WCW Starrcade 1997: 25 years later. The start of the end for WCW.

[Go2Sleep]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:29 AM, Thunder Down Under said:

I hate to sound like Bischoff, but this is such a  lazy take. While it was a somewhat unsatisfactory ending in hindsight (certainly not as a 10 year old watching live), a clean decisive Sting win would’ve meant no rematch at SuperBrawl, and a Hall/Sting main event (or any other combo except maybe bringing Sting/Savage forward 2 months) would’ve done worse numbers than the rematch actually did.

I don't buy that at all. The same company ran Hogan/Piper twice in the same time frame the year before, and ran Hogan/Luger twice in one week earlier that year. They could've easily written a "Hogan uses his connections to pull some bullshit and get a quick rematch" angle. Sting vs. Hall should've gone on the lesser Souled Out ppv in between with like Bret vs. Savage while he was still in "dream match" mode (I agree that Bret vs. Flair should've happened at Starrcade).

Yeah there's a million other reasons WCW folded, but the finish of Starrcade 97 consolidates a few of the big ones into a singular extremely hate-able moment. Also, the rest of the show sucked too. Didn't even deliver quality undercard action like most WCW ppvs from the time. There was a 15-minute Luger/Bagwell match for god's sake. Just a total choke job when the company had the most people watching that they ever had.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Hey I liked that Lex Vs. Buff match! 

[Thunder Down Under]

On 1/21/2023 at 1:49 PM, Go2Sleep said:

I don't buy that at all. The same company ran Hogan/Piper twice in the same time frame the year before, and ran Hogan/Luger twice in one week earlier that year. They could've easily written a "Hogan uses his connections to pull some bullshit and get a quick rematch" angle. Sting vs. Hall should've gone on the lesser Souled Out ppv in between with like Bret vs. Savage while he was still in "dream match" mode (I agree that Bret vs. Flair should've happened at Starrcade).

Yeah there's a million other reasons WCW folded, but the finish of Starrcade 97 consolidates a few of the big ones into a singular extremely hate-able moment. Also, the rest of the show sucked too. Didn't even deliver quality undercard action like most WCW ppvs from the time. There was a 15-minute Luger/Bagwell match for god's sake. Just a total choke job when the company had the most people watching that they ever had.

Regardless of Hogan’s scheming, what is the draw for SuperBrawl if the Starrcade match is decisive in Sting’s factor? The first Hogan/Piper match was non title which led into the title match at SuperBrawl, with Savage’s interference leading to the rubber match at Havoc. It wasn’t just the modern concept of “let’s have multiple matches in a year for no particular reason”. The execution of the disputed finish was horrible no doubt, but the idea behind it is the one that makes the most business sense. Any rematch after a decisive victory for Sting logically means that he either needs to lose the rematch to set up a rubber match, or you’re sending Hogan home for a while to freshen up, which just isn’t realistic given the times and his contract.    

Your last sentence is also totally wrong, which really hurts the wider argument. Starrcade 97 was their best PPV buyrate by far, but TV ratings were better in 98 than they were in 1997 (as well as breaking their attendance record multiple times after Starrcade), so for all of the hateable moments Starrcade 97 presented, it had no real negative effect on their business, which kinda contradicts any argument that it helped killed the company. It is as accurate as saying the Flair departure in 91 killed the company. 

[Thunder Down Under]

They also did Savage/Hart 4 months later at Slamboree which was nothing to write home about (likely due to the knee issues suffered at Havoc 97). So it’s doubtful it would’ve been a better match than Flair/Hart, or what they presented at Slamboree. So saving Hart/Flair as an attraction for a show that needed it makes more sense than putting it onto an already loaded show. 

[twiztor]

3 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:

Regardless of Hogan’s scheming, what is the draw for SuperBrawl if the Starrcade match is decisive in Sting’s factor?

rematch with a stip? nWo beats Sting down every Nitro leading to a cage match, for example. it's not like WCW was against rematches to headline PPVs.

[EVA]

As bad as the BS was in that match, I actually don’t think that’s what killed Sting.

Like, today, when most people remember Mick Foley winning the WWF title, they don’t remember that he only won it because Austin ran in and basically beat The Rock for him. They just remember that it’s awesome Foley won.

The live crowd at Starrcade certainly didn’t seem bothered that Sting and Bret Hart basically screwed Hogan out of the title. They were just psyched to see Sting win, and maybe even for Hogan to have gotten some of his own  medicine. Sting could’ve been fine after that! What killed Sting was everything that came after.

[Jenalysis]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:29 AM, Thunder Down Under said:

I hate to sound like Bischoff, but this is such a  lazy take. While it was a somewhat unsatisfactory ending in hindsight (certainly not as a 10 year old watching live), a clean decisive Sting win would’ve meant no rematch at SuperBrawl, and a Hall/Sting main event (or any other combo except maybe bringing Sting/Savage forward 2 months) would’ve done worse numbers than the rematch actually did. 

Even if you accept the questionable “He’s not tanned, Brother” reason, pivoting away and not even having the match WOULD have been way worse than what they actually did. Certainly by Uncensored 97 it was clear fans wanted Sting to be the one to take down Hogan and Starrcade always made the most sense for that from that point. Luger/Giant/Bret/Flair would’ve all been a let down in that spot, and would’ve had to likely to the job to keep Hogans big title loss for when Sting was eventually ready. Dragging out their first confrontation until 1998 likely would’ve cooled it off even more and we would most likely be pointing to that delay as being the reason for the death of the company.

But back to the wider point, their PPV buyrates and TV ratings show there was very little negative effect on business as a result of the finish of Starrcade 97 (or 98 for that matter). It’s hard to think it killed business when Goldberg hadn’t even started his rise at that point. The summer and fall of 99 is when the real drop offs for ratings and buy rates happened, with the end of Russo v1.0 driving the final nail in the coffins with fans. I’d still argue everything was still salvageable up until Havoc/Starrcade 99. Fans would’ve still gotten behind Goldberg as late as Havoc 99, but he still would’ve needed a strong heel/group of heels to work with afterwards. Funnily enough, Bischoff leading a group of heels is probably the best possible story they could’ve told at that point, but clearly not a realistic option considering Russo hadn’t failed at that point.

I actually don’t mind what Russo’s initial plan seemed to be (again except I’d have had Goldberg stay champ after Havoc 99 and still do a Sid rematch at Mayhem as a title match and just switch make the tourney to a No 1 contenders match instead of vacant title tourney), which really does seem like it was cruelled by injury to Goldberg right when it was getting started. I don’t know that it would’ve necessarily turned business around to the point they were challenging Vince, but it may have kept their ratings attractive enough as a TV property to make it worthwhile for a different buyer.

 

You had plenty of choices for Sting at SuperBrawl.  Bret as the obvious one, Nash- start the Wolfpac a bit early, Raven would be interesting if you built him up.

 

[Kuetsar]

Fwiw, I would have killed crow sting at starrcade, bring back surfer sting everyone likes. Granted in the real world it never would have happened, but I think i might be the only person that hated crow sting with a passion. As for the end of wcw, that was when turner merged/sold his companies. If turner never sells, wcw is still on tv to this today.

[BloodyChamp]

I don’t know why you’re hung up what the next draw would have been. They had the 3 good enough matches already that I already said. 4 if you count Raven. When I used him as an example of another match earlier it was because the dirt sheets were saying he was going to feud with Sting for a whole second. Those matches were out there by design to headline a secondary ppv or 2 until they came up with the next big plan.

They didn’t even need to have an immediate plan. They needed to finish the plan they had that they built up for 2 years. To halfway justify them not doing that because there was no giant 2 year plan up next is just dumb. 

Also about the crap rest of Starrcade. Yeah it definitely was that but that was Hogan’s fault to. He wussed out, so then Nash wussed out, so then Raven wussed out. We were out 3 matches that were supposed to be on the biggest show in the company’s history. Dean Malenko tried to wuss out to if you remember and Eric Bischoff’s explanation there is the biggest joke...had to put his foot down he said. Yeah that really showed everybody not getting 

Spoiler

cucked

4 times. Only 3. Anyway that was all Hogan’s fault because none of those other guys will admit it, but they were all in with WCW back then. They had their suspicions yeah but they were all in until Hogan did what he did. That’s when they said fuck this in their hearts even though they didn’t say with their mouths right yet. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by BloodyChamp

[BloodyChamp]

4 hours ago, EVA said:

As bad as the BS was in that match, I actually don’t think that’s what killed Sting.

Like, today, when most people remember Mick Foley winning the WWF title, they don’t remember that he only won it because Austin ran in and basically beat The Rock for him. They just remember that it’s awesome Foley won.

The live crowd at Starrcade certainly didn’t seem bothered that Sting and Bret Hart basically screwed Hogan out of the title. They were just psyched to see Sting win, and maybe even for Hogan to have gotten some of his own  medicine. Sting could’ve been fine after that! What killed Sting was everything that came after.

Whew I don’t know what show you were watching. That finish was a heartbreak and an insult even. You could say it killed Sting after I guess...the night after when they did a rematch that was 1 of the worst Monday main events of all time. The crowd was dead silent the whole time. Sting never actually had Hogan beat like Mankind had The Rock beat before he was hit with the chair. That’s why that win was acceptable.

Edited January 24, 2023 by BloodyChamp

[Thunder Down Under]

6 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

I don’t know why you’re hung up what the next draw would have been. They had the 3 good enough matches already that I already said. 4 if you count Raven. When I used him as an example of another match earlier it was because the dirt sheets were saying he was going to feud with Sting for a whole second. Those matches were out there by design to headline a secondary ppv or 2 until they came up with the next big plan.

They didn’t even need to have an immediate plan. They needed to finish the plan they had that they built up for 2 years. To halfway justify them not doing that because there was no giant 2 year plan up next is just dumb. 

Also about the crap rest of Starrcade. Yeah it definitely was that but that was Hogan’s fault to. He wussed out, so then Nash wussed out, so then Raven wussed out. We were out 3 matches that were supposed to be on the biggest show in the company’s history. Dean Malenko tried to wuss out to if you remember and Eric Bischoff’s explanation there is the biggest joke...had to put his foot down he said. Yeah that really showed everybody not getting 

  Reveal hidden contents

cucked

4 times. Only 3. Anyway that was all Hogan’s fault because none of those other guys will admit it, but they were all in with WCW back then. They had their suspicions yeah but they were all in until Hogan did what he did. That’s when they said fuck this in their hearts even though they didn’t say with their mouths right yet. 

If you are going to suggest the finish of the match killed the company, then it only makes sense to see if any other option would’ve avoided that same fate. But I guess if we are using dirt sheet rumours of the time, Hogan could’ve gotten his win back over Yoko at Super Brawl 8 as part of a reformed Hart Foundation instead of running back Hogan/Sting.

And how on earth were those matches “out there by design”? Just because the dirt sheets/RSPW tried to wish it into existence it doesn’t make it “out there”. Sting/Raven had 0 on camera interaction to that point, and would make no sense in the context of the company at the time, unless the idea is to feed Raven to Sting. A rushed Hart/Sting feud wouldn’t have helped either party involved either. Sting either drops the title in his first program after winning, or Hart loses his first crack as a baby face (against another face in his new company), or you decide to do a screwy finish to protect both guys (which would be ironic if that would be your preference ironic given the topic).

The rest is just nonsensical hate for Hogan, which somehow assumes that Kevin Nash and Raven knew of the issues with the execution of the finish in advance, which is just laughable. Would the rest of the boys still have been “all in” if Nick Patrick had’ve done a proper fast count/Bret had a working mic when restarting?

[Thunder Down Under]

6 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Whew I don’t know what show you were watching. That finish was a heartbreak and an insult even. You could say it killed Sting after I guess...the night after when they did a rematch that was 1 of the worst Monday main events of all time. The crowd was dead silent the whole time. Sting never actually had Hogan beat like Mankind had The Rock beat before he was hit with the chair. That’s why that win was acceptable.

Again that argument would hold some weight if the evidence supported it, but what you said is demonstrably false. Fans still popped well for Sting for the majority of 98, like the Nitro he joined the Wolfpack, the Sting/Goldberg match in September and the TV ratings for 1998 and around 1/2 of 1999 were much stronger than 1997. That just wouldn’t have been the case if the result of Starrcade had such a negative effect on the wider fan base. It doesn’t seem like you can seperate creative that you personally did not enjoy vs the actual effect that creative had on the business.

https://www.wwe.com/videos/sting-joins-the-nwo-wolfpac-nitro-june-1-1998

All the people in the lower bowl area jumping up and down when he clotheslines don’t seem to be indicative of a character that had been killed because of a botched finish in the same building 5/6 months prior.

[Just Dave]

10 hours ago, Kuetsar said:

Fwiw, I would have killed crow sting at starrcade, bring back surfer sting everyone likes. Granted in the real world it never would have happened, but I think i might be the only person that hated crow sting with a passion. As for the end of wcw, that was when turner merged/sold his companies. If turner never sells, wcw is still on tv to this today.

I might've considered going back to longer brown hair but bright face paint Sting. That was my personal favorite. I do think Crow Sting is overrated.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

1 hour ago, Thunder Down Under said:

Again that argument would hold some weight if the evidence supported it, but what you said is demonstrably false. Fans still popped well for Sting for the majority of 98, like the Nitro he joined the Wolfpack, the Sting/Goldberg match in September and the TV ratings for 1998 and around 1/2 of 1999 were much stronger than 1997. That just wouldn’t have been the case if the result of Starrcade had such a negative effect on the wider fan base. It doesn’t seem like you can seperate creative that you personally did not enjoy vs the actual effect that creative had on the business.

https://www.wwe.com/videos/sting-joins-the-nwo-wolfpac-nitro-june-1-1998

All the people in the lower bowl area jumping up and down when he clotheslines don’t seem to be indicative of a character that had been killed because of a botched finish in the same building 5/6 months prior.

Sting was indeed massively still over, and might’ve been the most over of the nWo members. Hell remember when he challenged Goldberg? The majority of fans were on his side. The problem was the people at the top of creative probably either didn’t like the character, or they couldn’t find a way to write for it past the Hogan match. Like I said they needed to throw more characters like Raven at him. In fact Russo sort of came in with the right idea to tackle the character. But it was unfiltered Russo writing(Even in the TNA run), and you can’t fix that. 

[Pete]

13 hours ago, EVA said:

As bad as the BS was in that match, I actually don’t think that’s what killed Sting.

Like, today, when most people remember Mick Foley winning the WWF title, they don’t remember that he only won it because Austin ran in and basically beat The Rock for him. They just remember that it’s awesome Foley won.

The live crowd at Starrcade certainly didn’t seem bothered that Sting and Bret Hart basically screwed Hogan out of the title. They were just psyched to see Sting win, and maybe even for Hogan to have gotten some of his own  medicine. Sting could’ve been fine after that! What killed Sting was everything that came after.

When you say "the live crowd," are you gauging it off of TV/video or were you actually there live? Just curious because I was there with @Rev Ray.

[BloodyChamp]

4 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:

If you are going to suggest the finish of the match killed the company, then it only makes sense to see if any other option would’ve avoided that same fate.

Sting winning like planned would have avoided the same fate, especially if we’re assuming that everybody would have just got along and none of this had anything to do with anything but bare bones booking.

 

4 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:

But I guess if we are using dirt sheet rumours of the time, Hogan could’ve gotten his win back over Yoko at Super Brawl 8 as part of a reformed Hart Foundation instead of running back Hogan/Sting.

And how on earth were those matches “out there by design”? Just because the dirt sheets/RSPW tried to wish it into existence it doesn’t make it “out there”. Sting/Raven had 0 on camera interaction to that point, and would make no sense in the context of the company at the time, unless the idea is to feed Raven to Sting. A rushed Hart/Sting feud wouldn’t have helped either party involved either. Sting either drops the title in his first program after winning, or Hart loses his first crack as a baby face (against another face in his new company), or you decide to do a screwy finish to protect both guys (which would be ironic if that would be your preference ironic given the topic).

Ok forget the Raven match. That still leaves 3. Scott Hall because he won WW3, Flair because that was the plan for his return originally, and Hart which had been a dream match for people for forever. 

4 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:

The rest is just nonsensical hate for Hogan, which somehow assumes that Kevin Nash and Raven knew of the issues with the execution of the finish in advance, which is just laughable. Would the rest of the boys still have been “all in” if Nick Patrick had’ve done a proper fast count/Bret had a working mic when restarting?

Everybody knew what was going on in that building come on.

Edited January 24, 2023 by BloodyChamp

[BloodyChamp]

3 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:

Again that argument would hold some weight if the evidence supported it, but what you said is demonstrably false. Fans still popped well for Sting for the majority of 98, like the Nitro he joined the Wolfpack, the Sting/Goldberg match in September and the TV ratings for 1998 and around 1/2 of 1999 were much stronger than 1997. That just wouldn’t have been the case if the result of Starrcade had such a negative effect on the wider fan base. It doesn’t seem like you can seperate creative that you personally did not enjoy vs the actual effect that creative had on the business.

https://www.wwe.com/videos/sting-joins-the-nwo-wolfpac-nitro-june-1-1998

All the people in the lower bowl area jumping up and down when he clotheslines don’t seem to be indicative of a character that had been killed because of a botched finish in the same building 5/6 months prior.

Trying to hard. Fans popped for Hogan the night he came back as the Hulkster to but...you know 

[Doc Townsend]

 

On 12/28/2022 at 11:28 AM, twiztor said:

agreed on all accounts.

the "Sting didn't have a tan" is such a bullshit cop-out. Like, i understand that it's shorthand for 'he didn't come in the shape we expected him to and he had outside the ring issues going on at the same time', but come on. If it's that huge of a deal (and it kinda was!) then you need to be following up with him months ahead of time to make sure everything is copasetic. IF it's not, you need to either get him on the right path to still make this happen, or pivot away. 

Would anyone be making this argument if the situation had been reversed and Hogan had shown up at Starrcade pale, out of shape, and possibly on something?  I doubt it.  I like Sting too - Surfer Sting is a top 10 act for me - but Steve Borden ultimately bears a lot of responsibility here.  He’s the person who let his drug problem get out of hand and stopped caring.  Sure, in hindsight, WCW should have trusted him less and kept a closer eye on him to make sure he could up his end of the angle and match, but Borden could also have been a professional and shown in in condition and ready to work,

Bischoff actually seemed pretty rational about the episode when he talked about on his podcast.  They didn’t toss a yearlong angle out because Sting wasn’t tan, but the tan was the straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak.   On the podcast, Bischoff noted that you can get a spray tan in about 29 min and could probably get it done the day of the show.  If you don’t care enough to invest that little bit of time and effort, I dunno that your employer should do you any favors.

I’m really not sure that I believe Bischoff when he says that they only saw Sting in loose fitting street clothes and his gimmick attire and didn’t realize until the last minute that Sting had stopped working out and was out of shape.  But, even taking some of what Bischoff and Hogan have said as the unusual carny bs, I think Borden still is at fault.  The dude had over a year to get ready for the payoff to the angle and chose not to.  You can make the same arguments blaming him that people are using against WCW.

I doubt Hogan was unhappy about not having to do the job, but I also don’t believe he scrapped a yearlong angle at the spur of the moment.  I don’t entirely believe Hogan and Busch’s account of things, but Meltzer has said much the same thing over the years (drug problem, didn’t work out, shouldn’t have been out there, aura evaporated by the time he finished his entrance, etc.)

Ultimately, it’s to know who is working who and what actually happened, but I don’t think Sting is completely blameless here.  Has anyone in the locker room come forward to defend Sting?  I’ve never heard such, but I’ve never followed the story that closely.  Bischoff and Hogan weren’t the only people, so i assume other talent knew what sort of shape Borden was in that night and the months leading up to it.

Sting gets a pass because he’s popular and Hogan and Bischoff are easy to dislike.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Doc Townsend

[twiztor]

17 minutes ago, Doc Townsend said:

I don’t think Sting is completely blameless here.

i don't think so either. i didn't explicitly say it, but definitely had it in mind when i wrote this:

On 12/28/2022 at 10:28 AM, twiztor said:

the "Sting didn't have a tan" is such a bullshit cop-out. Like, i understand that it's shorthand for 'he didn't come in the shape we expected him to and he had outside the ring issues going on at the same time', but come on. If it's that huge of a deal (and it kinda was!) then you need to be following up with him months ahead of time to make sure everything is copasetic. IF it's not, you need to either get him on the right path to still make this happen, or pivot away. 

edit: haha, i didn't realize that @Doc Townsend had quoted me in the first place. To give it a proper response, do i think it's a viable argument with reversed roles, no. mainly because Bischoff would have made different excuses as to why it worked for Hogan. He had lost a lot of muscle mass by the time he was "Hollywood" Hogan due to his burgeoning (haha) movie career, but despite that being a big reason for his popularity, that never got referenced. But also, Hogan wouldn't have let himself get out of shape like that. Whether that's a point for or against my own argument, i don't know, but it certainly is a fact. 

 

17 minutes ago, Doc Townsend said:

17 minutes ago, Doc Townsend said:

I doubt Hogan was unhappy about not having to do the job, but I also don’t believe he scrapped a yearlong angle at the spur of the moment. 

this, however, is where we disagree. i've read/listened to as many accounts of the Starrcade Screwjob as i could find, and what i've heard from everyone (except Bischoff, Hogan, and Nick Patrick) that was involved amounted to "Bischoff explained the plan for the finish- the fast count, the Bret Hart interjection, the Scorpion Deathlock- and then SOMEBODY went to Patrick and told him not to do the fast count." Nobody has specifically said it was Hogan that made the call, but i don't see how it could be anybody but. Did the tan/out of shape/drug issues play a part? very likely. But did Hogan find a way to turn it around so that he ultimately saved face? OFC.

 

i won't go so far as saying Starrcade '97 killed WCW. but for me personally, it was the beginning of my waning interest. 2 months earlier, i LOVED Halloween Havoc. Even the Hogan/Piper cage match that gets so much hate. 2 months later, SuperBrawl 8 felt like so much rehash that we weren't going anywhere. When Hogan won the title back from Savage the day after Spring Stampede, i was so incredibly let down and it pushed me even more to following the WWF. By the time summer came around with the Jay Leno shit, i was completely gone and 100% on the WWF train. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by twiztor

[BloodyChamp]

I can’t believe that story has survived so long on life support. The story about Sting being out of shape is nothing but something Hogan came up with, that Eric has stuck with over the years because of course his biggest fear is not being Hogan’s 4th in line when he wants somebody to suck his d*^%. 

Say Sting looking like crap is true...ok...lies are often fabricated from the truth of another matter. Gaslighting, leaving 1 or 2 things off the table. That doesn’t make the lie being told into the truth. It just didn’t matter. Sting had to win. Hogan didn’t want him to and that’s that.

And like I said in the Montreal thread...if I could mash a button and bet on a race around the building between Sting and Hogan that night in 1997 I’m betting all the money in my pocket on Sting. And if anybody wanted to give me a loan I wouldn’t need to be persuaded much to bet on Hogan needing an ambulance halfway through the race. It’s not like that had ever been a standard for being champion anyway. Maybe it should have been, but that’s another discussion. The last champion who was both in shape and physically attractive was actually Sting...7 years ago. Jeeze we’d seen people wearing that belt who looked like they were about to die like Flair when he was sick in 1991, a man suffering from a disease (The Giant), Vader who was...Vader. Now hold on...I love those guys and I’m not judging them. I’m just showing how incredibly stupid that story is that Hogan came up with. And Hogan. Yeah Hogan was also champion on days where he could barely walk to the ring with his knee.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by BloodyChamp

[JohnnyJ]

Do we have a reliable narrator on the Sting conditioning issue? Has it ever been confirmed by anyone other than the Bischoffs/Hogans of the world?

[zendragon]

Sting has confirmed that he was pretty messed up on drugs for a while in a recent piece  he wrote I think for the Athletic 

[BloodyChamp]

Sting has said he was bad off yes. I’m still taking him in a race around the building with Hogan in 1997. It’s not like being sober was a standard either.  It should have been but it’s another discussion just like being physically attractive is. The discussion here is that the person who was supposed to do business didn’t want to. 

I’ll even add 1 more thing that’s been used against Sting. He didn’t want to be back on the road 24/7. Still...that hadn’t been a standard for the WCW world champion for a long time. And the current champion at the time was an example. Sting just plain should have won the match no matter what.

 

[Go2Sleep]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:22 AM, Thunder Down Under said:

Regardless of Hogan’s scheming, what is the draw for SuperBrawl if the Starrcade match is decisive in Sting’s factor? The first Hogan/Piper match was non title which led into the title match at SuperBrawl, with Savage’s interference leading to the rubber match at Havoc. It wasn’t just the modern concept of “let’s have multiple matches in a year for no particular reason”. The execution of the disputed finish was horrible no doubt, but the idea behind it is the one that makes the most business sense. Any rematch after a decisive victory for Sting logically means that he either needs to lose the rematch to set up a rubber match, or you’re sending Hogan home for a while to freshen up, which just isn’t realistic given the times and his contract.    

Your last sentence is also totally wrong, which really hurts the wider argument. Starrcade 97 was their best PPV buyrate by far, but TV ratings were better in 98 than they were in 1997 (as well as breaking their attendance record multiple times after Starrcade), so for all of the hateable moments Starrcade 97 presented, it had no real negative effect on their business, which kinda contradicts any argument that it helped killed the company. It is as accurate as saying the Flair departure in 91 killed the company. 

I think a rematch happening just because Hogan lost the title would have sufficed. The Sting/NWO feud had more than enough momentum for multiple ppv matches. In a perfect world, you have a Sting semi-squash at Starrcade, then Hogan comes back much more prepared and they have a longer, more competitive match at Superbrawl. They could even get away with a screwy finish in the rematch to transition to the NWO breakup angle while Sting moved on to other feuds. I know, good luck getting Hogan to job in 2 straight matches at that time, but one of the biggest problems the Starrcade match exemplified was Hogan's outsized influence in creative when he should've been made to pass the torch.

On the second point, there has to be some nuance when using the phrase "killed the company." Sting/Hogan was the first obvious crack in the dam, not the final break that sent WCW on its death spiral (that would probably be the finger poke if I had to pick one thing). WCW still had inertia to be viable despite one bad show, and along with the general growth in the wrestling market at the time, it's no surprise they hung on a bit longer. Worth noting, however, they never had a ppv that approached the Starrcade 97 buyrate again, which supports the idea that a good chunk of the fanbase did feel burned by the show itself. Wrestlemania 14 and 15 (both of which delivered supreme triumph for the top face if nothing else) surpassed the Starrcade 97 buys for comparison.

Also with the benefit of full historical hindsight, we can safely say that WCW did in fact fold just over 3 years after Starrcade 97. Obviously the same did not happen after Flair left.

[JohnnyJ]

Here's my anecdotal story about the death of WCW/ppv numbers. The audience at the time was much younger than it is today and ppvs were really expensive. My friend group was divided into three categories, (1.) the few diehards, (2.) the ones who got into it due to the wrestling boom, and (3.) the people who just enjoyed having a get together on a Sunday night. 

We would pool our money together to buy ppvs. The diehards wanted to watch everything. WCW put on a bunch of ppv stinkers and gave away just about everything on free tv (remember that Goldberg as hot as he was was really a tv attraction, not a ppv attraction) The tide had shifted and the boomers moved from WCW to WWF when Austin/Rock got molten hot.  Over a relatively short period of time only the diehards wanted to shell out money to watch WCW ppvs. I was stuck watching screenshots of WCW ppvs in real time on web sites like lordsofpain.net. 

This was not going to be reflected in the ratings because the fun of the monday night wars was switching back and forth. More eyeballs on wrestling meant higher ratings all around. 

By 99 I was in college and the boom was over. There were still WWE people floating around but there wasn't a single casual wrestling fan I knew who would be caught dead watching WCW. It was me alone in a dorm room watching nitros and listening to wcw live.