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AEW - NOVEMBER 2022


The Natural
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9 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

Thank you John

That's something I was wondering about because Punk recently had that mma commentary gig where he pokes fun at not belonging in any locker rooms and making light of things, from some online perspectives at least

 

And when the Bucks "gave a receipt" there's some backlash and there's even hot takes talking about-

 

"Well this just proves Punk right when he said he was working with children" 

 

- related to the Bucks and their BTE video yesterday 

 

So my curiosity, in reading various takes via various sites and blogs was-

 

Ok Punk didn't take a dig at anyone but he did make light, and folks were okay with him joking around (maybe since he didn't take any digs? Dunno)

 

But the Bucks in their BTE clip add that muting the music to let the crowds chant seep in, and folks are going tribal taking up for Punk

 

Is my read of the situation 

But then this guy posts about "if it's all a work" and I'm throwing my hands up in the air thinking we'd collectively moved past that months ago?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Probably because Omega and the Bucks have executive vice president titles, and Punk is/was just another member of the roster (and gave them AEW’s biggest buy rate ever but anyway…)

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12 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I think Swerve has really helped AEW with that considerably. I believe he has actually really networked with people in hip-hop as his has made a serious attempt to pursue his own ventures as an artist outside of wrestling. 

WWE has really missed the boat with tapping in with that market because most mainstream artists they work with are past their social relevancy or when they get someone that is. They are put in a role that the non wrestling fan can't take seriously. You got people like Wale and to a lesser extent Peter Rosenberg try to bridge that gap by having guts on his platform.

AEW does a much better job featuring people like Ross and Trina and people like that who are actual wrestling fans. It was cool seeing Fabolous come out with Swerve and Keith Lee to the ring. Outside of thar one time with Snoop AEW doesn't have those forced "SportsCenter" "Extra" type moments WWE likes to have to get some outside attention.

I guess Post Malone is for a different audience but I know he's a big deal in some circles and he actually got in the ring (and did alright for himself).

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35 minutes ago, JLowe said:

Penta being shown on Monday Night Football could have been big, except there was no reference by the announcers or the chryon to being an AEW wrestler.

I am not a football person, but I saw the clip, and it was Joe Buck announcing. Does that make MNF a Fox property now? If so, is that a mandate from the network to not mention by name a program that is direct competition to their Friday night wrestling show?

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54 minutes ago, grilledcheese said:

I am not a football person, but I saw the clip, and it was Joe Buck announcing. Does that make MNF a Fox property now? If so, is that a mandate from the network to not mention by name a program that is direct competition to their Friday night wrestling show?

I doubt it. I thought it was weirder that Buck didn't explain the backstory between the two (Penta and Kittle), but it seems like they told Buck to at least mention it and then move on cause the ball was about to be in play.

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7 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

It could have been worse. You used to have Turner announcers make WWF references, even if it was a WCW wrestler, and that’s the same company. 

At this point though, WWE is the brand name for pro wrestling and that's going to be their reference point most of the time. Keep in mind though, unless it's a Greg Olsen or Robert Griffin III or even Tony Romo, we're talking about usually people who are way over 40. I doubt they can name 5 active wrestlers from ANY company. 

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4 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Except for all the attitude era guys that are still around p, in one way or another. 😀

Oh yeah, I was gonna say that as well but felt that I already made my point.

I mean the other day watching Undisputed, Shannon Sharpe dropped a Randy Orton reference. However, on the same episode or probably the episode the next day, he dropped a Baron von Raschke claw reference. Then, I remember Shannon is in the his mid 50s now and would have saw Baron in Georgia Championship Wrestling as grew up in Savannah. So it may just be happenstance he mentioned Orton. 

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I got ringside for dynamite at the cow palace. Not even gonna bother with rampage. I’ll be wearing the Utami x Tana tshirt. 
 

For the people who will be going to the cow palace for the first time, I hope they haven’t yet gotten a taste of futuristic luxuries such as “air conditioning” and “food other than popcorn and nachos” because those things certainly don’t exist there. For tv audiences, I hope they like the way the inside of an 81 year old barn looks. 

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2 hours ago, grilledcheese said:

I am not a football person, but I saw the clip, and it was Joe Buck announcing. Does that make MNF a Fox property now? If so, is that a mandate from the network to not mention by name a program that is direct competition to their Friday night wrestling show?

MNF is on ESPN. Aikman left Fox after last season, and insisted they hire his insufferable buddy to do commentary with him. So of course ESPN hired Buck. 

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It's a mark against the modern pro wrestling fan that so many of them feel the need to take sides. Everyone is so buddy-buddy now, and the second there's some bad blood that breaks up all the chummy Uno games backstage, we can't just enjoy the dramatics.

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22 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

As much as I am not a fan of stuff like The Breakfast Club and The Shade Room and a lot of the weird narratives being pushed on those platforms (with the former, recently, the idea black people need to get into crypto ain't really looking so hot right now), I can admit that is a bigger plus for a Jade Cargill than what I probably would have expected. 

I mean this whole thing with Bow Wow is helping his career more than her's really. Hell, in a few years, Bow Wow probably won't even be the most famous person in his immediate family. His daughter Shai, from a previous relationship with the lovely Joie Chavis, is already kinda a TikTok/social media star already. She is on the verge of easily eclipsing his celebrity. So he needs this more than Jade to stay relevant.

However, I do like and hope that AEW keeps a more nuanced approach. As much I love it today for the nostalgia factor, the HBO approach with KO Nation where we will have hip hop performances between B and C level fights and move boxing from late night to the middle of the afternoon didn't work. When 50 Cent and Jay Z did it with SMS Boxing and Roc Boxing respectively, it didn't work at all. Triller is still trying to jam rap in everyone's face. Still ain't working. You have to keep being subtle and also remember the actual content is still king.

All you need really is the rub from being around it.

Something that's been a real pleasant surprise for me over the last few years is finding out how much love there still is for the old Def Jam wrestling games. My girlfriend and her friends are all Black/POC and based on some of my conversations with them, I think there's definitely an untapped market for rap 'n' wrestling - but I agree, great care needs to be taken with it, otherwise its either at best A) the audience laughing at washed up/irrelevant musicians, or at worst, B) the audience taking it as pandering and becoming deeply offended by it

20 hours ago, A_K said:

I'm a multi-millionaire net-short in the market since January 2022, but you do you my friend. We will re-visit that post before the end of this year. I won't call you vulgar for that insult, as your naivety is cute.

Anyway, back to the wrestling!

I think the obvious answer here is that you, me, and @Krone Meltzer need to start a promotion together. I hear the NWA is up for grabs

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

Does anyone really need food other than popcorn and nachos at a wrestling show?

I mean, I already entered nachos into myfitnesspal for tonight.

I'd argue hot dogs but I don't want to take away someone's payday

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2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Does anyone really need food other than popcorn and nachos at a wrestling show?

I mean, I already entered nachos into myfitnesspal for tonight.

Depends on the length of the show, after a certain point Im gonna want real food

 

55 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Something that's been a real pleasant surprise for me over the last few years is finding out how much love there still is for the old Def Jam wrestling games. My girlfriend and her friends are all Black/POC and based on some of my conversations with them, I think there's definitely an untapped market for rap 'n' wrestling - but I agree, great care needs to be taken with it, otherwise its either at best A) the audience laughing at washed up/irrelevant musicians, or at worst, B) the audience taking it as pandering and becoming deeply offended by it

I was thinking about this. For a long time Rap/Black culture was treated very disrespectfully. Either White guys doing gimmicks for laughs (Akeem doing afrecentic, Too Cool being white Bboys, PN News being a bad rapper) or Vince having Slick and Flash Funk being kinda pimps beofre going whole hog with The godfather. Crime Time had young african american men doing a hip hop inspired gimmick but still had problematic stealing bit. Now you have Swerve, Acclaimed, Street Profits, and Private Party doing Hip Hop themed gimmicks that feels authentic similar to how Brody King and Malaki Black feel authentic to Hardcore/Metal as opposed to Van Hammer

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6 hours ago, JLowe said:

Penta being shown on Monday Night Football could have been big, except there was no reference by the announcers or the chryon to being an AEW wrestler.

I did hear Pentagon get named dropped on Sportscenter or NFL Network in the Highlights after the game. I know Adam Rank on NFL Fantasy Live mentioned it but he was wearing a Trish Stratus shirt. 

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3 hours ago, zendragon said:

Depends on the length of the show, after a certain point Im gonna want real food

 

I was thinking about this. For a long time Rap/Black culture was treated very disrespectfully. Either White guys doing gimmicks for laughs (Akeem doing afrecentic, Too Cool being white Bboys, PN News being a bad rapper) or Vince having Slick and Flash Funk being kinda pimps beofre going whole hog with The godfather. Crime Time had young african american men doing a hip hop inspired gimmick but still had problematic stealing bit. Now you have Swerve, Acclaimed, Street Profits, and Private Party doing Hip Hop themed gimmicks that feels authentic similar to how Brody King and Malaki Black feel authentic to Hardcore/Metal as opposed to Van Hammer

I think part of the reason for the decline in popularity in the early 90s (and probably partly today) is the lack of complex storytelling. By that I mean growing your characters beyond certain typical arcs or certain traits. Beyond the examples you laid out, you had Men on a Mission when they came in from USWA. I mean they were positive, but besides Oscar's rapping and Mabel being a semi skilled big man, they didn't really stand out in terms of being actual characters. Ditching Oscar and then turning them heel in early 95 seemed like a "yeah this didn't work so let's do a complete 180" do over. That's why Harlem Heat resonated with me more as as a black teenager. They won't necessarily all positive, but WCW at least decided to let them be more authentic and showcase them more. It seemed like they were on damn near every Nitro, which is amazing considering that roster blew up in size by the time they expanded to two hours in May 1996. Now billing them from Harlem even though they clearly were from the South was still weird, but whatever. I mean Undertaker in 1997 with some slight changes to his character was still from Death Valley.

That being said, when most of the stories were or are being written by mostly white people, it does suck that there won't be much thinking outside of the box and there is likely a limited understanding outside of certain racial connotations. Using the Mid-South examples, Watts can find a JYD and he can use the term "going ghetto on someone", but when it comes to finding replacements, he went with the aforementioned crew of George Wells, Brickhouse, the Snowman, Butch, and some others. However, he clearly didn't understand that Dog and Butch Reed in their program did all the heavy lifting. There was a certain type of chemistry there you just cannot recreate no matter how many black wrestlers you find. I think the two closest they came to recreating a similar spark was Ron Simmons and Ahmed Johnson years later in WWF, but of course, Ahmed had his various issues in the ring and out of the ring. Even still, that worked on a certain level due to the dynamic and less on the creative end.

One of the examples I sometimes use is kinda the heyday of HBO boxing, the creation of Boxing After Dark in 1996 which was mostly a platform for lesser known champions and contenders, and the great rivalry between Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales. HBO BAD was created mostly for Barrera and Morales, and they were showcased on that show rather than the main show HBO World Championship Boxing. However, being in the same division of super bantamweight (122 lbs), they were clearly on a collision course at some point. By the time it was time to fight in 2000, HBO had spent the better of 3 to 4 years weaving the story together that most of Morales' fanbase believed Barrera is a spoiled rich kid from Mexico City who is not on the level of a Erik Morales. Morales, who grew up in economically depressed Tijuana and literally was raised in a boxing gym by his father, played into that which made Barrera's fanbase believe that Morales was overrated and was record padding (Morales went into the first fight undefeated whereas Barrera in the leadup suffered two weird losses to Junior Jones, who Morales took apart). If this was pro wrestling, this would just be billed as two little Mexican guys throwing hands. For Mexican and Mexican-American fans, it was way more than that. Through that storytelling, HBO made that into a legendary rivalry stemming from the B show when five years earlier before their first fight they were virtually nobodies. I mean Barrera fought for Forum Boxing at the Great Western Forum in front of some celebs, but that was only on local TV in LA. Morales fought a few times on USA for like Tuesday Night Fights. The average boxing fan only buying Mike Tyson fights wouldn't be able to pick them out of a lineup though. However, HBO plucked these guys out of obscurity because they realized there was a real story there that you couldn't just create anywhere else. 

When you have several wrestlers from various backgrounds and cultures, in order to pay it off, you have to realize where you can go and how you can distinguish it from the normal wrestling fodder.

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