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Dynamite - 11/16/22


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2 hours ago, LF2 said:

 

And what kind of booking “genius” doesn’t find room on an 11 match PPV card for Hangman Page, Orange Cassidy, Miro, Daniel Garcia, Wheeler Yuta, Eddie Kingston, and FTR??? That part I’m being deadly serious about too. 

This is kinda the question. Tony seems to be following the ECW model where they would have their PPVs and then other non PPVs like Big Ass Extreme Bash or what ever in between. Right now we have the big four AEW PPVS and ROH PPV and presumably Forbidden Door going forward. This does allow for longer story arcs with less Attitude era inspired hot shot booking which people seem to like. The down side of that (plus the deep bench) is not everyone gets to be on the PPVs plus they tend to run long. Is the answer to run more frequent shorter PPVS?

The situation reminds me of 97-98 WCW where due to the huge roster people like Rey or Booker T didn't get on  ever big show

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18 minutes ago, zendragon said:

This is kinda the question. Tony seems to be following the ECW model where they would have their PPVs and then other non PPVs like Big Ass Extreme Bash or what ever in between. Right now we have the big four AEW PPVS and ROH PPV and presumably Forbidden Door going forward. This does allow for longer story arcs with less Attitude era inspired hot shot booking which people seem to like. The down side of that (plus the deep bench) is not everyone gets to be on the PPVs plus they tend to run long. Is the answer to run more frequent shorter PPVS?

The situation reminds me of 97-98 WCW where due to the huge roster people like Rey or Booker T didn't get on  ever big show

Just for example, they did that whole thing with FTR being No. 1 tag title contenders, and then they ended up running back Acclaimed vs. Swerve In Our Glory again. Was it really necessary to run Acclaimed vs. Swerve in Our Glory on back to back PPVs with an Arthur Ashe match in-between? Why not give FTR that tag title match? Seems counter-productive and intuitive. It seemed like Swerve In Our Glory were already to break up before this PPV event but they are holding back on it.

Also where's the long-term storytelling with Miro? He disappeared without a trace following All Out.

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14 minutes ago, zendragon said:

This is kinda the question. Tony seems to be following the ECW model where they would have their PPVs and then other non PPVs like Big Ass Extreme Bash or what ever in between.

Paul E. just kept using the old 1993-1996 supercard names after Pay Per Views started to drum up ticket sales for Philly since he didn't plan on holding any more Pay Per Views there after Barely Legal

Shows like Cyberslam 1999 were just glorified TV tapings

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36 minutes ago, zendragon said:

This is kinda the question. Tony seems to be following the ECW model where they would have their PPVs and then other non PPVs like Big Ass Extreme Bash or what ever in between. Right now we have the big four AEW PPVS and ROH PPV and presumably Forbidden Door going forward. This does allow for longer story arcs with less Attitude era inspired hot shot booking which people seem to like. The down side of that (plus the deep bench) is not everyone gets to be on the PPVs plus they tend to run long. Is the answer to run more frequent shorter PPVS?

The situation reminds me of 97-98 WCW where due to the huge roster people like Rey or Booker T didn't get on  ever big show

 

The micro-management / low level detail stuff is a complete irrelevance and has been for 12 months. They have absolutely zero big picture philosophy planning or organisation to this company, and haven't for 12 months since the highlight of the first Chicago/Arthur Ashe shows. This has just been a slow-burn accident waiting to happen. Unless they spring an enormous angle-surprise at this PPV then they have legitimately ran out of steam and are going to taper further. This is all -- all -- on the guy who fancies himself a "creative" CEO (he's just a middle-management data analytics guy with a rich father). With some of the comments coming out of the camp around 4 months ago I had some faith they had seen the error of their ways and would right the ship, but this gets worse and worse. Their title holder is running around forgetting what day the PPV is on while blowing out during his promo on the go home show ffs. The live show attendances are always the first to fall; they are a leading indicator, and the TV viewership will then follow in the same trajectory. 

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8 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

John from Cincinnati was trolling and all the crazies bit.

"Crazies". That's right mate. While they're playing to a couple of thousand silent fans in an arena with 200k more viewers than NXT (who they emptied the roster from, with those left over bottom of the barrel development talent being paid buttons) watching at home barely a year after the buzz around Chicago / Arthur Ashe on a lead in to the PPV, which their world title holder cant remember the date of. Yes, we're the "crazies" here.

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Just now, A_K said:

"Crazies". That's right mate. While they're playing to a couple of thousand silent fans in an arena with 200k more viewers than NXT (who they emptied the roster from) watching at home barely a year after the buzz around Chicago / Arthur Ashe on a lead in to the PPV, which their world title holder cant remember the date of. Yes, we're the "crazies" here.

The quiet crowds are a work, bro.

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11 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

The quiet crowds are a work, bro.

Hey, you're witty bro. Working themselves into losing 40% of their TV viewership with an empty arena all within 6 months and a world champion not cognizant to what day of the week it is. That's some successful work, bro. They could use your wit too, bro. Oh wait - you are of the "ignorance is bliss" head-in-the-sand crowd who didn't see this all coming down the pipe already a year ago did you? My bad.

Edited by A_K
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I’m a wrestling fan and I don’t want to watch WWE anymore.  

Not a high water episode this week.  But considering AEW has put some of the best weekly episodes of tv wrestling I’ve seen in 39 years of watching.  I’m invested.  
 

Jericho continues to impress me this year.  That dude has to be sick of taking that fucking swing.  Good tag match as Sammy was high on crazy pills doing that nutty dive to the outside.

The Acclaimed cheer me up.  But during the Bowens match commercial the announcers went full knucklehead just ribbing Jericho and going off topic.  That shit is going to suck being archived on an eventual streaming service.

I love Mox calling Max a child.  The contrast is volume 10.

Britts promo was good.  She staked her claim.  
 

I’m enjoying Swerve a lot more than I used to.  Much of that is informed by a longer history on tv informing his character.  
 

Wardlow doing a big guy wacky dive into a dude pile is a novelty.  Just don’t do it all the time.  Joe is going to casually side step that shit if he tries it, and it’s going to be glorious.

MJF doing the Rock in September of 98 face run to set up some dastardly heel plot twist is taking too long.  Rocky had a short window to make it count.  But the booking has been reeling since the bullshit with Punk.  This’ll take a bit.  But it’ll get back on track.  
 

Full Gear should be a good to great show.  But I’m looking forward to Rampage more than anything.  

Akiyama baby!

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46 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Just for example, they did that whole thing with FTR being No. 1 tag title contenders, and then they ended up running back Acclaimed vs. Swerve In Our Glory again. Was it really necessary to run Acclaimed vs. Swerve in Our Glory on back to back PPVs with an Arthur Ashe match in-between? Why not give FTR that tag title match? Seems counter-productive and intuitive. It seemed like Swerve In Our Glory were already to break up before this PPV event but they are holding back on it.

Also where's the long-term storytelling with Miro? He disappeared without a trace following All Out.

Miro is splitting time between Hollywood and AEW. Deep bench and all that.

I do think they missed an opportunity with FTR with FTR/Acclaimed v Gunns/SIOG by having the champs go over clean. Have miss communication on the faceside leading to possible the gunns geting a pin on FTR. You do Acclaimed v SIOG rubber match, Gunns v FTR at Final battle (I hope we are getting a match between those two I feel it could be good) and then FTR v Acclaimed. We still could get this but it feels like a missed story beat

39 minutes ago, A_K said:

 

The micro-management / low level detail stuff is a complete irrelevance and has been for 12 months. They have absolutely zero big picture philosophy planning or organisation to this company, and haven't for 12 months since the highlight of the first Chicago/Arthur Ashe shows. This has just been a slow-burn accident waiting to happen. Unless they spring an enormous angle-surprise at this PPV then they have legitimately ran out of steam and are going to taper further. This is all -- all -- on the guy who fancies himself a "creative" CEO (he's just a middle-management data analytics guy with a rich father). With some of the comments coming out of the camp around 4 months ago I had some faith they had seen the error of their ways and would right the ship, but this gets worse and worse. Their title holder is running around forgetting what day the PPV is on while blowing out during his promo on the go home show ffs. The live show attendances are always the first to fall; they are a leading indicator, and the TV viewership will then follow in the same trajectory. 

My big idea. Regal turns on MOX with the Power of The Punch causing MOX to disappear with amnesia. Renee searches for Jon in a series of "Lost in Cincinnati" Vignettes. This all leads to Mox returning with the debut of the Holy Hobo Army.

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35 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

John from Cincinnati was trolling and all the crazies bit.

I knew he was trolling (thus my first post about losing Britt and how it would hurt more than losing MJF). I also wanted to State what I find to be odd about Khans booking. 

I appreciated the responses I got, and I feel silly for forgetting Hangman is recovering from a concussion. I’ve had one recently myself, and I know they can take a long time to recover from.

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29 minutes ago, A_K said:

Hey, you're witty bro. Working themselves into losing 40% of their TV viewership with an empty arena all within 6 months and a world champion not cognizant to what day of the week it is. That's some successful work, bro. They could use your wit too, bro. Oh wait - you are of the "ignorance is bliss" head-in-the-sand crowd who didn't see this all coming down the pipe already a year ago did you? My bad.

I just think its funny, I have no emotional stake in the company AEW. Not everyone that watches wrestling is a zealot.

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3 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

There's no way they can spin this as good.

Tony Khan idiotically spoiling the return of The Elite, who didn't even appear last night. I mean why not? They've got a match on the pay-per-view. Why not actually have them appear to build up the PPV match? What has been the point of this whole Delete the Elite thing? 

Inconsistent booking. A lot of talents have cooled down as of late. 

The Firm/MJF angle has been booked terribly, and so has the Title Eliminator tournament.

Drop interim title bullshit. No one gives a shit about interim champions. Strip Thunder Rosa of the title. Interim titles are f'n stupid and no one cares about them. Interim titles are a joke. This isn't the UFC, and interim titles are a joke there too.

Tony Khan has utterly failed as a leader of this company. He needs to get off Twitter.

Dude I think you need a Snickers, you're hangry or something lol.

I'm with you tho The Firm sucks. The concept of The Firm sucks. Like I'm on board with a paid group of mercenaries to get you the poker chip. But the execution of it was bad. The rationale for it continuing past All Out was bad. Whatever it's morphed into is reallllyyyyyy bad.

Keeping The Elite's actual return for the ppv makes sense to me. You save that first re-appearance pop for a big loud ppv audience. The visual of that makes how that's been handled worth it. But he also wanted to get the word out that they're back. A little playing both sides but this one makes sense to me.

I don't think people are as anti-interim title as you are either. I'm fine with it if it's used with the right intent. This Rosa injury / non injury / weird confusing maybe drama situation ain't it tho. But in theory not forcing a champion to vacate due to injury is fine. It also builds a unique story that WWE doesn't present. It's an alternative. Just doing what WWE does and stripping everyone might be cleaner, but sometimes different is better.

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40 minutes ago, A_K said:

Hey, you're witty bro. Working themselves into losing 40% of their TV viewership with an empty arena all within 6 months and a world champion not cognizant to what day of the week it is. That's some successful work, bro. They could use your wit too, bro. Oh wait - you are of the "ignorance is bliss" head-in-the-sand crowd who didn't see this all coming down the pipe already a year ago did you? My bad.

What’s your favorite wrestling match? 

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29 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Dude I think you need a Snickers, you're hangry or something lol.

I'm with you tho The Firm sucks. The concept of The Firm sucks. Like I'm on board with a paid group of mercenaries to get you the poker chip. But the execution of it was bad. The rationale for it continuing past All Out was bad. Whatever it's morphed into is reallllyyyyyy bad.

Keeping The Elite's actual return for the ppv makes sense to me. You save that first re-appearance pop for a big loud ppv audience. The visual of that makes how that's been handled worth it. But he also wanted to get the word out that they're back. A little playing both sides but this one makes sense to me.

I don't think people are as anti-interim title as you are either. I'm fine with it if it's used with the right intent. This Rosa injury / non injury / weird confusing maybe drama situation ain't it tho. But in theory not forcing a champion to vacate due to injury is fine. It also builds a unique story that WWE doesn't present. It's an alternative. Just doing what WWE does and stripping everyone might be cleaner, but sometimes different is better.

Forcing a champion to vacate due to injury is like the main reason a champion should vacate a title. 

Also, I don't like Snickers. It has nuts in it.

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1 hour ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Paul E. just kept using the old 1993-1996 supercard names after Pay Per Views started to drum up ticket sales for Philly since he didn't plan on holding any more Pay Per Views there after Barely Legal

Shows like Cyberslam 1999 were just glorified TV tapings

Maybe clash of the champions era wcw would have been a better example

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I witnessed the attendance problems yesterday first hand, but as far as the TV number goes, it was still #4 on cable just behind two NBA games and the 12 AM SportsCenter everyone fell asleep to after them. It was only a bad number because the past numbers were good. 

For better or worse, Punk was the last big fish of the American free agents they could realistically sign.  Now hopefully into '23, they just focus on doing what they do best with the people they have, unless someone becomes available that they feel has the capability to grow the brand in a truly meaningful way. 

That said, an MJF/Ethan Page title program with this Firm shit involved is probably not something that's going to do that effectively. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's talent, but every one of those guys except Page and Cass should be on Dark. It's just not happening, and I was glad to see so many of you feel the same way. 

Why these cards are not stacked to the brim during this TV rights year, I still don't get. The EWR shit was fun at Dailys Place when it was largely out of necessity due to the pandemic, but these shows really need to be all hands on deck situations moving forward if they are going to regain that momentum.

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2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Just for example, they did that whole thing with FTR being No. 1 tag title contenders, and then they ended up running back Acclaimed vs. Swerve In Our Glory again. Was it really necessary to run Acclaimed vs. Swerve in Our Glory on back to back PPVs with an Arthur Ashe match in-between? Why not give FTR that tag title match? Seems counter-productive and intuitive. It seemed like Swerve In Our Glory were already to break up before this PPV event but they are holding back on it.

Also where's the long-term storytelling with Miro? He disappeared without a trace following All Out.

When we're talking long-term storytelling with Miro, we're talking LONG term storytelling with Miro. His next chapter hasn't arrived.

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21 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I witnessed the attendance problems yesterday first hand, but as far as the TV number goes, it was still #4 on cable just behind two NBA games and the 12 AM SportsCenter everyone fell asleep to after them. It was only a bad number because the past numbers were good. 

For better or worse, Punk was the last big fish of the American free agents they could realistically sign.  Now hopefully into '23, they just focus on doing what they do best with the people they have, unless someone becomes available that they feel has the capability to grow the brand in a truly meaningful way. 

That said, an MJF/Ethan Page title program with this Firm shit involved is probably not something that's going to do that effectively. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's talent, but every one of those guys except Page and Cass should be on Dark. It's just not happening, and I was glad to see so many of you feel the same way. 

Why these cards are not stacked to the brim during this TV rights year, I still don't get. The EWR shit was fun at Dailys Place when it was largely out of necessity due to the pandemic, but these shows really need to be all hands on deck situations moving forward if they are going to regain that momentum.

I think the Gunns are TV time worthy but the Firm is a real stepback for them with how it played out. They had the most upside as Stoke was assembling his men.

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1 hour ago, porksweats said:

I think the Gunns are TV time worthy but the Firm is a real stepback for them with how it played out. They had the most upside as Stoke was assembling his men.

I'll give you that, I can't disagree. They're probably the best of the bunch, and they've got ready made long-term angle prospects as long as Billy is w The Acclaimed. So maybe not quite all of them. 

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All these hot takes and no one mentioned that, you know, forgetting to book an actual main event match probably didn't help.

In less hot take-ish news, FTR haven't had an AEW ppv tag match since last year's Full Gear. Yeah they don't run a lot of ppvs but that's still 4 straight where the supposed best tag team in the world can't get a ppv match to show that off. Based on the ROH shows it'd probably be pretty good, maybe let them do that on your biggest stage at least once a year.

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3 minutes ago, username said:

All these hot takes and no one mentioned that, you know, forgetting to book an actual main event match probably didn't help.

Yeah, good call on that. That was a BK move if there ever was one, especially considering the preceding ladies match was not what I would call especially well received at all. In retrospect, this angle was simply not hot enough to warrant that slot, and while I understand the logic in thinking that closing with arguably your two best talkers could create something special, it was just a whiff.

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I quite enjoyed the Anna Jay match and think it's almost amazing how many poses/facial expressions/reactions she fits into a match. It's like 3-4 between moves. Tremendous stuff.

and I know this will sound crazy

and I know we joke about it

BUT

I kind of set that up to see if Bunny might actually draw in that spot, as she seemed to in the past, but when she got sick, he just didn't mess with the format because it was too late in the game.

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Full Gear feels ice cold, this is the first time I haven’t been excited for an AEW PPV. Why’d AEW have to wait until they lost all the feeling to come to San Francisco?

The main event angle was really rough. I do agree though that the reasons for all this really comes down to the CM Punk stuff. 

 

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