Black Panther: Wakanda Forever - 11/11/2022 (Spoilers)

[Nomad]

Thought this was a great movie.  So much emotional depth compared to most other comic book movies.  Even Namors little wings didn't seem too stupid.  Although the impalement was a little WTF.

[J.T.]

Went to see this last night with my daughter and we both loved it.  A great movie with tons of heart.  Leticia Wright did a great job conveying the anguish of the hero's journey, but Angela Bassett carried the first act and half of the second act of that movie on her back.

Dominique Thorne is a great kid sis and suddenly I am looking forward to Ironheart dropping on Disney+.  Hopefully Riri will run into Ned Leeds and Mary Jane in the show since the both of them are headed to MIT as per the ending of Spider-Man: No Way Home.

Nice incorporation of Doomwar with the Talokani sitting in for the Latverians.  Got a tad misty during the Marvel Studios tribute montage to Chadwick. 

I like how Marvel didn't even try to do Dueling Atlanteans with DC's Aquaman and just created an entirely unique culture and origin for Namor and his people.  Not sure if that was the plan all along (EVIL WOKE CASTING~!) or if they simply couldn't use Atlantis as an origin because the Aquaman movie came first but who cares?  It was fucking great. 

It was also awesome that the Talokani used sonic hypnosis weapon so that you could reasonably conclude that all of the tales of sailors' ancient encounters with mermaids in the MCU or the story of Ulysses and the Sirens from The Odyssey were actually encounters with the Talokani.

Shuri defeating Namor by goading him into walking into a microwave oven was so much more scientific and far less eye rolling than the bullshit from the old school comics where Reed Richards tricks Namor into diving into a swimming pool full of rubbing alcohol.  They also somehow made the silly ankle wings totally badass and even managed to sneak in IMPERIUS REX~!

Marked for Everett Ross and Valentina Allegra de Fontaine being a divorced couple and for the introduction of young Prince T'Challa.  I figured as much.  Also marked for Namor saying the M word that isn't Magneto. 

Long live King M'Baku.  Praise Hanuman.

Edited November 25, 2022 by J.T.

[odessasteps]

7 hours ago, J.T. said:

It was also awesome that the Talokani used sonic hypnosis weapon so that you could reasonably conclude that all of the tales of sailors' ancient encounters with mermaids in the MCU or the story of Ulysses and the Sirens from The Odyssey were actually encounters with the Talokani.

Are they that old? I read it as them maybe being a few hundred years old at most. Unless there were earlier versions. 

[J.T.]

4 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Are they that old? I read it as them maybe being a few hundred years old at most. Unless there were earlier versions. 

It's hard to say.  Most generous historical estimations say that the peak of Mesoamerican society happened about three centuries ago.   The Odyssey was first composed by Homer IIRC around the 8th century BC.  

The time window is extremely tight, but I think we're supposed to assume from the movie that the siren song of ancient myth is actually an ability native to the Talokani.

Edited November 25, 2022 by J.T.

[odessasteps]

I wonder if there could be other underwater tribes in other parts 9f the world. Or would the Talokians have met up with them over the past few centuries?

[J.T.]

11 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I wonder if there could be other underwater tribes in other parts 9f the world. Or would the Talokians have met up with them over the past few centuries?

Either that or the Talokani practically own the sea and every occurrence in myth about mermaids, tritons, selkie, nymphs, and other sea humanoids were encounters with the Talokani in ancient times. 

Talokan is only the capital city of Namor's empire.  We have no idea how expansive it really is.  The Talokani could have settlements located anywhere under the world's oceans.  Obviously, their numbers would be small compared to ours since they have not had as much time as surface humans to build a decent population size.

Edited November 25, 2022 by J.T.

[Craig H]

On 11/20/2022 at 4:43 PM, Matt D said:

Great movie. Namor needed to be more of a pompous asshole.

Yeeeeeeessssssssssssssss. That's the best way to summarize my review. 

[J.T.]

I am old.  I just remembered Namor's origin soliloquy where he talked about his tribe using the plant to escape the onslaught of the Conquistadors.  The Spanish war with the tribes in Mesoamerica (primarily the Aztecs) did not begin until 1519, so Talokani society can't be more than six hundred years old.  There goes the Siren song theory as it pertains to the Talokani, but perhaps there were other humans in ancient times that ingested the plant and gained the same abilities the Talokani have.  After all, vibranium has been on earth since prehistoric times and now we know that Wakanda isn't the only place on earth where it exists.

Edited November 26, 2022 by J.T.

[odessasteps]

5 hours ago, J.T. said:

I am old.  I just remembered Namor's origin soliloquy where he talked about his tribe using the plant to escape the onslaught of the Conquistadors.  The Spanish war with the tribes in Mesoamerica (primarily the Aztecs) did not begin until 1519, so Talokani society can't be more than six hundred years old.  There goes the Siren song theory as it pertains to the Talokani, but perhaps there were other humans in ancient times that ingested the plant and gained the same abilities the Talokani have.  After all, vibranium has been on earth since prehistoric times and now we know that Wakanda isn't the only place on earth where it exists.

This was basically what I asked the other day.

[J.T.]

9 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

This was basically what I asked the other day.

I know.  That is as close to an apology as you are likely to get.

[Ace]

I liked, but did not love it. I thought Shuri was the weak link of the film, and that every other character was more interesting.

 

[Eivion]

Finally saw the movie tonight. Absolutely loved it. I thought everyone involved did a fine job in their roles though Wright and Bassett were without question the highlights. The emotion they portrayed at various moments was fantastic and made you feel for them. Namor not being the cockiest motherfucker alive that he is in the comics feels weird, but this was not the film for such a portrayal anyways. I thought his character and motivations worked well and am curious to see how he evolves over time in the MCU. I dug the history of the Talokanis and the similarities they shared with Wakanda. In a way it made the war a bit more tragic as they are two nations who should understand each other all the more. The tribute to Boseman at the end was lovely. As was the mid scene meeting with the son. 

Dug BP1 a good deal, but I think Wakanda Forever might eclipse it for me. Great movie all around and probably the best from this Phase Four of the MCU. An excellent film to end Phase Four on.

[odessasteps]

Coming to D+ on Jan 20. 

[odessasteps]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:30 AM, odessasteps said:

Coming to D+ on Jan 20. 

Or not 

 

[JLowe]

Finally saw this last night (it’s been a long, mostly bad few months) and wish I had seen it in theaters if just for the underwater scenes.

As a Mesoamerican Archaeologist (by education) I really liked the origin of Namor and the Tlakoni (?) being a Yucatecan group with a flower in a sacred cenote and motivation being colonization and genocide of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. I also liked that it wasn’t Atlantis given how that myth has been turned into racist pseudoscience.

I was hoping they would go with multiple Black Panthers, including Okoye, but I guess it has to be a member of the royal family. I thought Wright did very well and showed emotional growth and maturity as a character, hopefully she can do so in life.

Angela Bassett was a showstopper and I’m glad they gave her such a major role.