Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

October 2022 Wrestling Discussion


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, S.K.o.S. said:

I always think back to a sign in the crowd on WWE tv, pink sign with black letters, obviously Hitman colors, and it said "SAME FIVE MOVES".

(I like Bret! But the sign was funny)

...as opposed to the gamut and repertoire of moves that Earthquake and Damien Demento were giving folks.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Wasnt he doing that spot when Vader knocked him teeth out at Starrcade 93? 

Yeah, he hit a couple of top rope punches or something in that match. He also won his 2nd world title from Race with a crossbody from the top.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's important to keep in mind that the way we view wrestlers through a body of work didn't exist when they were actually wrestling. Outside of very small circles, there was no wrestling criticism. It would be inconceivable to 1987 Ric Flair that his matches would be collected and debated. From that perspective, why shouldn't Flair go to the same well over and over again if that's what works from a drawing/engagement perspective? What else matters to 1987 Ric Flair?

Which brings us to Bret. Bret was at least a generation ahead of his time. He was the outlier. When you start comparing other wrestlers to Bret just about everyone looks bad.  

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that criticizing the tropes that a traveling champion used in every match, in that era, is bizarre to me. 

Seeing the traveling champ during that era was more like Hamilton or whatever coming to town than the weekly national TV wrestling we get today. You’re gonna go see Hamilton and they aren’t going to sing My Shot?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Here you go.

I'll have to watch this when I get home. With that said,  when PWO did their greatest wrestler ever poll a few years back,  Jumbo was my #1. I'd watch Jumbo wrestle almost anybody. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's been quite awhile since I've watched it but I remember just losing it for that match. There's another one with Harley and Baba that I remember getting off Ditch's site that was really good too. You have to take in mind that Harley was slow and methodical but the match builds through the three falls to big finishes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

I agree that criticizing the tropes that a traveling champion used in every match, in that era, is bizarre to me. 

Seeing the traveling champ during that era was more like Hamilton or whatever coming to town than the weekly national TV wrestling we get today. You’re gonna go see Hamilton and they aren’t going to sing My Shot?

Or more like seeing your local repertoire group doing Hamilton except they managed to get Daveed Diggs to make a guest spot.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, JohnnyJ said:

It's important to keep in mind that the way we view wrestlers through a body of work didn't exist when they were actually wrestling. Outside of very small circles, there was no wrestling criticism. It would be inconceivable to 1987 Ric Flair that his matches would be collected and debated. From that perspective, why shouldn't Flair go to the same well over and over again if that's what works from a drawing/engagement perspective? What else matters to 1987 Ric Flair?

Which brings us to Bret. Bret was at least a generation ahead of his time. He was the outlier. When you start comparing other wrestlers to Bret just about everyone looks bad.  

This is an important point. I'd put it this way. As a community, we're not necessarily looking for some sort of objective truth about who was the greatest champion in-ring. That's unknowable. All we can do is judge based on footage along the lens of which wrestler has the matches that appeal to us the most as viewers. Which trends do we find most enjoyable as we consume this material. That should be the goal we're seeking for the most part, because this is knowable and it's a worthwhile exercise relative to just batting our heads against people talking about reps or whatever. There's also the notion that wrestling has advanced so much that we're going to be drawn to a certain style or overlook certain things, but that's ridiculous. It's like saying that we can't read Dumas or Dickens and find things to enjoy in them for their own sake AND in understanding what's come after because The Di Vinci Code or Ready Player One or The Luminaries or Watchmen or whatever exists. Or watch Citizen Kane or The Third Man or Maltese Falcon because we've seen Fast and Furious 6 or Moonlight or something.

Context is important and worth understanding but the text is the text and we can judge texts.

Edited by Matt D
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After giving it some thought I think would take Flairs series v. Steamboat (His best work) over Brets series v Austin (His best work). After that I would take Bret over Flair in big matches but take Flair as traveling champion  over House Show Bret

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

It's important to keep in mind that the way we view wrestlers through a body of work didn't exist when they were actually wrestling. Outside of very small circles, there was no wrestling criticism. It would be inconceivable to 1987 Ric Flair that his matches would be collected and debated. From that perspective, why shouldn't Flair go to the same well over and over again if that's what works from a drawing/engagement perspective? What else matters to 1987 Ric Flair?

Which brings us to Bret. Bret was at least a generation ahead of his time. He was the outlier. When you start comparing other wrestlers to Bret just about everyone looks bad.  

I love Bret as much as the next person on this board but one thing he lacked that Flair had by the boatload was Charisma. Bret came off very likeable but Flair never needed that extra help from the machine that was WWF that hammered home Bret was the guy. Flair accomplished the same just doing promos. 
 

In some ways I wonder if Bret isn’t more responsible for the MOVEZ~! mindset then people realize. Also helps he never turned out to be a garbage human being like so many of his peers. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/17/2022 at 7:49 PM, zendragon said:

I remember Bret's comeback/ finishing sequence was called "The 5 Moves of Doom" but I was never sure which 5 moves they where

I've never encountered two Bret detractors who could agree on exactly which five moves they were either, which I think says all that needs to be said about whether Bret was actually repetitive.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scott Keith is as much to blame for the era of meaningless flips and Johnny Kickpads as anybody. Dude ruined a generation of fans and future performers by shitting on Sid and Mark Henry while hyping drizzling shit white meat technical matches or whatever. 

The world would be a much happier place if instead of that clown it was a reviewer that grew up on Memphis and Mid South that rose to prominence as a taste creator in the early internet.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

Scott Keith is as much to blame for the era of meaningless flips and Johnny Kickpads as anybody. Dude ruined a generation of fans and future performers by shitting on Sid and Mark Henry while hyping drizzling shit white meat technical matches or whatever. 

The world would be a much happier place if instead of that clown it was a reviewer that grew up on Memphis and Mid South that rose to prominence as a taste creator in the early internet.

I mean, the DVDVR staff basically discovered OMEGA while also being guys who grew up on Memphis and Mid South and also loved Sid and Mark Henry. It could be argued that DVDVR has had just as outsized a role in US pro wrestling in the 2010s and 2020s, if not more so, as Scott Keith and Bix. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It prob also helps to be a group of people, with similar yet distinct tastes, than just 1 person. 

It is funny to wonder how things would be different if one of the other sheet writers had become the industry leader instead of Dave. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wrestling tastemakers should use more tildebangs, yes. 

I feel like DVDVR gets credit for the backlash to Shawn Michaels more than any one thing. Though even people who don't know of DVDVR and can't pinpoint where it started will bring up the Mark Henry > Shawn Michaels argument sometimes (and in varying contexts/for varying reasons).

DVDVR is the best tastemaker anyway IMO. I have vastly grown my sphere of wrestling enjoyment since I started lurking here in the mid-aughts. I got into wrestlers from Steve Grey to Vordell Walker just reading here. I had a lot of curiosity about wrestling that I'd never seen, but the nice thing about this community (and I'm sure the same can be said of PWO) is that it helped me to focus my curiosity. 

DVDVR + YouTube is a powerful equation. 

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Sublime said:

It should have been DEAN that became the wrestling taste maker think of how much more positive wrestling discourse online would be. God I can’t believe I use to read Scott Keith’s drivel

Shit yeah, give me the one true multiverse reality with more Vordell Walker and Cassidy O’Reilly from Bayou Independent Wrestling spot shows on national PPV and far fewer Lance Storm and Jerry Lynn matches or whatever 

Edited by For Great Justice
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, For Great Justice said:

Scott Keith is as much to blame for the era of meaningless flips and Johnny Kickpads as anybody. Dude ruined a generation of fans and future performers by shitting on Sid and Mark Henry while hyping drizzling shit white meat technical matches or whatever. 

The world would be a much happier place if instead of that clown it was a reviewer that grew up on Memphis and Mid South that rose to prominence as a taste creator in the early internet.

Is DVDR not the same forum where David Bix rated Shawn Michaels vs. HHH from SummerSlam 2002 as one of the worst SummerSlam matches of all time, and the forum nodded sagely in agreement?

Scott's writing style was annoying but his match ratings were pretty spot-on

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look, I think the best HHH/HBK match was their 1997 European Championship match, so I continue to nod at least somewhat sagely in agreement.

(I probably need to watch that match again, but at the time, I thought it was strangely not that great, and I was a huge Michaels mark at the time and still enjoy his work in general.)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...