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November 2022 Wrestling Discussion

Dolfan in NYC

By Dolfan in NYC
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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Casey

Casey

Posted
Posted

Randomly paired tournament:

  • Kurt Angle (2007 TNA) vs Keiji Mutoh (2001 All/New Japan)
  • Vader (2000 NOAH) vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin (1999 WWF)
  • Rob Van Dam (1999 ECW) vs Shawn Michaels (1996 WWF)
  • Toshiaki Kawada (1992 All Japan) vs Mike Awesome (1999 ECW/All Japan)

Whatever women's tournament I'd fantasy book with a time machine, Bull Nakano would win it. 2014/2015 Bayley versus 1991/1992 Nakano would be really fun.

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

Posted
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2 hours ago, Casey said:

Randomly paired tournament:

  • Kurt Angle (2007 TNA) vs Keiji Mutoh (2001 All/New Japan)
  • Vader (2000 NOAH) vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin (1999 WWF)
  • Rob Van Dam (1999 ECW) vs Shawn Michaels (1996 WWF)
  • Toshiaki Kawada (1992 All Japan) vs Mike Awesome (1999 ECW/All Japan)

Whatever women's tournament I'd fantasy book with a time machine, Bull Nakano would win it. 2014/2015 Bayley versus 1991/1992 Nakano would be really fun.

It sucks that Prichard and I believe JR as well push the notion that Vader was just done physically when he got to them in 1996. The guy had a whole run when he left WWF. Moreover, the booking for him in WWF was kinda mediocre up until they put him over Shawn right before Summerslam. He was just another hill for Shawn to climb over as WWF champion. Add in he was coming off shoulder surgery and the fact none of the top WWF guys were gonna take the shellacking that Flair, Cactus, and Sting took in WCW to get him over as a true monster.

And oh, any women's tournament I book would have 2004-2006 Yoshiko Tamura going over everybody. With on her game Utami Hayashishita, post comeback Arisa Nakajima, mid 80s Jaguar Yokota, mid 80s Lioness Asuka, and prime Mariko Yoshida in the honorable mentions category, that is the rawest and most brutal young lady I ever seen enter the squared circle. Everyone else is just fighting to finish as 1st runner up.

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Octopus

Octopus

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The Octopus Cup

95 Lord Steven Regal vs 93 Genichiro Tenryu

05 Lo Ki vs 89 Ricky Steamboat

01 El Satanico vs 82 Nick Bockwinkel 

19 Daisuke Sekimoto vs 04 Kenta Kobashi 

——-

Tenryu goes over Regal in a hard fought battle.

Low Ki kicks Steamboat a lot but Steamboat comes back from a pounding.

Bockwinkel get tied up by older face Satanico, but due to dirty tactics Bockwinkel wins.

Kobashi and Sekimoto do long grapples and deviating chops. Kobashi goes over.

————

Steamboat vs Tenryu

Bockwinkel be Kobashi

———-

Uh oh! After the Kobashi win, Heenan makes a surprise entrance as Bockwinkel’s manager. Declares he pulled strings and corrupted the Octopus into announcing their match right away. No dancing girls like we were promised, only the Heels get that. Bockwinkel comes out and picks a part a tired beaten old Kobashi. But he fights back and chops the hell out of a once cocky Bockwinkel. Heenan distracts the ref and Bockwinkel kicks Kenta in the balls. Bock wins.

Tenryu vs Steamboat is a thing of beauty. The audience cries in it’s glory. Steamboat wins from underneath. 

———

Steamboat vs Bockwinkel

———

Scholars will write about this match. Two possible outcomes based on if this is the start of a promotion or just a yearly tournament:

Yearly tournament? Steamboat wins clean and punches Heenan for trying to cheat.

Start of a Promotion? Heenan calls out the Holy Demon Amy (Kawada & Taue) to beat up Stwamboat. RoadWarriors clear them out. Heenan is ejected! Steamboat is going to win! But wait, is that? Could it be? Nah, couldn’t? But it’s…it is…could it? A young Rocky Maivia interferes! Bockwinkel wins. Rocky changes his name to The Bock after his new mentor. The team of Nick Bockwinkel, The Bock, Bockiaki Kawada, & Bockira Taue managed by Bocky Heenan are named The Four Bockmen and for months they ravage through the Octopus Wrestling Alliance until they are challenged in a War Games. 

The Four Bockmen vs (Ricky Steamboat, Tugboat, A-Train, Hot Rod Rowdy Piper, and Northrop F-5 Brock Lesnar) Plane, Train, Automobile, and MOTHER FUCKING BOATS!!!

 

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Casey

Casey

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1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

It sucks that Prichard and I believe JR as well push the notion that Vader was just done physically when he got to them in 1996. The guy had a whole run when he left WWF. Moreover, the booking for him in WWF was kinda mediocre up until they put him over Shawn right before Summerslam. He was just another hill for Shawn to climb over as WWF champion. Add in he was coming off shoulder surgery and the fact none of the top WWF guys were gonna take the shellacking that Flair, Cactus, and Sting took in WCW to get him over as a true monster.

And oh, any women's tournament I book would have 2004-2006 Yoshiko Tamura going over everybody. With on her game Utami Hayashishita, post comeback Arisa Nakajima, mid 80s Jaguar Yokota, mid 80s Lioness Asuka, and prime Mariko Yoshida in the honorable mentions category, that is the rawest and most brutal young lady I ever seen enter the squared circle. Everyone else is just fighting to finish as 1st runner up.

I've mentioned this in regards to Jeff Jarrett, but having rewatched post-Screwjob 1997 WWF up until 2000 currently with a buddy of mine... Vader is a complete afterthought. End of '97/1998 he's in a weird feud with Goldust & Luna, then used to put over the new giant monster pick in Kane, loses to everyone on WWF's syndicated shows. We laughed at Vader calling himself a piece of shit in an interview, but it's really kind of sad. Then, what, months later, he's back in All Japan and it's like a totally different guy. His run from like late 98 to maybe 02 or so is really good. Wasn't really a big fan of the team with 2 Cold Scorpio, but it's fun (and weird) seeing Scorpio wrestle the likes of Akiyama and Misawa, though.

I really need to step up my 80s-mid 00s joshi watching. I'm pretty exclusively just Nakano/Kong/Hokuto/Toyota matches, and some current Stardom/TJPW with a real small sampling of Sendai Girls mixed in. Not the same conversation, but I'm still trying to find Billie Starkz vs Yuka Sakazaki somewhere.

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Matt D

Matt D

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Steamboat vs Bockwinkel

Here's something you probably didn't know:

There were a series of Bockwinkel vs Steamboat matches in JCP in 79. Most were for the AWA title but sometimes Steamboat defended the TV title and it ended in a title vs title match that was, of course, a count out. We don't even have a glimmer of these obviously.

791019_hampton.jpg

Edited by Matt D
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SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

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6 hours ago, Octopus said:

“Yes, I believe in the right to bare arms”

Considering his long-standing wrestling partnership with Terrible Ted, I wonder if Stu Hart believed in the right to arm bears. 

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

Posted
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2 hours ago, Casey said:

I've mentioned this in regards to Jeff Jarrett, but having rewatched post-Screwjob 1997 WWF up until 2000 currently with a buddy of mine... Vader is a complete afterthought. End of '97/1998 he's in a weird feud with Goldust & Luna, then used to put over the new giant monster pick in Kane, loses to everyone on WWF's syndicated shows. We laughed at Vader calling himself a piece of shit in an interview, but it's really kind of sad. Then, what, months later, he's back in All Japan and it's like a totally different guy. His run from like late 98 to maybe 02 or so is really good. Wasn't really a big fan of the team with 2 Cold Scorpio, but it's fun (and weird) seeing Scorpio wrestle the likes of Akiyama and Misawa, though.

I really need to step up my 80s-mid 00s joshi watching. I'm pretty exclusively just Nakano/Kong/Hokuto/Toyota matches, and some current Stardom/TJPW with a real small sampling of Sendai Girls mixed in. Not the same conversation, but I'm still trying to find Billie Starkz vs Yuka Sakazaki somewhere.

Once you get out the AJW comfort zone and go through most of the notable matches, it's pretty freeing. Unfortunately, there isn't a laundry list of great AJW matches post 97 exodus. There is some good stuff with Momoe/Nanae/Watanabe/Ito vs. LCO/Maekawa and freshly turned Hotta and Toyota in various permutations and some decent stuff with Black Joker, but you can go through that pretty quickly. The good thing and probably bittersweet thing is once you get to the dark age era of like JWP, NEO, OZ, and some of the other promotions in the mid 2000s, you can see the through line for what's going to today and how influential that generation is today's generation. Kaori Yoneyama is kinda a bit player in Stardom as Fukigen Death, but in her heyday, she was a badass wrestler. Same with Emi Sakura. Also, you run into some straight weird shit like Kyoko Kimura and Bullfight Sora vs. prepubescent Rebecca Knox and whoever the hell she was tagging with, and it's like you're on some type of LCD trip. You're going to get pleasantly surprised a lot.

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Eivion

Eivion

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6 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Kaori Yoneyama is kinda a bit player in Stardom as Fukigen Death, but in her heyday, she was a badass wrestler.

Yoneyama confuses me as she was still that wrestler when she started in Stardom and can still clearly go now. I'm curious why she decided she would rather do mostly comedy.

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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2 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Yoneyama confuses me as she was still that wrestler when she started in Stardom and can still clearly go now. I'm curious why she decided she would rather do mostly comedy.

Maybe she gets her kicks doing stuff like YMZ and being wacky. That and besides like Tam Nakano who no one would believe is older than 25 and Nanae returning, there ain't that many women in Stardom over 30. Risa Sera is 31, but she's basically working freelance/has her own promotion. KAIRI is 34 but she isn't on every tour obviously.

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Eivion

Eivion

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2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Maybe she gets her kicks doing stuff like YMZ and being wacky. That and besides like Tam Nakano who no one would believe is older than 25 and Nanae returning, there ain't that many women in Stardom over 30. Risa Sera is 31, but she's basically working freelance/has her own promotion. KAIRI is 34 but she isn't on every tour obviously.

Mai Sakurai, Mina Shirakawa, Natsuko Tora, Syuri, Sayaka Unagi, & Momo Kohgo are all over 30. Unagi and Kohgo are apparently in 37-38 range. 

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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49 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Mai Sakurai, Mina Shirakawa, Natsuko Tora, Syuri, Sayaka Unagi, & Momo Kohgo are all over 30. Unagi and Kohgo are apparently in 37-38 range. 

....that's exactly my point. Besides Syuri who holds the red belt, is a top 5 female worker, and probably top 15-20 regardless of gender, who of that group is getting a push? Mina just got a shot at the Wonder of Stardom title (almost had her jaw detached from her skull in the process fwiw), but she serves a certain role. Add in the fact, Tam, Unagi, and Mina could all pass for 21 and no one would bat an eye. The latter two only started wrestling 3 years ago. Tora just came back from injury just to job to Utami and finish off that red belt match that got cut short.

If you take away the girls that are * > 35 or on the cusp of 30 like Iwatani, you don't many approaching 40 or way over like the aforementioned Yoneyama and Nanae who obviously help found the company. You definitely don't have ones who are getting significant pushes. So for someone like Yoneyama, I can see why she would just decide to be the comedy person in the openers. Now is she underutilized based on her skill level? Yes, but that is probably applicable to a bunch of (most likely younger) women on that roster. 

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zendragon

zendragon

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15 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

There's an alternate time line where The Iron Sheik didnt loose the title and he and Slaughter's blood soaked war in the summer over the belt is the stuff of legend.

This is an interesting answer to the question "What does Vince do if he can't get Hogan to jump?"

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DEAN

DEAN

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28 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

Randy Savage becomes the biggest wrestling star of all time.

I read that as "Randy Hogan becomes the biggest wrestling star of all time."

3000x3000_14635796.jpg

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Zakk_Sabbath

Zakk_Sabbath

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1 hour ago, L_W_P said:

Randy Savage becomes the biggest wrestling star of all time.

 

3 hours ago, zendragon said:

This is an interesting answer to the question "What does Vince do if he can't get Hogan to jump?"

 

It might be recency bias because we just watched his DSOTR episode recently, but I think there's for sure a timeline out in the multiverse somewhere where we get national treasure and pop culture icon Dr. D. 

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Matt D

Matt D

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8 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

And once Kerry's motorcycle accident still happens in that timeline as well, do we get Savage as a replacement around the time he was the IC-champ IRL?

Honestly, what probably happens is that Kerry can't figure out the notoriously insane late 80s WWF trans and ends up accidentally taking a flight to Hawaii and just ends up living there.

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twiztor

twiztor

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tournament time!

Randy Savage vs. Chris Jericho

Sabu vs. Samoa Joe

Jushin Liger vs. Psicosis

Owen Hart vs. Eddie Guerrero

honestly, i'm not booking the rest of the tournament because i want to see all of those matches. even the ones that already took place. Are we sure this isn't round robin style? because i'm here for that.

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Sublime

Sublime

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Posted (edited)

Since posting my fantasy tournament yesterday I’ve realized my true dream tournament would have Toru Yano go through Santino in the first round in a match that was a mix of comedy and them both tapping into their legit ability to throw people. Then in the second round William Regal gets to showcase all of his comedic timing and facials as he’s flummoxed at Yanos antics. And in the finals Yano and Eddie Guerrero (in full Lie, cheat and steal mode) trying to one up each other in stealing the win and set a record for most dusty finishes in one match regardless of who goes over we all win.

Edited by Sublime
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