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October 2022 Wrestling Discussion

The Natural

By The Natural
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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odessasteps

odessasteps

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, (BP) said:

I liked the psychology of the top rope spot.  Flair as a character was megalomaniacal enough that he would believably keep attempting to come off the top because he beat Race for the title doing it, and why wouldn’t it work again? He’s Ric Flair. That’s me doing a lot of headcanon though. 

FLAIR E COYOTE, SUPER GENIUS

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SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

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Posted
16 minutes ago, zendragon said:

Wasn't Five moves of doom for Cena a Michael Cole thing?

IDK when Cole picked it up, but lower-class wrestling forums like Wreddit and Cageside Seats were using it by about 2008/2009 as a way to shit on John Cena. 

Flair definitely hit top rope moves as a face - IIRC, against Funk in '89 as one example - but that GIF you posted was fantastic because of how Flair played it up. Now that's a cool way to do a variation on your typical spots. 

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ka-to

ka-to

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Posted
3 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I get why people are bored by Dory, but I enjoy him. 

Though really I mostly enjoy him when he's wrestling Horst Hoffman, based on the random watching I did of Dory in the '70s on YT a year or two back. 

 

I like Dory too. Something that Dory did that is very lacking from modern wrestling is trying to hold down his opponent's shoulders to the mat for the pin. I watched the Asahi TV Inoki show with the 70's matches today. There was plenty of trying to pin the shoulders action in that. The "hook the leg" that is used by the wrestlers and talked by the announcers now is stupid half the time. Hook the leg is good if you want to pin his ass, not shoulders. 

Watch some Dory from Puerto Rico or from when he was booking Florida as a heel. He did the same Doryism, but bled, cheated, and hit people in the head with a cowboy boot. I thought it was cool to have a dirty heel still doing double arm suplexes and headlocks.

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StevieNippz

StevieNippz

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21 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Flying shoulderblock, sitout hip toss, side-release spinout powerbomb, FU, Five Knuckle Shuffle.

I remember not watching for some time and being thrown off when I saw him doing a Code Red and that weird springboard stunner. If I recall didn't Cena even refer to his offense as the "Five moves of Doom?" Could have been as far back as his rapping days.

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SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

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38 minutes ago, ka-to said:

I like Dory too. Something that Dory did that is very lacking from modern wrestling is trying to hold down his opponent's shoulders to the mat for the pin. I watched the Asahi TV Inoki show with the 70's matches today. There was plenty of trying to pin the shoulders action in that. The "hook the leg" that is used by the wrestlers and talked by the announcers now is stupid half the time. Hook the leg is good if you want to pin his ass, not shoulders. 

Watch some Dory from Puerto Rico or from when he was booking Florida as a heel. He did the same Doryism, but bled, cheated, and hit people in the head with a cowboy boot. I thought it was cool to have a dirty heel still doing double arm suplexes and headlocks.

My preference w/r/t matwork is that it doesn't always have to go somewhere concrete in terms of the wider match, but if you're going to do it, make it look like you're actually trying. Dory actually works the mat. If you're doing matwork, wrench it in, keep working for position, smother or lean on the guy, don't just lay there. That's my only request. 

17 minutes ago, Octopus said:

I remember how excited I was when Kurt Angle joined TNA. Angle vs Samoa Joe was the first PPV I bought. I found his kinetic nonstop offense captivating. Maybe I’ll have a Anglethon and see how I feel now.

I've made my peace with Angle. I don't think he ever did anything quite nearly as good as the Austin match at Summerslam '01 for the rest of his career, but if I want to turn off my brain and see a roidhead throw a billion suplexes, I'm excited to watch him. He's basically Scott Steiner in-ring, and I dig watching Steiner throw bombs. I'm about there with Angle whenever I see him. 

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Eivion

Eivion

Posted
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1 hour ago, StevieNippz said:

I remember not watching for some time and being thrown off when I saw him doing a Code Red and that weird springboard stunner. If I recall didn't Cena even refer to his offense as the "Five moves of Doom?" Could have been as far back as his rapping days.

I think he only referenced it as a joke occasionally. 

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The Natural

The Natural

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Okay, so I think now's a good time to bring this up since work has settled down and conveniently there's Bret discussion.  Yesterday was Celebfest 5 and while it's not wise to book it the same day as the Ravens game there was still a good turnout.  Now for some rapid fire stuff.

Orange and Danhausen were awesome to meet, Abadon was super sweet and has quite the lovely Southern accent, we thanked Miro for being fucking awesome and living the dream, Bryce had to separate us, Hangman is a wonderfully handsome gentleman, Ricky Starks is fun to talk to, Colt's doing okay and the mental break last month helped, Nyla made a run-in (covered in the AEW thread) and my wife of all people spent $100 for a Takahashi because she loves the guy and especially Daryl.  The photos we took are here and I may prune it a bit since there's a lot of repeats.  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1c-63uiMOHm2eD3sshu-0jIQ1cAm9NEuf?usp=sharing

BUT the main reason for bringing this us is to discuss one Bret Hart.  I met him twice before and both times fanboyed so much I could barely say anything.  Heck, I don't know if I said anything that made sense but that's nerves for ya.  This time I put it in my head to be as chill as can be and freak out later.  Thankfully I managed that and had what almost feels like a dream.

As he was signing the shades I had to ask him if he knew at the time that he had the intention to have matches that stood the test of time.  He said when the camera was on he strived every night to accomplish that and wanted to make sure that there were holes in his game that people could pick apart.  He took a lot of pride in that and was happy to know people still discuss his work every day.  He also asked what my favorite match was.  While it almost felt like cheating I said the submission match against Stone Cold.  But I made sure to point out what I loved so much about it and he beamed as he said that's his favorite too.  Lastly I thanked him for the Cameo last year for @The Natural and how much that meant to him.  He smiled and said that he was glad to do it and wanted to make sure people knew he was genuine when doing those.

So the tl;dr I guess is Celebfest was fun and on top of that I managed to not freak out talking to my hero.  He was so incredibly nice and as soon as I got up I kept telling my wife I needed a minute.  I go to the side and after a few minutes of shaking out the nerves it dawned on me that that happened and I finally got my signed shades.  Yeah, it was $200 but fuck it that shit was so incredibly worth it.

 

@NikoBaltimore: So chuffed you and your wife had a great time, my friend. Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin from WrestleMania 13 would be my answer as well. *****. Thank you for bringing me up thanking Bret Hart for the Cameo. That Cameo is one of the nicest things someone has ever done for me. Thanks again to you, @Craig H, @Sammo~! and all contributors. Love, Paul xxx.

9 hours ago, Log said:

This is all wonderful, but please don't let it get lost in here that Bret Hart, in person, from his own mouth, talked about @The Natural!

@Log: Surreal, mate. Cheers.

Edited by The Natural
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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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1 hour ago, S.K.o.S. said:

I always think back to a sign in the crowd on WWE tv, pink sign with black letters, obviously Hitman colors, and it said "SAME FIVE MOVES".

(I like Bret! But the sign was funny)

...as opposed to the gamut and repertoire of moves that Earthquake and Damien Demento were giving folks.

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cwoy2j

cwoy2j

Posted
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12 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Wasnt he doing that spot when Vader knocked him teeth out at Starrcade 93? 

Yeah, he hit a couple of top rope punches or something in that match. He also won his 2nd world title from Race with a crossbody from the top.

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JohnnyJ

JohnnyJ

Posted
Posted

It's important to keep in mind that the way we view wrestlers through a body of work didn't exist when they were actually wrestling. Outside of very small circles, there was no wrestling criticism. It would be inconceivable to 1987 Ric Flair that his matches would be collected and debated. From that perspective, why shouldn't Flair go to the same well over and over again if that's what works from a drawing/engagement perspective? What else matters to 1987 Ric Flair?

Which brings us to Bret. Bret was at least a generation ahead of his time. He was the outlier. When you start comparing other wrestlers to Bret just about everyone looks bad.  

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