but I”ll probably keep coming back as long as Vince is alive and doing crazy shit no other CEO would or could get away with.

 

I was in college in 1999 and was a liberal arts major so I had no idea what an IPO was. But is absolutely wild that people thought this structure was in any way a good idea for the proper governance of a corporation.

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I find the suggestion of Amazon buying WWE fascinating, mostly because Bezos is also trying to buy the Washington Commanders (and most suggest that he is the front runner simply because of how much money he has) and the fact that Dan Snyder is a bigger sleazebag than Vince.

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I'd be interested to see which offers come in where the McMahon family come along for the ride in some capacity (onscreen figurehead, creative, some form of office role) and which explicitly want a clean split.

Greg makes a good point about how Wall Street don't care about the creative issues that come with Vince coming back and the price rise reflecting that. Do these institutions see Vince's IP and expertise as an asset, or too much of a liability given the accusations at play/SEC investigation? Does that even factor into Vince's preference for how a deal is reached?

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8 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

The uploader misspelled uncertainty.

As far as WWE's sale price, if UFC sold for $4 billion in like 2016, I would think WWE could get way more than that because they are still pulling millions of viewers on USA and FOX. It seems the big money is in live programming and WWE still has one of the best sources for that.

Shit, that's where they were wrong six or seven years ago. Plus, it's not like WWE wasn't making money back then. In order to get the money they truly want, it's going to be someone with a ton of money who doesn't have something as precious as WWE in their portfolio, at least in terms of based on what it requires day-to-day. I think it's too much of an undertaking for a WBD or Disney at this point to where they try to lowball them. 

I know you remember before the sale the UFC floating out there the idea that Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta were trying to buy the Raiders from ole bowl cut Mark Davis before they moved to Las Vegas or planning to move there. If anything, that turned out to be a red herring.

1. It probably should have been clear that Lorenzo and Frank didn't have enough money themselves to buy a major sports franchise.

2. If their cousin Tilman (Houston Rockets owner) and how they ran Station Casinos is any indication, I doubt they would be welcomed with opened arms as owners. Moreover, anyone who followed the UFC when they owned it, they are/were STAUNCHLY anti-union. Keep in mind, their practices are the main reason why the UFC is still in that (never-ending) anti-trust lawsuit. Between that and the weird Galveston mafia connection, I doubt people would be running to join an ownership group with them.

3. There was NO indication that Pee Wee's Playhouse character looking motherfucker would sell the Raiders to them in the first place. There was a "meeting" and that was it. As far as I can tell, it only had to do with the building of the stadium that we now know as Allegiant Stadium.

They (Dana, Lorenzo, Frank) used that along with throwing out crazy numbers they might get for what became the ESPN TV rights deal as leverage to artificially drive that price up. 

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31 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I'd be interested to see which offers come in where the McMahon family come along for the ride in some capacity (onscreen figurehead, creative, some form of office role) and which explicitly want a clean split.

If Amazon doesn't keep the McMahons on as consultants, do they put a "you agree not to start a competing wrestling product for X years" clause in the contract? Interesting how the proposed legal changes to noncompete laws in the US would affect that

We joked about Vince starting McMahon Genome Federation, but I'd think Hunter would have a even stronger drive to keep going in the business if he was left on the outside looking in. If I was HHH, I'd just buy the NWA from Billy Corgan at that point - you get the title lineage and a brand you can rehab.

Edited by Dolphman 3000
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I wonder if the sale to a Media company that is not used to having a 200-night-a-year live traveling circus as part of their company (along with all the potential extra liability that entails) means the end of house shows and if that means the end of something that is necessary to keeping the whole operation going?

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14 minutes ago, piranesi said:

I wonder if the sale to a Media company that is not used to having a 200-night-a-year live traveling circus as part of their company (along with all the potential extra liability that entails) means the end of house shows and if that means the end of something that is necessary to keeping the whole operation going?

Why run arenas at all? I betcha didn't have a return to the Thunderdome on the docket, did you?

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