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Full Gear IV - 11/19/2022


Dolfan in NYC
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3 hours ago, LF2 said:

You and I both share the same thought about the lack of compelling programs for MJF as champion (at the moment). Bryan clearly doesn’t want the belt so if they feud it’s obvious Max goes over, Mox is overdue for time off, and I don’t see Claudio or Wheeler Yuta being a big money making feud. Jericho has the ROH belt, and I can’t see them turning him face just to fight Max again either. Kenny’s tied up for the next two months at minimum. Orange Cassidy has a belt so he’s out too. I’d be happy with an Eddie Kingston push, but I’m not sure that’s in the cards either. Both Adams being out at the moment kills two of their other possible options. 

So basically it looks like they might have to push Darby into that spot (as the next challenger), and based on their previous PPV match I’d be in favor of that. 

I still think they can go with Swerve for a month or so here.

Have Regal's endorsement of MJF as a true villain go to his head and call out Sneaky Swerve for not being sneaky enough and hiding behind Keith Lee. Have a show end with Swerve and the pliars trying to cut off the Dynamite Diamond Ring finger.

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I have to agree with a lot my arch-nemesis Matt D. said. Some hits, a lot of misses, and a lot of "Uhm..."

1) Jamie Hayter rules. She got over because she rules at professional wrestling. She's a great no-nonsense bad-ass who is stiff as anything and has no time for anything but beating up other people in the ring. I think she should have just beaten Toni Storm without any of the shenanigans at ringside. I say that as a huge fan of Britt. The run-in's looked fantastic ("NOOOOOO!") to Britt coming in with the hoodie. And it didn't matter at all because the crowd was going to pop for Jamie to win no matter what. But making her win seem like this moment of career triumph and because of taken shortcuts really runs counter to the story they just told. 

1A) The announcing in this match trying to put over their relationship since they lived together during quarantine days was insanity. Like some of the greatest unintentional comedy I've heard in a long time. I only wish Excalibur started talking about how they spent their stimulus checks or if they could get PPP money as independent contractors.

2) The main event was really weird. It was a good match. But Mox leaning into the heel stuff because the crowd was rooting for MJF, only for MJF to win after Regal turned is exactly why Cena never wrestled heel despite getting booed out of the arena. It just makes the body of the match (MJF as an underdog against a psychopath) mean nothing when the payoff is heel shenanigans from villains. Mox needed to stay as the protagonist. MJF needed to keep his heel shtick. Let the fans cheer how they are going to cheer. Just tell the story you have been telling to completion. 

3) The 4-way was a great match. But where were Yuta and Garcia? Yuta with Cesaro and Garcia with Sammy. Unless there was an injury or something, that was a gigantic story from the past few months. Yuta/Garcia even main evented a Dynamite in a banger. AEW did a lot of really good work to get both of those guys over. Pay it off. 

4) Why did Swerve give Keith Lee a device to torture an opponent after they had been squabbling over the need for cheating in the build-up to the match and literally in the match itself? The more accurate story would have been Lee preventing Swerve from using those tactics, which leads to Swerve's downfall. 

It really sucks because there's so much good in-ring work on these shows. But TK's a disorganized mess and needs an editor. 

 

 

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Meltzer:

Quote

Some notes from last night's Full Gear show:

The main event finish with William Regal handing MJF Brass Knux was Tony Khan's idea and you can look back at the last several weeks of the build-up and see the signs leading to it. It appears from the press conference that MJF and Regal will be a heel champion pairing not unlike Kenny Omega and Don Callis.

There was another finish brought up by several of the most influential wrestlers. We don't know what it was although I presume MJF winning was not the question and it was just a different way to get there. It was an alternative way of getting there. Khan was strong on his finish that the direction this goes.

Regarding the PPV number, Khan noted to us regarding his comments last night that it was based on what they have now. It looks to be similar to All Out, which I'd consider to be a success if it ends up in that realm without C.M. Punk. All Out was 140,000 buys. It was below last year's Full Gear, which did 155,000 buys. Most did not expect this year's show to have a shot at beating last year's numbers. The two other Full Gear shows were about 90,000 and 100.000 buys.

The numbers he had last night were very preliminary and based a lot on advance order numbers, but the company would have a better idea today or tomorrow on streaming numbers. Television PPV numbers don't come in for 90 days but we usually get very strong estimates later in the week. With Thanksgiving that could be delayed a little.

The point is the number is a very early estimate and could vary significantly but right now the best info is a positive.

The show was announced on the air as a sellout and standing room only. It was actually a near sellout, about 600 shy of what would have been a full sellout for the PPV set up at the Prudential Center. As noted, the show just topped $1 million, hitting that mark the morning of the show and ending at $1,040,000.

WWE tops this on every PPV show as well these days, and greatly topped it for shows like Clash at the Castle and WrestleMania that topped $8 million. But historically, aside from the five AEW seven figure gates this year, there has only been one other non-WWE $1 million gate in U.S. pro wrestling history. That was the 2019 MSG show that New Japan and ROH put on,.

Adjusting for inflation there are others, including a few WCW shows during the glory period of that company in 1998 and January 1999, and a few of the most historic matches in the early days of the business.

Just for confirmation since there have been a number of questions about it, the trios titles are not up every match in the best-of seven series. It's been confirmed that Death Triangle will be champions until or unless The Young Bucks & Kenny Omega win a fourth match from them. A number of people thought it would be up in all seven matches based on consistency, in the sense last night's match was for the title and was the first match of the later announced best-of-seven.

Jim Ross only doing the first half of the show was a decision made before the show. Tony Khan decided to use Ross for the first half and Tony Schiavone for the second half.

The song "Wayward Sun" by Kansas that the Elite used last night will be their trios entrance music. If won't be used if they are in regular tags or singles matches.

The Young Bucks have wanted to use the song for a long time as they and their father were big fans of that song and that style of music. The thoughts by people that it had to do with the situation of the past two months was something that they were aware of but the decision to use that song preceded that and in actuality has nothing to do with it.

The Young Bucks actually used that song as their entrance music when they did their own backyard wrestling as teenagers.

 

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9 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I still think they can go with Swerve for a month or so here.

Have Regal's endorsement of MJF as a true villain go to his head and call out Sneaky Swerve for not being sneaky enough and hiding behind Keith Lee. Have a show end with Swerve and the pliars trying to cut off the Dynamite Diamond Ring finger.

That’s another issue I have with recent booking. How many speciality weapons do we need?

JJ: Guitar

Darby: Skateboard

Swerve: Pliars

Sting: Baseball Bat

Pac: Ring Bell Hammer 

MJF: Dynamite Diamond 

Regal: Brass Knux

Danhausen: Jar of Teeth

Jericho: Baseball Bat

I’m sure there might be a few more I’m forgetting at the moment too. 

Edited by LF2
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Just now, LF2 said:

That’s another issue I have with recent booking. How many speciality weapons do we need?

JJ: Guitar

Darby: Skateboard

Swerve: Pliars

Sting: Baseball Bat

Pac: Ring Bell

MJF: Dynamite Diamond 

Regal: Brass Knux

Danhausen: Jar of Teeth

Jericho: Baseball Bat

I’m sure there might be a few more I’m forgetting at the moment too. 

Penta's spam taunt.

😉.

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So now that Danhausen has brought back his trademark jar of teeth I’d like to see a brief backstage segment with him and Dr. Baker. That way we can find out who’s supplying him with said teeth. 

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4 minutes ago, LF2 said:

So now that Danhausen has brought back his trademark jar of teeth I’d like to see a brief backstage segment with him and Dr. Baker. That way we can find out who’s supplying him with said teeth. 

They had them interact on that, but I'm not 100% sure when. I think it was during the "... of the year" awards presentation last year.

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5 minutes ago, Matt D said:

They had them interact on that, but I'm not 100% sure when. I think it was during the "... of the year" awards presentation last year.

Darn. I’ll have to check YouTube for that. Thank you for letting me know. 

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6 minutes ago, LF2 said:

Darn. I’ll have to check YouTube for that. Thank you for letting me know. 

I scanned through it quickly and couldn't find it in there quickly (though they do interact), so it must have been some other thing from around that time. Your guess is as good as mine, but there was some bit about him asking about it and her saying that they had to talk off camera.

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33 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

I have to agree with a lot my arch-nemesis Matt D. said. Some hits, a lot of misses, and a lot of "Uhm..."

1) Jamie Hayter rules. She got over because she rules at professional wrestling. She's a great no-nonsense bad-ass who is stiff as anything and has no time for anything but beating up other people in the ring. I think she should have just beaten Toni Storm without any of the shenanigans at ringside. I say that as a huge fan of Britt. The run-in's looked fantastic ("NOOOOOO!") to Britt coming in with the hoodie. And it didn't matter at all because the crowd was going to pop for Jamie to win no matter what. But making her win seem like this moment of career triumph and because of taken shortcuts really runs counter to the story they just told.

But now Baker can say Hayter only won because of her, leading to the break-up and feud. People say there's no long-term storytelling, then they blank on stuff like this.

Quote

1A) The announcing in this match trying to put over their relationship since they lived together during quarantine days was insanity. Like some of the greatest unintentional comedy I've heard in a long time. I only wish Excalibur started talking about how they spent their stimulus checks or if they could get PPP money as independent contractors.

Honestly, just about every kind of attempted backstory to a match is cringey to me. Saying they were roommates and Hayter ghosted Toni is enough.

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41 minutes ago, LF2 said:

That’s another issue I have with recent booking. How many speciality weapons do we need?

Sting: Baseball Bat

Jericho: Baseball Bat

I’m sure there might be a few more I’m forgetting at the moment too. 

Ok see...

If they wanted to lean into the memes and have fun with this, Jericho vs Sting: Baseball bat on a Pole match, is a fucking great TV main event match. If it then leads to a PPV match between Sammy and Darby to determine a #1 contender to MJF then that's great story telling.
 

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20 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I scanned through it quickly and couldn't find it in there quickly (though they do interact), so it must have been some other thing from around that time. Your guess is as good as mine, but there was some bit about him asking about it and her saying that they had to talk off camera.

It was on Britt’s episode of Hey! EW with RJ City I’m pretty sure.

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53 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

Ok see...

If they wanted to lean into the memes and have fun with this, Jericho vs Sting: Baseball bat on a Pole match, is a fucking great TV main event match. If it then leads to a PPV match between Sammy and Darby to determine a #1 contender to MJF then that's great story telling.
 

Not to mention Sting vs Jericho would probably do a good number on TV too. 

Edited by LF2
Typo
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1 hour ago, Greggulator said:

I have to agree with a lot my arch-nemesis Matt D. said. Some hits, a lot of misses, and a lot of "Uhm..."

1) Jamie Hayter rules. She got over because she rules at professional wrestling. She's a great no-nonsense bad-ass who is stiff as anything and has no time for anything but beating up other people in the ring. I think she should have just beaten Toni Storm without any of the shenanigans at ringside. I say that as a huge fan of Britt. The run-in's looked fantastic ("NOOOOOO!") to Britt coming in with the hoodie. And it didn't matter at all because the crowd was going to pop for Jamie to win no matter what. But making her win seem like this moment of career triumph and because of taken shortcuts really runs counter to the story they just told. 

1A) The announcing in this match trying to put over their relationship since they lived together during quarantine days was insanity. Like some of the greatest unintentional comedy I've heard in a long time. I only wish Excalibur started talking about how they spent their stimulus checks or if they could get PPP money as independent contractors.

2) The main event was really weird. It was a good match. But Mox leaning into the heel stuff because the crowd was rooting for MJF, only for MJF to win after Regal turned is exactly why Cena never wrestled heel despite getting booed out of the arena. It just makes the body of the match (MJF as an underdog against a psychopath) mean nothing when the payoff is heel shenanigans from villains. Mox needed to stay as the protagonist. MJF needed to keep his heel shtick. Let the fans cheer how they are going to cheer. Just tell the story you have been telling to completion. 

3) The 4-way was a great match. But where were Yuta and Garcia? Yuta with Cesaro and Garcia with Sammy. Unless there was an injury or something, that was a gigantic story from the past few months. Yuta/Garcia even main evented a Dynamite in a banger. AEW did a lot of really good work to get both of those guys over. Pay it off. 

4) Why did Swerve give Keith Lee a device to torture an opponent after they had been squabbling over the need for cheating in the build-up to the match and literally in the match itself? The more accurate story would have been Lee preventing Swerve from using those tactics, which leads to Swerve's downfall. 

It really sucks because there's so much good in-ring work on these shows. But TK's a disorganized mess and needs an editor. 

 

 

This is the biggest reason / problem I have with MJF winning the title at Full Gear. The fans wanted to cheer MJF - so give them a reason to cheer him. Have him lose against Moxley and want a rematch on Dynamite. Regal tells him that Moxley is on vacation and will defend the title when he feels like it. Make Regal/Moxley the true heels everyone wants them to be - Moxley and Regal fought and it would be a similar relationship to Roman Reigns and Paul Heyman. Have MJF be a babyface with an edge and fight whatever obstacles Moxley/Regal throw at him to lead up to the rematch for the title (have him face former members of The Firm, have him face Claudio / Danielson / Yuta). Maybe Yuta, Claudio or Danielson get cold feet about fighting MJF and Moxley/Regal kick them out of the Combat Club. So MJF has a de facto partner in all of this while people wonder if he's really a 'good guy' despite getting screwed over.

Instead, no we get MJF winning the World title because he had incredible promos against Jon Moxley and William Regal, not on the basis of his actual matches. TK books wrestling like he's in college with a final paper that he started on the night before.

Edited by Andrew POE!
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I don’t think we should underestimate how much more nihilistic and amoral people are on average than in 2011, especially in my neck of the woods. Max was a hero last night, a slimy cheating hero. 

As Bob Dylan sang, “In Jersey everything's legal as long as you don’t get caught.” 

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4 hours ago, LF2 said:

You also have something in common with Ronda Rousey then. 😭 I don’t get why female wrestlers struggle to get gear that fits properly much more often than their male counterparts. I (thankfully) don’t ever see MJF stopping mid match to adjust his shorts.

I remember Bully Ray adjusting his pants to the point where it became a meme. I wanted "Hitching up the britches" to become his version of lawler dropping the strap

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1 hour ago, Greggulator said:

Mox needed to stay as the protagonist. MJF needed to keep his heel shtick. Let the fans cheer how they are going to cheer. Just tell the story you have been telling to completion.

 

16 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

They had one shot to make Max the hometown hero in New Jersey like Punk is Chicago

They blew it

captainamerica-wintersolider.gif

Getting a lot of use, that one is.

These are the contradictions that happen when people present their opinions/preferences as facts. 😞

Edited by Dog
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I don't think people are cheering MJF because he was doing heel stuff. Nor Jamie Hayter

Fenix and Swerve both got booed for it earlier in the night.

People were cheering for them because they are AEW. It was a huge reinforcement and message to Tony that we watch AEW to see AEW people and that, as fun as the debuts and signings can be, we want fresh faces on top for a while.

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3 minutes ago, zendragon said:

I remember Bully Ray adjusting his pants to the point where it became a meme. I wanted "Hitching up the britches" to become his version of lawler dropping the strap

The OSW Review guys used to run a count on how many times he'd adjust his gear during their TNA PPV Reviews.

I think they carried it over to one of Ronda's matches as well.

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