DYNAMITE!- 11/2/2022!

[John from Cincinnati]

Perhaps the supposed contentment to be a small business wasn't something people should have been so eager to believe. A billionaire came in with primetime TV in big buildings on the TV network that used to air the primary opposition to the current longtime #1. It was always going to aspire to be big. We've also had years of Jericho doing bad "sports entertainment" segments with catchphrases galore, early shows packed to the gills with nostalgia pops for Bret, R&R, DDP, Glacier... I really think this is what AEW's always been and/or aspired to be. The difference between then and now isn't that extreme, outside of more access to talent and gaining some experience serving stuff that occasionally didn't really belong on TV.

I never saw the In-N-Out mirage, so maybe that's why I'm not disappointed about perceived change. It's all AEW, same as it ever was for me: Some I like, some I don't, negligible quality control. Maybe I should be categorizing by soft drink brand, but I doubt I'd find the distinction that meaningful. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by John from Cincinnati

[Jenalysis]

all I know is I'm getting a few really good matches each week, some stars that really interest me, some representation I wouldn't have seen before.

I'm happy AEW exists, and without it, I probably would only be watching NJPW and whatever happened to the ROH talent in an AEW-less world (my guess is ROH survives)

 

[TheVileOne]

Not saying he has to win it right away, but the one guy I want to see beat Wardlow for the TNT title is Hobbs. 

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

I was digging the Darby-Lethal program and rematch, thinking about how it's the first thing they've done with Lethal that I've actually been into and it's good to see them doing anything with Darby at this point and then swung all the way around to WTF is this shit at the end.  The fake Sting thing was so, so lame and I thought Tony learned his lesson by now with the underwhelming reveals, though I guess it was supposed to be because he wasn't the big surprise.....

Man oh man.  When I see Jeff Jarrett I think of TNA and the death spiral of WCW.  It's not what I want from AEW.  Bad vibes.  I don't even dislike him and can handle him in small doses (his brief WWE return was a fine nostalgia surprise), he may be a great backstage hire, but I can't spin what looks like Jarrett vs. Sting in AEW in 2022 as a good thing.  Bring back DDP and Steiner while you're at it, get the whole band back together.  I guess if they're going to be the spiritual successor to WCW we take the good with the bad.....

I'm in a weird place with my AEW fandom at this point.  I love AEW, I've been super into it since day 1, but gradually and for a variety of reasons the bloom is off the rose.  Good to know I'm not alone as I see some others here feeling the same way.  Feels bad, man.  And it sucks because AEW filled a major void and was the best thing to happen to North American wrestling in forever.  Still is, but the promotion overall hasn't really been clicking with me lately the way it did in the past, and I've been down on a lot of the booking big and small all year

I know some people argue this, but for me personally all the ROH stuff has been a detriment to the product.  You're still establishing AEW as a young promotion, introducing ROH muddies the water and shows feel like Ring of AEW at times.  Why is AEW sharing TV time with ROH?  Big turnoff for me and I really think it's hurt the identity of the product.  WITH ALL THAT SAID Chris Jericho is on my shortlist of all-time faves and I'm loving him as ROH champion.  Disrespectful champion will never not get over with me.  Before the Ocho the ROH experiment was a total negative for me and he's singlehandedly redeeming it

Flooding the zone with so many title belts has also been a negative.  I'm generally fine with having more belts than purists would want if they're all established with unique identities, but AEW introduced way too many titles in too short a time period.  I even forget that Wardlow is TNT champ sometimes.  That belt went from being incredibly well booked and special thru Miro to just another title

I don't like being negative, and there's definitely a part of me that knows I'm more critical of AEW now than I was 3 years ago when I was willing to overlook a lot more as growing pains and bumps in the road.  I'm sure if I looked back at early shows they'd look pretty bad in comparison to the average show now.  But part of the reason is that AEW improved a lot, they set the bar really, really high, and they've come back down to earth.  And there was also a constant growth and progression that made the shows fun and engaging to be along with the ride for that has stalled out, and they've been struggling to hit their groove again.  It feels like they made this slow and steady climb, plateaued early, and have been sliding backwards.  I'm Hoping that the further removed they get from the Punk fiasco and all the backstage drama, and with the Elite being back as a shot in the arm, that they'll close the year out strong and get some momentum back

[TheVileOne]

I still don't see the value buying ROH has brought to AEW. 

[Jenalysis]

The value is going to be the tape library long-term.  Eventually, AEW needs streaming revenue in addition to the TV money if it wants to grow more.

It's hurting bad in the short-term.  I want that ROH announcement soon so we can get back to AEW being AEW.  EIther that or just merge some belts.

 

If I was TK, I'd have my belts tiered this way:

Pretty Platinum as the 1A belt

ROH belt as the secondary/1B belt, and treated like a big deal.

All-Atlantic/Pure Rules/TV belts as specialty belts:

All-Atlantic would be like Stardom's SWA belt

Pure belt would be Pure Rules (perhaps tweaked a bit)

TV belt would be 20 min , open challenge .

 

The Tag and Trios belts would be merged.

TBS and ROH Women's belt would also be merged.

 

[The Natural]

This is definitely AEW's worst year for booking but I'd say the wrestling is mostly overriding it. It's between this and 2021 for AEW's best year inside the ropes, I'd give it to 2021 thanks to Bryan Danielson's epic run.

Returning to bad booking this year, wrong winners: not putting the AEW World Championship on Bryan Danielson or the AEW World Tag Team Championship on #FTR at their hottest and the damage done to the titles. The TNT Championship is the biggest example going from a secondary championship that meant something thanks to Cody/the late great Mr. Brodie Lee/Darby Allin/Miro to the bullshit with Sammy Guevara/Scorpio Sky, it's lost its lustre. The AEW World Championship between Jon Moxley and CM Punk. The unnecessary AEW All Atlantic Championship. The Interim BS.

There's ROH fighting it out for TV time with the ROH belts to go with all of AEW's.

Signing Jeff Jarrett is a ugh for me. When I think of Jarrett, it's how he was mainly on top as the NWA World Heavyweight Champion in TNA when there were better options. The reigns of terror equivalent to Triple H's World Heavyweight Championship in WWE, December 2002-September 2003.

Injuries haven't helped the company either. You also get talent showing up then disappearing with the big ass roster. Buying a ticket might mean missing out on your favourites so why take the risk?

AEW even now has timing issues with things going too long or too short and having to rush things before time runs out. Not staying longer with winners of matches going straight to the next. Stay a little longer to soak in the aftermath.

I'm still an AEW fan but I have issues with it as noted in this post.

Edited November 4, 2022 by The Natural

[TheVileOne]

1 hour ago, Jenalysis said:

The value is going to be the tape library long-term.  Eventually, AEW needs streaming revenue in addition to the TV money if it wants to grow more.

It's hurting bad in the short-term.  I want that ROH announcement soon so we can get back to AEW being AEW.  EIther that or just merge some belts.

 

If I was TK, I'd have my belts tiered this way:

Pretty Platinum as the 1A belt

ROH belt as the secondary/1B belt, and treated like a big deal.

All-Atlantic/Pure Rules/TV belts as specialty belts:

All-Atlantic would be like Stardom's SWA belt

Pure belt would be Pure Rules (perhaps tweaked a bit)

TV belt would be 20 min , open challenge .

 

The Tag and Trios belts would be merged.

TBS and ROH Women's belt would also be merged.

 

I would simply merge the AEW and ROH World titles, merge the trios titles, merge the tag titles. keep the Pure and TV titles maybe and turn them into AEW titles. Or Merge TNT and TV titles since they function similarly.

Other than that, no more ROH.

[HarryArchieGus]

Certainly there's been some growing pains (go figure - that's fucking life!), but this calendar year AEW TV/PPV has offered so many great wrestling matches and promo segments. And so consistently. It's startling how quickly fans turn on a product. Like the complaintants here this company is not always my vision of who should hold the titles and what feuds need to happen, but why would I expect that? I'm content with performers having a platform to make the best of their opportunity. And a booking structure that rewards the ability to get over. Perhaps the blinders are on, but I don't see the most talented ppl on the roster deemed too small or not having 'it'. And being judged by a meglamaniac owner with an onus on size over ability. Further, I don't recall a wrestling promotion from 1990 forward that has run 161 weeks of television even close to the quality of what this promotion has provided? Perhaps the fantasy bookers could bring some awareness to the fact of injuries, massive massive massive egos, backstage tensions and the million other variables that play into the weekly, daily decision making of this company. It feels like a minor miracle that AEW has been anywhere near this strong for this long. I liked this week's show, and am happy to say I fail to see the dip.  

[Matt D]

I already did a four paragraph post on how ROH isn't the issue and it functionally changed very little that Khan wouldn't have done anyway (it just gave us more Dalton Castle basically) where I got a bunch of likes but no one actually engaged me on and searching for "ROH" as a three letter term on this board's occasionally botchy search function isn't going to fly. So just imagine me quoting that again here.

I think Paul hit it on the nose though.

It's the injuries and other incidents. Khan had his notebooks and things planned out and now he had to deal with Injuries or things like Mox being gone for a couple of months due to rehab or Black's mental issues, Jeff Hardy, etc., Cody leaving, Brawl Out, Kingston/Sammy and Andrade/Sammy. Right after he signs a guy like O'Reilly to a big extension and has him win a battle royal for a title shot, he goes down with a career threatening injury. Danielson was out for a couple of months. Kingston was out, which is easy to forget. Punk obviously. Cole is out. Omega was out for a very long time. A Jackson was down for a while. Statlander, Hirsch. Soho. Rosa. It's a massive list. And then you have guys who were working hurt like Dax and Menard. He had to change plans dozens and dozens of times. Of course that's going to be problematic. It's been one shock after another and he's had to scramble again and again and again.

People who were suspended, injured, or otherwise out of action (see Jeff Hardy) the last 12 or so months:

Spoiler

• Moxley
• Rosa
• Fenix
• Bowens
• Cassidy(?) - I think he was out for a month or two and had a big return before Forbidden Door right?
• Adam Cole
• Adam Page
• Andrade (Suspended)
• Angelico
• Matthews (suspension rumor, right?)
• Danielson
• Jericho (Almost died!)
• Christian
• Danhausen came injured so that doesn't really count..
• Punk
• Darius Martin
• Dax (Worked obviously hurt)
• Kingston
• Jeffy Hardy
• Alex Reynolds
• Omega
• O'Reilly
• Lee Johnson
• Luther (I think at least)
• A Jackson
• Menard (obviously worked hurt)
• Matt Sydal
• Black
• Wight or Henry ended up more hurt than expected.
• Santana
• Sammy (suspended)
• Scorpio Sky
• When did Trent come back?
• Bunny
• Statlander
• Hirsch
• Mercedes Martinez
• Ford
• Velvet
• Skye Blue was out for a bit.
• Soho
• Rosa

 

And I'm sure I'm missing someone. That list is absolutely nuts!

[Just Dave]

I didn't think this show was as tight/well presented as the few weeks previous, but I don't think it's a harbinger of doom for the company or anything. The Jarrett hire makes sense to me. For his many flaws and missteps as the head booker/forever champ of TNA, I think his mind for the business is unparalleled. He also is the only one (besides Jericho) of these mainstream wrestling podcasts where there's no hint of "young kids today get it wrong/have it too easy." He's relentlessly positive and I think that approach might work better with AEW's younger talent. As long as he's not a titleholder (although some kind of thing with Adam Page might be really fun) and he's focused on growing AEW's brand/expanding live event business, I don't see how anyone can see it as anything other than the best hire one could have made in that spot.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

I already did a four paragraph post on how ROH isn't the issue and it functionally changed very little that Khan wouldn't have done anyway (it just gave us more Dalton Castle basically) where I got a bunch of likes but no one actually engaged me on and searching for "ROH" as a three letter term on this board's occasionally botchy search function isn't going to fly. So just imagine me quoting that again here.

I think Paul hit it on the nose though.

It's the injuries and other incidents. Khan had his notebooks and things planned out and now he had to deal with Injuries or things like Mox being gone for a couple of months due to rehab or Black's mental issues, Jeff Hardy, etc., Cody leaving, Brawl Out, Kingston/Sammy and Andrade/Sammy. Right after he signs a guy like O'Reilly to a big extension and has him win a battle royal for a title shot, he goes down with a career threatening injury. Danielson was out for a couple of months. Kingston was out, which is easy to forget. Punk obviously. Cole is out. Omega was out for a very long time. A Jackson was down for a while. Statlander, Hirsch. Soho. Rosa. It's a massive list. And then you have guys who were working hurt like Dax and Menard. He had to change plans dozens and dozens of times. Of course that's going to be problematic. It's been one shock after another and he's had to scramble again and again and again.

People who were suspended, injured, or otherwise out of action (see Jeff Hardy) the last 12 or so months:

  Hide contents

• Moxley
• Rosa
• Fenix
• Bowens
• Cassidy(?) - I think he was out for a month or two and had a big return before Forbidden Door right?
• Adam Cole
• Adam Page
• Andrade (Suspended)
• Angelico
• Matthews (suspension rumor, right?)
• Danielson
• Jericho (Almost died!)
• Christian
• Danhausen came injured so that doesn't really count..
• Punk
• Darius Martin
• Dax (Worked obviously hurt)
• Kingston
• Jeffy Hardy
• Alex Reynolds
• Omega
• O'Reilly
• Lee Johnson
• Luther (I think at least)
• A Jackson
• Menard (obviously worked hurt)
• Matt Sydal
• Black
• Wight or Henry ended up more hurt than expected.
• Santana
• Sammy (suspended)
• Scorpio Sky
• When did Trent come back?
• Bunny
• Statlander
• Hirsch
• Mercedes Martinez
• Ford
• Velvet
• Skye Blue was out for a bit.
• Soho
• Rosa

 

And I'm sure I'm missing someone. That list is absolutely nuts!

And:

It's a strength of this company. A real strength. Perhaps their biggest strength.

Wrestlers who get hurt or who have issues that need dealt with get time off to heal and/or to deal. That's a massive and deeply welcome change from the SOP of the past where wrestlers who worked for big companies were frequently pressured to keep going at all costs, and when wrestlers who worked for smaller companies generally could not afford to take time off. 

I'm very much of the opinion that self-medicating with painkillers did more harm and caused more trauma and early death than all the steroids and party drugs combined, in the wrestling world. 

Giving wrestlers an environment where taking the time you need to heal, and taking care of your mental health,  are both supported and encouraged is massive. A sea change. Very much for the better.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Gordlow

[Log]

Jericho almost died? What happened? How the hell did I miss that? I don't even remember him being out at all.

[Matt D]

3 minutes ago, Log said:

Jericho almost died? What happened? How the hell did I miss that? I don't even remember him being out at all.

Pulmonary Embolism while on tour with Fozzy in London in December of last year. The life changes he's made afterwards actually help explain how good he's been in 2022 but that's beside the point.

[ErinQuinn]

I think I really want Last Outlaw Jarrett vs Hangman Page with both riding horses out 

[Log]

27 minutes ago, ErinQuinn said:

I think I really want Last Outlaw Jarrett vs Hangman Page with both riding horses out 

Mixed tag with the horses also fighting?

[(BP)]

A Jarrett match twenty years ago with a guy whose catchphrase is Cowboy Shit would almost certainly involve slip and slides covered in manure around the ring. 

[HarryArchieGus]

3 hours ago, Matt D said:

I already did a four paragraph post on how ROH isn't the issue and it functionally changed very little that Khan wouldn't have done anyway (it just gave us more Dalton Castle basically) where I got a bunch of likes but no one actually engaged me on and searching for "ROH" as a three letter term on this board's occasionally botchy search function isn't going to fly. So just imagine me quoting that again here.

I think Paul hit it on the nose though.

It's the injuries and other incidents. Khan had his notebooks and things planned out and now he had to deal with Injuries or things like Mox being gone for a couple of months due to rehab or Black's mental issues, Jeff Hardy, etc., Cody leaving, Brawl Out, Kingston/Sammy and Andrade/Sammy. Right after he signs a guy like O'Reilly to a big extension and has him win a battle royal for a title shot, he goes down with a career threatening injury. Danielson was out for a couple of months. Kingston was out, which is easy to forget. Punk obviously. Cole is out. Omega was out for a very long time. A Jackson was down for a while. Statlander, Hirsch. Soho. Rosa. It's a massive list. And then you have guys who were working hurt like Dax and Menard. He had to change plans dozens and dozens of times. Of course that's going to be problematic. It's been one shock after another and he's had to scramble again and again and again.

People who were suspended, injured, or otherwise out of action (see Jeff Hardy) the last 12 or so months:

  Hide contents

• Moxley
• Rosa
• Fenix
• Bowens
• Cassidy(?) - I think he was out for a month or two and had a big return before Forbidden Door right?
• Adam Cole
• Adam Page
• Andrade (Suspended)
• Angelico
• Matthews (suspension rumor, right?)
• Danielson
• Jericho (Almost died!)
• Christian
• Danhausen came injured so that doesn't really count..
• Punk
• Darius Martin
• Dax (Worked obviously hurt)
• Kingston
• Jeffy Hardy
• Alex Reynolds
• Omega
• O'Reilly
• Lee Johnson
• Luther (I think at least)
• A Jackson
• Menard (obviously worked hurt)
• Matt Sydal
• Black
• Wight or Henry ended up more hurt than expected.
• Santana
• Sammy (suspended)
• Scorpio Sky
• When did Trent come back?
• Bunny
• Statlander
• Hirsch
• Mercedes Martinez
• Ford
• Velvet
• Skye Blue was out for a bit.
• Soho
• Rosa

 

And I'm sure I'm missing someone. That list is absolutely nuts!

Well said. I don’t think even the injuries etc are a problem. It forced Khan to learn how to pivot and going forth to expect more pivoting. It’s the kind of lesson fantasy bookers never learn. 

Re: ROH

I’m excited about this purchase and have been from the beginning. I like the potential of the catalog and I like a second ‘brand’ offering more spots for more talent. I suspect 2023 will put an end to two annoying and relentless bellyaches: the fictitious bloated roster and the long list of false speculation of what ROH actually is. I suspect once split into its own tv and league it will be every bit as consistently excellent as Dynamite (same booker and production team is what leads me to this) and will drastically alter the current size (no complaints) of the AEW roster. 

[AxB]

4 hours ago, (BP) said:

A Jarrett match twenty years ago with a guy whose catchphrase is Cowboy Shit would almost certainly involve slip and slides covered in manure around the ring. 

There was an angle in Impact where Jeff and Karen were going to renew their Wedding vows in the middle of the ring, and Kurt sneaked up into the rafters and poured horseshit all over them.

(The reason he had the horseshit is, they bought two white horses to the building to be a part of the ceremony. But then Eric Young decided that the horses were his friends Sid and Mongo (the best Horsemen ever) and fed them beans as a treat)

[(BP)]

7 minutes ago, AxB said:

Kurt sneaked up into the rafters and poured horseshit all over them.

(The reason he had the horseshit is, they bought two white horses to the building to be a part of the ceremony. But then Eric Young decided that the horses were his friends Sid and Mongo (the best Horsemen ever) and fed them beans as a treat)

“What do you call an act like that?”

”The Aristocrats!”

[John from Cincinnati]

I for one hope ROH is substantially better than Dynamite. Let Jarrett book it. King of Honor Mountain, baby. Reverse ladder matches with handshakes. 

I smirk when Khan says ROH news is coming in 2023. Could just be kicking the can, and if he has something on the air by December he's kept his word. 

[zendragon]

2 hours ago, AxB said:

There was an angle in Impact where Jeff and Karen were going to renew their Wedding vows in the middle of the ring, and Kurt sneaked up into the rafters and poured horseshit all over them.

(The reason he had the horseshit is, they bought two white horses to the building to be a part of the ceremony. But then Eric Young decided that the horses were his friends Sid and Mongo (the best Horsemen ever) and fed them beans as a treat)

I'm not gonna google and just assume that last part it true. Cause that's the time line I want to live in.

As for ROH I find the ROH stuff has me most entertained. Dalton Castle, Ring of Jericho, Claudio, FTR, Warjo

[Brandon Bones]

Best thing about Brian Cage?

His Scott Steiner impression.

I’d say it was a “pretty good match” with Joe.

 But we all know how I hate damning with faint praise.  
 

Nice to see Danielson still in his Darby costume from Halloween.

Hobbes.  All the way.  He has IT.

I watched this in bits and pieces throughout the week.  So I guess it wasn’t as challenging for me to watch.  But I’ll say there wasn’t much that was special about this episode overall but I’ve survived worse from periods of time than this phase of AEW.

WWF in 95.  
 

Summer of 91 WCW.  Barf emoji.

I dropped 2000 WCW like the last season of Weeds.

Fuck that shit.

But I get it.  It’s nothing new to say that “When your backstage drama exceeds interest in your drama in front of the camera”… there’s some shit to get together.  
 

Full Gear should still be an awesome show.  

 

[JLowe]

Hi everyone! Due to the World Series and being incredibly busy at work, I just finally got to see Dynamite and can finally read this thread!
Unfortunately, thanks to a Twitter addiction, all the surprises were spoiled.

so, before I read the thread and others thoughts, here are mine: that show was way below standard.

Darby-Lethal was good! The aftermath sucked to high heaven, and seeing/hearing Jeff Jarrett literally cut my excitement and interest in AEW going forward by at least 25%.

Jade-Marina was as awkward and sloppy as before. Nyla tried to save the day but Jade no-sold since she still isn’t very good at in-ring acting and reactions.

Jericho-Colt was good, fun to see Colt do all his stuff. The after brawl was great, JAS-BCC is the best thing going for AEW.

Mox-Moriarty didn’t click for me. It just wasn’t violent or stiff.

For all my gripes about sports entertainment, I loved just about everything about Daddy Ass birthday celebration. Caster, Bowens, and Billy have really seized this moment and are scoring every time they get the ball. And even though they explained the lack of cake, I was still missing it.

Triple-threat was fine, best moments were Fenix-OC, more of that. Fenix gets as much air as Dante. I guess DT is breaking up in time for Elite to come back and get their belts.

Main just couldn’t hold my attention. Like Cage is clearly very athletic but is just so dumb looking and roided I can’t take him seriously. Joe is Joe, he’s not what he was but he’s always going to go hard and fight stiff.

Best backstage stuff was the Hayter-Storm build and Mosley’s promo (which didn’t pay off). Worst was teasing a return of HoB and whatever Saraya was going on about.

Probably won’t get to Rampage until Saturday.

[JLowe]

On 11/3/2022 at 10:04 AM, hobo joe said:

That’s the whole point of Steel Reserve

User name checks out