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NFL 2022 - WEEK 12


Dolfan in NYC
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The Eagles are scary good. The truth is the Packers came to play the 3 times it looked like their season was on the line. They beat the Cowboys. They didn’t beat the Bills or even come close but that was before the Bills had their issues, and the Bills were just that much better than the Packers at their best. I think this game is the same thing. The Packers actually played well but they are just not in any potential SB champion’s league. 

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1 hour ago, JLowe said:

Don’t think Jalen Hurts ever showed this level of talent in college

I wrote a pretty in depth rebuttal to this, and somehow the board logged me out and lost it.  In summary, Jalen Hurts is an all time great college quarterback who performed at a ridiculously high level since the day we learned his name.  His last season in college would be an all-time Heisman season if Joe Burrow, who had the single best quarterbacking season of all time, didn't exist.  

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Hurts was indeed great in college but the way he was used (by that I mean, also lots of rushing) it seemed to lead NFL teams into thinking he was more of a gadget guy than someone that could stand in the pocket and throw passes accurately all over the field. He had super talent but there was uncertainty if he had a NFL-level arm and the ability to read defenses as a pro. I think even the coach of the Eagles said when they drafted him that he'd be a Taysom Hill like player, he wasn't drafted to be the starting QB since they had Wentz.

Its great to see his growth year to year, it kinda reminds me of Josh Allen in that his first year wasn't good, his second year he improved but still was pretty average, and then Year 3 everything started clicking. I enjoy a success story and also it helps to have examples when a player is bad Year 1 that some skills just need developing in the right environment.

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8 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

Hurts was indeed great in college but the way he was used (by that I mean, also lots of rushing) it seemed to lead NFL teams into thinking he was more of a gadget guy than someone that could stand in the pocket and throw passes accurately all over the field. He had super talent but there was uncertainty if he had a NFL-level arm and the ability to read defenses as a pro. I think even the coach of the Eagles said when they drafted him that he'd be a Taysom Hill like player, he wasn't drafted to be the starting QB since they had Wentz.

Its great to see his growth year to year, it kinda reminds me of Josh Allen in that his first year wasn't good, his second year he improved but still was pretty average, and then Year 3 everything started clicking. I enjoy a success story and also it helps to have examples when a player is bad Year 1 that some skills just need developing in the right environment.

Jalen Hurts at Oklahoma, 237-340 69.7% 3851 32 TDs 8 INTs 1298 rushing yards and another 20 TDs. I'm not saying he's Patrick Mahomes, but he's twice the talent that Mac Jones is and no one talks about Mac Jones like they talk about Jalen Hurts.  Hurts was SEC player of the year as a freshman, he led his team to the playoffs every single season, and he played better with lesser talent when he went to Oklahoma.  At a certain point we have to admit that we have no idea how to judge quarterback prospects.  Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Zach Wilson, etc.  all "better" prospects than Jalen Hurts, when Hurts performed better than all of them in college.  

 

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1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Jalen Hurts at Oklahoma, 237-340 69.7% 3851 32 TDs 8 INTs 1298 rushing yards and another 20 TDs. I'm not saying he's Patrick Mahomes, but he's twice the talent that Mac Jones is and no one talks about Mac Jones like they talk about Jalen Hurts.  Hurts was SEC player of the year as a freshman, he led his team to the playoffs every single season, and he played better with lesser talent when he went to Oklahoma.  At a certain point we have to admit that we have no idea how to judge quarterback prospects.  Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Zach Wilson, etc.  all "better" prospects than Jalen Hurts, when Hurts performed better than all of them in college.  

 

I like Hurts! I am just repeating what the scouting reports said about him at the time, about his arm strength and concern reading defenses, and his NFL stats from his first two seasons support that there was a development period he needed. We all know that success at college at QB doesn't always translate to the pros, Mariota had amazing numbers in college but in the NFL he's meh on a good day. But Hurts got better in those areas and stayed the great athlete he already was, and now he's turning into a great NFL QB. They also took care of him (again, the same way the Bills did with Allen) by picking up some WR weapons for him. They are an exciting team to watch.

I do agree that NFL scouts aren't good at judging QB prospects, its a riddle that I am sure every team is trying to figure out. The vast majority flame out, I just assume the mental step from college to pros (not just leadership but learning offenses, learning defenses, reading defenses, etc.) is just something they don't know how to analyze. If I ran an NFL team that desperately needed a QB, I'd just draft one in every round and see who made the cut.

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As i was preparing my Jalen Hurts defense,  I looked at the 2018 Alabama roster and it has to be the most loaded offense of all time. 3 NFL starters at quarterback. 4 NFL starters at running back. 4 NFL starters at receiver. 1 NFL starter at tight end.

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7 hours ago, supremebve said:

Jalen Hurts at Oklahoma, 237-340 69.7% 3851 32 TDs 8 INTs 1298 rushing yards and another 20 TDs. I'm not saying he's Patrick Mahomes, but he's twice the talent that Mac Jones is and no one talks about Mac Jones like they talk about Jalen Hurts.  

It's because he ran a lot, which generally doesn't translate to the NFL. The concerns about his accuracy were legit as his first two NFL seasons showed (52 & 61% completion). 

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There's also the unanswerable questions on any highly regarded QB that flops: how much of it was that he was evaluated incorrectly versus that he had the wrong coaching staff/surrounding talent/support system around him?

Look at Geno Smith! Maybe with a better situation at the start of his career, he'd be in the midst of a "is he a Hall of Famer?" career instead of being the shock of the season.

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29 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

There's also the unanswerable questions on any highly regarded QB that flops: how much of it was that he was evaluated incorrectly versus that he had the wrong coaching staff/surrounding talent/support system around him?

Look at Geno Smith! Maybe with a better situation at the start of his career, he'd be in the midst of a "is he a Hall of Famer?" career instead of being the shock of the season.

Geno getting punched in the face kind of ruined his career. Then when the Giants tried to replace Eli with Geno, people literally got on television and cried about it. Who knows how long Geno has been ready for this comeback. 

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Quarterbacks who run have translated well to the NFL. They just didn’t go down in history as running quarterbacks because of how well they threw the ball as their career went on. Eventually they quit running altogether. Of course some of them either got hurt or turned into dumpster fires in helmets. 

Hurts is quite possibly the smartest runner I’ve ever seen. I don’t just mean sliding. Slide so you don’t get hit says all the coaches...well just as many guys have gotten hurt doing that. Hurts is smart because he never runs straight ahead into people or straight horizontally away from people. No juking either. That’s all great when it works but that’s also how guys get messed up. He always runs to the sidelines at an angle, even if he first takes off straight. What a basic thing I know but it’s true and it’s a difference IMO. 

 

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Mahomes has a case to be the Chiefs best running option but obviously the times that Mahomes runs are much more strategic/opportunistic than the regular RB plays. But Mahomes isn't gonna be known as a running QB because of how much he passes for.

Nice to see that the Colts are wearing retro helmets with the double horse shoe design they used in 1956 when Matt Ryan was young.

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3 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

 

Nice to see that the Colts are wearing retro helmets with the double horse shoe design they used in 1956 when Matt Ryan was young.

Didn't he say something when he was at BC at the time about how the country was due for its first Catholic President?

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