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DYNAMITE!- 11/30/2022!


DEAN

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3 minutes ago, LF2 said:

I’m not going to be watching if they stretch this out another year. MJF doing his worst impression of 2003 Triple H is unbearable, and dragging it out endlessly won’t help attendance or the ratings. 

Let me take this completely earnestly from you, separating you from other posters.

So I was pretty critical last night, and everyone watches for their own reasons and to fit their life, but this feels like an extreme reaction in some ways. If you were to say "I'm not going to watch live anymore." or "I'm going to avoid the main event scene." or "I won't drop money on the PPVs.", I hear you! I'd even encourage you. But the value of AEW is in stuff like Dax vs Danielson or Shinno Hagane v Angelico. If you don't care about that stuff (or some subsection of it! Maybe Hayter vs Storm is for you instead, or spotfest six-mans, or Mox doing his Hansen impression) first and foremost, I'm not sure why you're watching/writing about/interacting with people about AEW. Yes, you need stories and promos to help justify the matches and give them stakes and meaning, but you're always going to have an e-fedder's mentality to how that should work in this company.

Just save yourself grief and watch it the next day using a source (FITE or otherwise) that has the PIP full screen. Skip through the stuff you don't want to see. You'll be happier. WE will be happier because you'll be happier. I want the company to succeed so more people can have work and there's stability, but I mainly want it to succeed so they can give me more matches I want to see. I'm actually in agreement with @Gordlowto a degree that I don't want them to score ratings and attendance success if it means giving me less of what I want. It's just that what I want and what he wants aren't exactly in unison.

What do you want? If it's "well balanced storylines with compelling characters" first and foremost as opposed to "really strong matches that have at least a patina of meaning behind them," there are definitely better uses of your time than watching AEW and I'm happy to suggest a bunch of older wrestling and the means to find it. Yes, we probably should be able to have our cake and eat it too (though how many prolonged runs in wrestling history hit on both marks successfully), but it's probably not going to happen, so for the sake of your own well-being, try to maximize your happiness is all I'm saying.

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45 minutes ago, Casey said:

What’s this talk about Jungle Boy maybe having backstage drama?

One of the Ass Boys (Rod, I think) basically worked himself into a shoot over something Jungle Boy said and accused Boy of getting pushed because he hangs out with Tony Khan. I don't think either Ass Boy has much of a leg to stand on when it pertains to "only getting a spot because of who they know..."

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Man, MJF. So he rightfully deserves praise because of the tools he possesses to be a great, maybe even all-time wrestler - his verbal delivery is excellent, good in the ring, good physical charisma. But he very much can still come across as a guy playing pro wrestler, regardless of those tools.

Its like a slam dunk 1/1 NFL Draft quarterback prospect with a huge arm (verbal skills), running ability (in-ring) and size (presence), but he’s in his rookie or second season of a team handing him the starting job and…I don’t know which direction this is going to go. Is he Zach Wilson, is he Patrick Mahomes, or is he something in the middle.

Zach Wilson is a guy playing the role of quarterback, Mahomes is a quarterback, and both posses similar, elite physical skills. I don’t know which one Max is yet and seemingly every time he hits a home run out there he seems to follow it up with whatever that hell that was last night, or the one in Cincinnati on Pillman Jr, or some other god awful thing that pulls me back to thinking the other way.

Edited by For Great Justice
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-I dug this opener. Mox and Hanger are two of my top five favorite guys right now (Starks, Jungle Boy, Yuta) so seeing them get to run this back is a pure joy. I feel like AEW doesn't do enough "backstage chaos" segments (good ones, anyway), so Mox & Page brawling in the back was even more fun.

-Dax and Danielson did exactly what we all thought; they burned that bitch down. Holy shit was that fun. I saw that Dax said that he and Cash's contracts are up in April. Here's to hoping TK does the smart thing and backs the Brinks truck up to their houses. They have gone from "Hey look, it's those guys from nXt we like" to "how the hell is there ever an AEW show without these guys on it?"

-AR Fox is a joy to watch. I saw him numerous times at ACTION Wrestling in my hometown of Tyrone, Ga. He rules and Joe rules. Wardlow/Joe is going to be carnage.

-For whatever reason, Hager's obsession with that bucket hat is exactly the brand of horseshit that I love.

-This MJF segment is.. something. I think I figured out what my issue with Max is. He burns through material so fast. He's incredibly inefficient with his cheap heat. He could get a reaction with 10-15% of what he does. It also seemed like the crowd was mic'ed funny, as they went from super hot to crickets almost arbitrarily. I do think TK has a problem on his hands, and AEW can't afford to hemorrhage viewers while MJF cosplays Papa H. The easiest solution would be to have Mox whip his ass at the next PPV, but I have a feeling all this is gonna take some serious course correction. I don't see how TK can let Regal leave while saying "no" to Malakai, Buddy and Andrade. Someone said it earlier, but when you compare MJF to someone like Christian, and it becomes very easy to see how valuable tv experience is. I'd seriously consider having Christian and Luchasaurus (probably unmasked and retooled) join MJF. He'd benefit so much from having a polished tv presence with him every week.

-Ricky Starks, again, is everything guys like MJF wish they were; effortlessly believable and cool. I'd think long and hard about Starks taking the title off of MJF. There's too many guys who would do well as champ in AEW to let MJF do this "2024" schtick forever and ever. Also, Stokely is awesome and Ethan Page has really plateaued. I think he's a super talented guy, but this intense heel thing is not in his wheelhouse. He comes off so likable in his vlogs that I think he should just embrace it fully.

-Willow Nightingale is one of the rarest things in pro wrestling; a naturally likable babyface that gets the reaction she's trying to. She's really great and TK was smart to lock her down when he did. I think her signing, along with Bandido's, RUSH's, and AR Fox's, is signaling a return to what AEW was doing really well; highlighting the best indy talent in the world while building their show around select stars. Anna JAS has regressed, and as I said before, I think working a few house shows a month would do wonders for her, if she can stay healthy. Ruby is a sentimental favorite and I was very happy to see her return. I thought her booking was pretty poor before her injury and I hope they've figured out something for her to do. I'd love to see a title reign in her future.

-God am I tired of hearing Britt Baker talk. 

-Jade Cargill is a star. She has the "IT factor" by the bucketload. She is exactly who she says she is and who TK is portraying her on tv. Having said that, I think she would really benefit from having a "hype man" type around her. Someone to say all the standard wrestling things, freeing up Jade to talk about how awesome she is. Very, very happy to see Red Velvet. We'll say it's because I missed her ring work. It's not true, but we'll say that's why.

-Am I.... enjoyin this best of 7 series? Yes. Yes I think I am. The Elite entrance is super cool with the "Carry On Wayward Son," and I'm impressed that they managed to offer a completely different match structure here. I'm still not convinced doing that 4 more times is smart, and I'm glad they're taking a week off, but Nicholas, Matthew, and Kenjamin are SO much more palatable to me when they aren't the focal point of every show. I still wonder how much having the show built around those guys hindered AEW's growth during that period. Anyway, really good shit here. 

 

All in all, this show has been like every AEW show the last month or so; some good, some bad. I'd be very tempted to build around Hangman and Mox for the foreseeable future, but I understand why Tony feels like he has to find out what he has with MJF before committing to him long-term. It's smart from a sports perspective and a business perspective. However, he cannot be as shy about course correcting as he has been in the past. I'm looking forward to watching the next phase in Ricky Starks' development, and hope this is just the start for guys like him and Jungle Boy and so much of AEW's young talent.

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42 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

Man, MJF. So he rightfully deserves praise because of the tools he possesses to be a great, maybe even all-time wrestler - his verbal delivery is excellent, good in the ring, good physical charisma. But he very much can still come across as a guy playing pro wrestler, regardless of those tools.

Its like a slam dunk 1/1 NFL Draft quarterback prospect with a huge arm (verbal skills), running ability (in-ring) and size (presence), but he’s in his rookie or second season of a team handing him the starting job and…I don’t know which direction this is going to go. Is he Zach Wilson, is he Patrick Mahomes, or is he something in the middle.

Zach Wilson is a guy playing the role of quarterback, Mahomes is a quarterback, and both posses similar, elite physical skills. I don’t know which one Max is yet and seemingly every time he hits a home run out there he seems to follow it up with whatever that hell that was last night, or the one in Cincinnati on Pillman Jr, or some other god awful thing that pulls me back to thinking the other way.

That was my first thought, too. You use a high draft pick on a kid and at some point you have to find out if they can play. If MJF were a professional athlete, his inconsistency would've gotten at least one assistant coach fired by now...

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50 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Let me take this completely earnestly from you, separating you from other posters.

So I was pretty critical last night, and everyone watches for their own reasons and to fit their life, but this feels like an extreme reaction in some ways. If you were to say "I'm not going to watch live anymore." or "I'm going to avoid the main event scene." or "I won't drop money on the PPVs.", I hear you! I'd even encourage you. But the value of AEW is in stuff like Dax vs Danielson or Shinno Hagane v Angelico. If you don't care about that stuff (or some subsection of it! Maybe Hayter vs Storm is for you instead, or spotfest six-mans, or Mox doing his Hansen impression) first and foremost, I'm not sure why you're watching/writing about/interacting with people about AEW. Yes, you need stories and promos to help justify the matches and give them stakes and meaning, but you're always going to have an e-fedder's mentality to how that should work in this company.

Just save yourself grief and watch it the next day using a source (FITE or otherwise) that has the PIP full screen. Skip through the stuff you don't want to see. You'll be happier. WE will be happier because you'll be happier. I want the company to succeed so more people can have work and there's stability, but I mainly want it to succeed so they can give me more matches I want to see. I'm actually in agreement with @Gordlowto a degree that I don't want them to score ratings and attendance success if it means giving me less of what I want. It's just that what I want and what he wants aren't exactly in unison.

What do you want? If it's "well balanced storylines with compelling characters" first and foremost as opposed to "really strong matches that have at least a patina of meaning behind them," there are definitely better uses of your time than watching AEW and I'm happy to suggest a bunch of older wrestling and the means to find it. Yes, we probably should be able to have our cake and eat it too (though how many prolonged runs in wrestling history hit on both marks successfully), but it's probably not going to happen, so for the sake of your own well-being, try to maximize your happiness is all I'm saying.

While I agree that the value of AEW is in incredible matches like Dax vs. Danielson, there's one problem: to get people to watch AEW, you have to have a World champion (and secondary title holders) that people actually want to see. All the matches that take place are supposed to build up storylines leading to title shots. Otherwise, it's just Tony Khan throwing wrestlers into the ring because he fantasy booked his way into it. Logically speaking, why would Dax and Danielson fight in the first place? What's the payoff? Danielson needing to find a tag partner against FTR for any of their tag titles? But nope can't do that because now Danielson is involved with MJF due to his coming to Regal's aid.

Past AEW World champions delivered on some level. Kenny Omega is doing the exact same thing MJF (being an attraction) is trying to do except he had incredible matches. Hangman Page (whose reign MJF's starting to resemble) wasn't great on the mic but he had the match of his life (twice) vs Danielson. Moxley, despite his questionable choices in the ring and somewhat cookie cutter matches and Jim Cornette not liking any of them (Fuck Cornette, there I said it), delivered where it counted. Jericho even delivered.

Yeah, there are better usages of time than actually watching AEW at this point. Tony Khan has a whole slew of veteran talent/wrestlers that could build longevity for him but he chooses to ignore it.

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3 minutes ago, Andrew POE! said:

people

People who?

Who are these people? And why do we care about them enough to dedicate even 250 words to them and what they need? Especially the same 250 words over and over again. I've got some matches to write about.

Edited by Matt D
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2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

People who?

Who are these people? And why do we care about them enough to dedicate even 250 words to them and what they need? Especially the same 250 words over and over again. I've got some matches to write about.

People in this case are the potential audience not watching AEW, people currently watching AEW and people watching AEW and changing the channel. You don't have to be insulting about it.

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19 minutes ago, Andrew POE! said:

People in this case are the potential audience not watching AEW, people currently watching AEW and people watching AEW and changing the channel. You don't have to be insulting about it.

You're right that I shouldn't have taken such a tone, so apologies for that. I do think I sort of covered some of what you were saying in my post though. I want the company to do well enough that it doesn't go out of business certainly, because if it goes out of business, it can't provide wrestlers with work or me with matches, but we do sort of have a thread for such doomsaying that was set up to funnel such discussions :

If you want to speculate about how MJF as champ doing this for weeks on end could hurt ratings/attendance moving forward, that's probably a better thread for it.

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8 minutes ago, hobo joe said:

If Tony lets Regal go back to WWE he's a fucking idiot.

3 year contract Meltzer said. Said this before, WWE letting William Regal is one of the most stupid releases ever. That man can do it all: wrestle, talk, commentary, face, heel, authority, comedy, teach etc. If Regal's available on the market, he's an instant hire.

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I thought the MJF thing would have been fine if it was like six minutes shorter.  Come out, talk about the e-mail from Regal, run down Ricky Starks, unveil the belt, attack Regal, bing bang boom.  The biggest sin (aside from the length) is that the new belt looks like shit.  The colors on the strap are too muddy and dark to read as Burberry on TV.  I think the turn makes sense for both characters; MJF having a chip on his shoulder about needing Regal's help to finally win a big match, Regal being a little soo self-satisfied with his own intelligence to realize that MJF would obviously turn on him.

The real chad booking after a too-long promo about how he'll be the longest-reigning champion and only defend on PPVs is to have him lose to Starks at Winter is Coming and then start a blood feud with Danielson over killing his fake dad, but that ain't gonna happen.

Speaking of Danielson goddamn did I enjoy that match with Dax.  The opening sequence made total sense in that a tapehead like Dax would have Danielson's stuff scouted and counters planned out.  Dax also did a bunch of great little stuff, like pushing on the back of Danielson's head to keep him from slipping out of the headscissors.  The upkick from Danielson activating Angry Dax could have been a cheesy NXT-ish spot but they made it work.  Doing the super-nasty suplex over the barricades onto concrete during the commercial was a bit of a head-scratcher, but goddamn that was a good bump.  And for a guy with his injury history Danielson has a real commitment to landing on his neck at weird angles.  My only real criticism is that some of the I-reverse-now-you-reverse sequences went on a little long, but fuck that was a good match.

Loved the opening brawl, too.  Mox falling off the ramp was one of those serendipitous accidents that made it feel even more chaotic.  They should have kept cutting back to Mox and Hanger fighting in different locations: in the back, on the street, at a McDonalds, &c, &c.  

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  • Opening segment worked. It was short and sweet and to the point. I think I hoped for half a second that the Briscoes would answer the challenge so that they could heat up the ROH PPV with some sort of dream match, but I'm glad Page is feeling better (even if I generally don't want to see him wrestle). Mox is one of the better opponents for him and they should have a pretty heated match that's more about them hitting each other than Page hitting springboard clotheslines or whatever.
  • I'll write more about Dax vs Danielson on Monday, but it was very good. There were a few moments in the first third where Dax seemed to be almost stutter stepping heading into things and I don't know if that was nerves or what. It didn't negatively impact the match because it generally led to something that wasn't supposed to work (a series of counters) instead of something that was smoothly supposed to work, but it was a little jarring. Like the best part of the AEW house style, they had to work for things, which is good for Danielson because he has so many different things. Here it was just his kick, so that when he finally did hit it, even once, it was a viable near-fall. A lot of Dax being in control here, aggressively, but without major heat, so it made for a different sort of match than even some of the more neutral Danielson ones from the last year. Loved the fake out punch before the pile driver, as that was a different twist but it fit the match and the specific things they'd been doing/trying. I could live with the endless clotheslines, because again, it fit Danielson and was a different take on that idea. Best part of the whole thing might have been Dax faking out that he wasn't going to shake his hand post match.
  • Enjoyed AR Fox vs Joe a lot too. Heel turn was a good thing for Joe as there are a lot of guys he can base for as a heel and I'll take a flyer vs a base over a flyer vs a flyer anyday. First walk away from Joe was about as gif worthy as you can get due to his facial expression. Second one directly led to the finish after Fox's really good flurry. Fox took all of Joe's stuff in the corner well. Post-match was a little rough. Joe's King of Television shtick is good. Wardlow's World really needs to be rethought.
  • Going back to a bunch of old ROH matches for the PPV is probably a bad idea. I'm ok seeing Yuta vs Garcia again, but the progression has been unstable to say the least.
  • MJF thing is still best described as a shame. I do hope this isn't it for Regal. The idea of Regal lost and confused on who he's supposed to be and what he's supposed to represent in 2022 is kind of fascinating but I'm not sure he'd be interested in exploring that. The perfect place for that to lead him would be to Adam Page or Eddie Kingston, actually, but it's kind of moot to go too deep into that when most likely scenario has him leaving.
  • Starks should have probably said something on the mic on the way out to register what just happened, something about how MJF may not respect wrestling/the company/etc., but he'd damn well learn to respect him in two week's time. That sort of thing. Davari jobbing so much and showing so much ass makes it look worse when he actually does well elsewhere. They should protect him at least a little and use Slim J or Sonny Kiss or JVSK in that spot. Hardy made the most of his ten seconds there. I'd say that the Hardy/Page stuff is the second or third best storyline over the last month or two in AEW (up there with Athena), but a lot of people aren't even seeing it.
  • Willow was super over. I'm with DEAN on the idea that she's over enough to challenge Hayter, but only on the idea that she loses to set up her win against Athena later. One thing I liked about the Anna match was how the idea that she went to a chinlock when she was behind Willow during the PIP instead of the Queenslayer was validated by how easily Willow crushed her when she put the Queenslayer on later. Obviously someone as strong as Willow had to be sufficiently worn down first. Ruby's appearance post match probably would have worked better as a save with Tay and Anna beating down Willow, right?
  • I think I blinked and I missed the Jade thing but it's leading to Kiera Hogan vs Jade, right?
  • Match 3 of 9: Nick Bockwinkel (c) vs Jumbo Tsuruta 6/22/80: This was in AWA territory and Baba was in to commentate for Japanese TV. That means, Heenan was there, Mean Gene did the Ring Announcing ("Tommy" Jumbo Tsuruta) and Verne said before the match he'd wrestle the winner. Heenan then shoved him for no good reason and Verne clocked him, which made Heenan sort of a non-factor for much of the match. Match itself was very good. They worked the entry point much differently than the last two, more of the format of Bockwinkel trying to abuse Jumbo and then Jumbo firing back tit-for-tat. If Bock would get an arm drag and slam him then Jumbo would get the spots as revenge and show him up. Bock took over with some real chippy stuff, just a double leg that looked like they were shooting and hard, hard shots onto the arm. He was trying to contain Jumbo but Jumbo hit the jumping knee and started to meanly work over the back. Bock may have unlocked grumpy Jumbo years early with how hard they were going at it. Less long holds here, but definite focus to try to set up the double underhook suplex and abdominal stretch. Bockwinkel would try to figure up from underneath but Jumbo stayed on him. When they finally got to the hold, Bock was able to push them out of the ring. He came back in with a bunch of headlock cheapshots to the throat. Two of the things I tend to give Bock credit for are his total engagement and full body selling as the match goes on. The cross-section of the two is how he just throws his entire body into everything he does. If he throws a punch, he'll sort of recoil back with it. There's a spot here where he goes for a pile driver, can't get it, and Jumbo gets one shortly thereafter, and as he's up, he's just flailing his feet perfectly. But he does that with almost everything. It's just this amazing performance presence in the moment that almost not other wrestler can live up to (Terry Funk and... maybe Negro Casas and Buddy Rose and I'm not even sure who else?). Jumbo kept coming back with the crowd definitely behind him, with Bock trying to slow him down, including with a King of the Mountain. Ultimately, they ended back up in the stretch, but Bock was able to hiptoss Jumbo right into the ref. Great ref bump but the follow up was muddled. Heenan took too long to blatantly interfere. They couldn't get the ref in the right place soon enough, etc. Shame as the match itself was great. So three matches, three different feels and structures, all good stuff.
    Spoiler

     

     

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5 minutes ago, Matt D said:
  • Best part of the whole thing might have been Dax faking out that he wasn't going to shake his hand post match.

The collective gasp from the crowd when he turned his back on Danielson was a thing of beauty.

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18 minutes ago, The Natural said:

3 year contract Meltzer said. Said this before, WWE letting William Regal is one of the most stupid releases ever. That man can do it all: wrestle, talk, commentary, face, heel, authority, comedy, teach etc. If Regal's available on the market, he's an instant hire.

It might have been a one-year contract with a two-year option on Regal's side. Which would be the kind of thing that the sheets would simultaneously report as a one-year and a three-year deal. But we don't know. And now we're discussing non-wrestling things in a thread about wrestling but this is what's going to happen when financial/contract/TV status affects the on-screen product.

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48 minutes ago, hobo joe said:

If Tony lets Regal go back to WWE he's a fucking idiot.

He was arguably already an idiot in this particular instance for not having Regal in a backstage role similar to what he was doing in WWE, and strictly be an on-screen character instead.

I’m always of the opinion that if someone wants to go, let them. Don’t poison the well by forcing people to stay. But I’m just a poor dude from Tennessee, I’m not running the #2 wrestling promotion in North America.

Edited by Casey
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1 hour ago, For Great Justice said:

Man, MJF. So he rightfully deserves praise because of the tools he possesses to be a great, maybe even all-time wrestler - his verbal delivery is excellent, good in the ring, good physical charisma. But he very much can still come across as a guy playing pro wrestler, regardless of those tools.

Its like a slam dunk 1/1 NFL Draft quarterback prospect with a huge arm (verbal skills), running ability (in-ring) and size (presence), but he’s in his rookie or second season of a team handing him the starting job and…I don’t know which direction this is going to go. Is he Zach Wilson, is he Patrick Mahomes, or is he something in the middle.

Zach Wilson is a guy playing the role of quarterback, Mahomes is a quarterback, and both posses similar, elite physical skills. I don’t know which one Max is yet and seemingly every time he hits a home run out there he seems to follow it up with whatever that hell that was last night, or the one in Cincinnati on Pillman Jr, or some other god awful thing that pulls me back to thinking the other way.

MJF is on pace to be Cam Newton. Elite talent, but the coaching staff takes his most dangerous yet self-destructive attribute and runs it into the ground causing him to flame out way earlier than he should.

TK has shown some willingness to reverse course on things before, so hopefully he takes a good look at this segment and sees that ain't it. MJF needs to stick to "I'm better than you and you know it" instead of "bidding war of 2024." Both are mega-heel catchphrases, but the first one has the subtext that AEW features the actual best wrestlers in the world, while the second has the subtext that AEW is a cheap small-market team that isn't trying to put out the best product. This is where a shadow authority figure could be real handy. Just have whoever say "Actually per your contract, as a champion, you are now subject to AEW champion standards and regulations which means you will defend the title whenever we say" and then run the same number of Dynamite defenses as everyone else with him. If we get a baseline of MJF from the Darby Allin feud, his reign will be just fine.

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7 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I think they made what they could out of the MJF/Regal angle - it was consistent with MJF's motivations and character, it set up three new programs and possibly wrote off Regal all together. They just shouldn't have put themselves in the position to begin with.

I just didn't get why he kept trying to bait Regal with mentioning HHH, and fake wrestler Bryan Danielson seemingly to try and incite a reaction from him that went nowhere. Why did Regal look miserable and unhappy the whole segment. 

I was noticing that, it looked like he was getting pissed at MJF and I honestly expected him to do the sucker punch and then say something like "that's not why I did what I did. You'll never get it".

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