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ROH FINAL BATTLE- 12/10/2022!


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2 hours ago, MoeCristyV.1.6 said:

Will americans ever learn how to count a Giant Swing properly? They counted 3 numbers within one rotation multiple times... 

What do you expect from the country that says math and not maths?

😉.

Edited by The Natural
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Just rewatched Jericho/Claudio (after making my wife watch FTR/Briscoes.  She really dug it.) and it's really good.  The Giant Swing at the end was a modern marvel of physical prowess.  I really dug Claudio taking the Kobashi/Misawa 98 bump off the apron to the floor.  It wasn't enough to make me part with forty bucks so it's good that it was on the same card as FTR/Briscoes.  I now wonder what Jericho will do next.

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11 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

That's why I think it'll be good business for both ROH and Rampage. As of two days ago, WrestleTix had Final Battle at:

Available Tickets => 1,297

Current Setup/Capacity => 3,524

Tickets Distributed => 2,227

The stand-alone Dark/Live Rampage I attended two months ago at a casino in Nowhere, CT (which seemed super empty) was at:

Available Tickets => 1,593
Current Setup/Capacity => 5,388
Tickets Distributed => 3,795

That makes me think they might do well to combine the tapings.

I think you're making a misstep in your numbers here. People willing to go to a stand alone Rampage taping arent different from the people willing to see ROH TV taping. You don't get to add those two attendances together. They're over lapping.

Basically the average total attendance interested in AEW & ROH breakdown like this (roughly):

-AEW PPV : 10,000ish
-Dynamite : 5,000ish
-ROH PPV : 2,500ish
-Rampage : 2,500ish
-ROH TV : ?
-Dark : 500ish

If the actual number for ROH TV is 1,000 you don't get to add that to The Rampage numbers. Because the likeliness is out of the 2,500 going to Rampage, 1,000 of them are the 1,000 willing to go to an ROH taping.

It's my long winded way of saying doing a joint ROH TV & Rampage taping is going to net you zero more tickets sold vs a stand along Rampage taping. If you're a fan not interested in seeing Rampage in your town, adding an ROH TV isn't very likely to move the needle for you. Two B shows vs One B show doesn't mean a whole lot to the people only wanting to see an A show or better.

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43 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I think you're making a misstep in your numbers here. People willing to go to a stand alone Rampage taping arent different from the people willing to see ROH TV taping. You don't get to add those two attendances together. They're over lapping.

Basically the average total attendance interested in AEW & ROH breakdown like this (roughly):

-AEW PPV : 10,000ish
-Dynamite : 5,000ish
-ROH PPV : 2,500ish
-Rampage : 2,500ish
-ROH TV : ?
-Dark : 500ish

If the actual number for ROH TV is 1,000 you don't get to add that to The Rampage numbers. Because the likeliness is out of the 2,500 going to Rampage, 1,000 of them are the 1,000 willing to go to an ROH taping.

It's my long winded way of saying doing a joint ROH TV & Rampage taping is going to net you zero more tickets sold vs a stand along Rampage taping. If you're a fan not interested in seeing Rampage in your town, adding an ROH TV isn't very likely to move the needle for you. Two B shows vs One B show doesn't mean a whole lot to the people only wanting to see an A show or better.

I don’t know, I think there is a big value add of potentially having two hours of ROH show taping with a live Rampage vs. two hours of YouTube tapings (which I enjoy but are mostly enhancement squashes). You’re likely to have more competitive matches, storylines/angles, title defenses. For people who were on the fence about a live Rampage, seeing familiar names and an actual advance ROH card could tip them into buying a ticket. Would it be worth the cost of travel for the company? That’s a fair question .

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2 hours ago, JLowe said:

I don’t know, I think there is a big value add of potentially having two hours of ROH show taping with a live Rampage vs. two hours of YouTube tapings (which I enjoy but are mostly enhancement squashes). You’re likely to have more competitive matches, storylines/angles, title defenses. For people who were on the fence about a live Rampage, seeing familiar names and an actual advance ROH card could tip them into buying a ticket. Would it be worth the cost of travel for the company? That’s a fair question .

I think in an ideally perfect world, we would get TWO hours of live Rampage every week playing and then having RoH taped before that which would inherently increase the value of Rampage as a must see show. Issue with that is - AEW has a hard enough time of keeping Rampage in a stable one hour slot so I don't know if WBD is THAT happy with them. Then you have the problem of basically going head to head with SmackDown, but that's also the problem with back dooring yourself to only Friday nights and having your main show be in the middle of the week. They've limited the days they will do business because of the NFL to Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday essentially with no TV for Monday or Thursday (even though I think Thursday would work, but is back to back days of live wrestling too much?).

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56 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Take this stuff to the finances thread

Should be renamed the "AEW nitpicking it all to death because it isn't EXACTLY how you'd run a wrestling company so bitch here so the rest of us can fucking enjoy something" thread. 

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2 hours ago, JLowe said:

I don’t know, I think there is a big value add of potentially having two hours of ROH show taping with a live Rampage vs. two hours of YouTube tapings (which I enjoy but are mostly enhancement squashes). You’re likely to have more competitive matches, storylines/angles, title defenses. For people who were on the fence about a live Rampage, seeing familiar names and an actual advance ROH card could tip them into buying a ticket. Would it be worth the cost of travel for the company? That’s a fair question .

I just disagree. We won't be able to know for sure until / if they try it. But AEW PPVs get 5x the amount of buys as ROH PPVs. I'm not sure what makes everyone think the average fan that goes to AEW cares about ROH that much. I get the value of two company tapings vs one. But if you're not especially interested in ROH to begin with, adding their stars and TV tapings to an AEW event isn't much of an added value.

 

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

Take this stuff to the finances thread

This thread would have 5 posts if none of the TV speculation was in here. But okay. Will do. Nothing makes wrestling discussion more fun then segmenting things so much I'm not even allowed to talk about something said at the PPV press conference in the PPV thread.

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19 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

Should be renamed the "AEW nitpicking it all to death because it isn't EXACTLY how you'd run a wrestling company so bitch here so the rest of us can fucking enjoy something" thread. 

So it’s basically 2/3 of the threads on this site?  Lol, just as well as I haven’t checked it out,

I find all the AEW threads  a chore.  They all boil down to a seesaw battle between people nitpicking the product and people offended that someone doesn’t love everything the company does.

Edited by Confused Villanova Grad
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55 minutes ago, Confused Villanova Grad said:

So it’s basically 2/3 of the threads on this site?  Lol, just as well as I haven’t checked it out,

I find all the AEW threads  a chore.  They all boil down to a seesaw battle between people nitpicking the product and people offended that someone doesn’t love everything the company does.

I think that's an inaccurate view, but that's my POV. I don't even watch most of the shows live and often fast forward through stuff that doesn't interest me because why subject myself to something I know I'll probably dislike?

I think that most folks here who are generally pro-AEW can recognize all the faults and wouldn't hesitate to agree with certain criticisms - the way I absolutely agree with the idea that most AEW threads are indeed a chore to navigate. It's the folks who do nothing but relentlessly shit on the product that make everything a slog. No matter what TK and The Elite and yadda yadda do, it's bad because it's not what this random fanboy online would do. Weird fucking phenomenon if you ask me.

Thankfully it is a minority, and the ignore function helps, to a degree 😁

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I forgot to comment last night. I thought the show was pretty good. Obviously FTR vs. The Briscoes was the match of the night. It's a crime that they didn't get to build that up on tv or something. They should have announced this match last month so we could have at least gotten some good twitter videos from Mark and Jay.

I was shocked as I'm sure everyone else at how Claudio won. I thought they were backed into a corner with that stip of if he didn't win he had to join the JAS. I still didn't expect him to win and winning on a tap from the giant swing. Claudio even looked shocked which just put it over the top.

Overall a fun and good show. What else could you want.

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1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I prefer weird complaining to whatever’s happening here. Quick, someone have a take on where the Juice Robinson match was placed on the show! 

I don’t like how vague his name is. What type of juice is he? A video package would have helped, Tony!

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19 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Fair point. But I'm factoring in the tiny fraction of people who will buy Honor Club. The ROH PPVs have generated around 30k buys. So lets say everyone one of those gets Honor Club. That's still only 30k people following your product in a country of 330 million. They really won't be a viable touring brand based on their own merit. They'd have to sprinkle in known AEW quantities to help draw. Then you're diluting AEW that way.

Now maybe they choose to go the studio wrestling route. You alleviate the touring and need for drawing in different markets. But the numbers have borne out that studio wrestling doesn't draw as many viewers as traditional arena wrestling. So then you have a slightly different problem, less people are watching due to the content.

But then you circle back to my original point. In either circumstance you're drawing resources and man power and brain power away from THE brand. It's dicey. And I'm not saying 100% for sure I'm in the right and have all the answers. I'm just saying it's been a year, they didn't get WBD to bite on a TV product, main line AEW has slowly been faltering. I just don't see the benefits of keeping this a brand going forward anymore. It's subtraction by addition.

I reserve the right to change this line of thinking if TK goes hands off and allows an infrastructure where it's a developmental brand ran by someone else. But as is, I've seen enough to call it. It wasn't a bad idea. It just didn't work out. And even in not working out, it was still worth it because that library is invaluable for the future.

I think there is value in keeping ROH as a separate feeder/developmental league that goes beyond just making profit. More some talent over there to alleviate some of the roster bloat (what ever you feel about the size of TK's deep bench there are a lot of people under contract) you can occasionally move people back and forth to keep them fresh, and it keeps you from having to release talent.

Also wrestling as a touring attraction seems to be going the way of the old school territories, take a page from Lucha Underground and build a ROH Arena in a warehouse and run tapings. (Having watched LU on Netflix and Tubi I think a weekly streaming wrestling show could really work)

I Do agree that TK hopefully has learned to delegate 

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