SirSmUgly Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 Good to see someone else rate the Perfect KotR match over the SummerSlam one. Has the Bret/Perfect match from Alaska never come out on fancam? That's probably one of my most wanted house show fancams, if not my most wanted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolCB Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said: Has the Bret/Perfect match from Alaska never come out on fancam? That's probably one of my most wanted house show fancams, if not my most wanted. Nah, just a photo... https://i.postimg.cc/fRrL6G7s/Eq-Sa88s-Vo-AIBWh3.jpg Edited October 16, 2022 by PetrolCB 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 13 hours ago, The Natural said: The Excellence of Execution is the most apt wrestling nickname. When I think of storytelling and delivery of moves, it's Bret Hart. Nobody does the Sharpshooter better than Bret. When I think of the Russian Legsweep, Elbow from the middle rope, Piledriver, European Uppercut, Suplex, Superplex and punches, it's Bret Hart. My top 15 Bret Hart matches: 15. Bret Hart vs. Ricky Steamboat. 8th March 1986. 14. Bret Hart vs. Diesel. Royal Rumble 1995. 13. Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker. One Night Only 1997. 12. Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect. SummerSlam 1991. 11. Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog. SummerSlam 1992. 10. Bret Hart vs. 123 Kid. RAW, 11th July 1994. 9. Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Vader. In Your House 13: Final Four. 8. Bret Hart/Owen Hart/British Bulldog/Jim Neidhart/Brian Pillman vs. Steve Austin/Legion of Doom/Goldust/Ken Shamrock. In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede. 7. Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect. King of the Ring 1993. 6. Bret Hart vs. Diesel. Survivor Series 1995. 5. Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog. In Your House 5: Season's Beatings. 4. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart. SummerSlam 1994. *****. 3. Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin. Survivor Series 1996. *****. 2. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart. WrestleMania X. *****. 1. Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin. WrestleMania 13. *****. The greatest match in wrestling history. --- Fucking love Bret Hart. One of the other things that puts Bret over top of just about anyone else is his ability to switch things up like he beat Davey Boy with a Magistral Cradle or Bigelow with a victory roll or the Finish at WM 8. He would get clean pins over guys on PPV instead of his Sharpshooter. Most top guys especially before Bret got to the top of the card , if the were going over clean on PPV it would be with their Finish. Bret made you feel like he was out to win first and foremost. That was especially cool before the Attitude Era where guys were using their Finishers and people were kicking out or reversing or going to the rope several times. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 54 minutes ago, Ziggy said: One of the other things that puts Bret over top of just about anyone else is his ability to switch things up like he beat Davey Boy with a Magistral Cradle or Bigelow with a victory roll or the Finish at WM 8. He would get clean pins over guys on PPV instead of his Sharpshooter. Most top guys especially before Bret got to the top of the card , if the were going over clean on PPV it would be with their Finish. Bret made you feel like he was out to win first and foremost. That was especially cool before the Attitude Era where guys were using their Finishers and people were kicking out or reversing or going to the rope several times. This. Iconic endings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 Adding to the above, how the victory roll worked out for Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, King of the Ring 1993 but Owen Hart countered it defeating Bret Hart at WrestleMania X. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I guess the Triple H regime is letting the talent do what they want? Mandy Rose has a pretty risqué VIP website, and I’m honestly shocked they’re allowing her to do some of these things (but glad they are because corporations shouldn’t control what employees do on their off-time). Selling ring gear is one thing, but lingerie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 It may depend on what kind of moral terpitude clauses they have and also the whole employee vs contractor thing too. I wonder how exactly it worked in the 2000s with morals clauses when you had company- sanctioned people posing in Playboy. Now, in 2020, I presume things are different, esp when talent gets stuff leaked (ie Paige). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 "Moral clause" is such a messed up name for that practice. I've yet to figure out what's so immoral about having nipples. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: "Moral clause" is such a messed up name for that practice. I've yet to figure out what's so immoral about having nipples. This. Dean Ambrose agrees as well . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 Shout out to the hard working crew. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLowe Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 5 hours ago, odessasteps said: It may depend on what kind of moral terpitude clauses they have and also the whole employee vs contractor thing too. I wonder how exactly it worked in the 2000s with morals clauses when you had company- sanctioned people posing in Playboy. Now, in 2020, I presume things are different, esp when talent gets stuff leaked (ie Paige). Didn't the company actually make a lot of those arrangements for being in Playboy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 42 minutes ago, JLowe said: Didn't the company actually make a lot of those arrangements for being in Playboy? Not 100% certain about the earlier ones, but I'm guessing blindly that they did for some of the later issues featuring their talent, because I recall some sort of co-branded or co-sponsored Playboy battle royal or pillow fight or something 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/15/2022 at 11:13 AM, Ramo2653 said: Going back to the confused looks from wearing a wrestling shirt thing, I get looks and questions when I wear my Shayna Bazler "Submission Magician" shirt. I've gotten asked multiple times if I'm into dom/sub play from wearing that and I have to explain that it's just a cool wrestler. My favourite wrestling shirt moment I've been a part of was my brother wearing a DDP shirt he found at Value Village and an old woman coming up to him and going "Excuse me, young man, what is Dop?" He still brings that up and hasn't watched wrestling in probably over 20 years. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourPostMassacre Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/16/2022 at 6:03 AM, zendragon said: Long matches are in wrestling are like music going from Vinyl to digital. Two sides of Vinyl is about 40 minutes, better give em your best stuff. Sure occasionally you would get a Physical Graffiti but for the most part you have Long Live Rock n Roll short all killer no filler. Then we get CD about 70 minutes so its cool that you get Number of The Beast with Total Eclipse added back in. Now we have digital which is the equivalent of 40+ Adam Cole ROH title matches, every one wants to do these 100 minute albums just for the fuck of it [b]RVD v Jerry Lynn inspired a LOT of copycatism in the post ECW early 2000's indy scene, particularly that counter-counter-counter karate stance spots that was cool when he first saw it and then got done to death[/b] On the first point you can kinda tell who was watching what when they when 15ish. Vets in their late 30's/40's (FTR/Punk) idolize Bret Hart People in their earlier 30's or late 20s like Sasha or Britt Baker grew up on post attitude era / ruthless aggression era. they look up to Jericho and Eddie (and probably Benoit pre tragedy but nobody says that out loud) And yes The American Dragon is the Hero of the Zoomers! As for Cinematic matches. With the death of the house show business I wonder if we don't go back to studio wrestling in some format? Instead of NWA taping in converted casino ballrooms (or what ever they do) I'm waiting for one of these media companies with a streaming service to start a new Lucha Underground (I watches LU on Netflix & Tubi not on first run) build a set that looks decent on a soundstage you all ready own or a warehouse somewhere on the east side of LA and just run tapings. The “Indy Staredown”. Anyone else remember when Bret Hart was considered Mr. 5 moves of doom? Crazy how he’s grown in to this mythical worker in people’s minds now compared to how he was viewed in the past. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Dynamite Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) I don't think people begin to realize the influence of Jeff Hardy. Every little brother I knew wanted to be Jeff Hardy. He wasn't big, he wasn't buff, he didn't talk, his gimmick was nebulous at best. But he was beloved, because he was willing to fall off of stuff. He had a high-flying finisher that anyone could do. If you wanted to be Bret you had to be *really good at stuff*. If you wanted to be Rock or Austin you had to have the requisite charisma. Hell, even if you wanted to be Foley you had to be able to be craaazy + be able to talk. Kids latch on to role models more if they believe the role to be attainable, and the barrier to believing you could be Jeff Hardy was so low, especially for a generation already being weaned on Jackass. The obvious reason why turn-of-the-millenium backyard wrestling looked like ECW is because you don't have to know how to wrestle to crack your friends with a baking sheet and fall off your garage roof, but most of the kids doing that stuff didn't know anything about ECW until after the fact. To make a confidently doltish comparison, Mikey Whipwreck was Big Mama Thorton and Jeff Hardy was Elvis. He didn't invent the style but he was the conduit the middle-class, middle-school gentry employed when they started dreaming in highspots. I think Darby should be that guy in this generation, but I don't think AEW's demo skews young enough for the effect to be the same. WWE obviously got away from that style when they went PG but I think there's absolutely a place for an upper-midcard hardcore highspot underdog babyface. It's a guaranteed merch mover if nothing else. But this is a company that doesn't even have a proper Little Flippy Hero for the kids to look up to, one that can occasionally win a big title. Their 2022 Rey Mysterio is still Rey Mysterio, it should have been Ricochet but that ship probably sailed. But yeah man, it's Jeff. I couldn't stand him as younger man but he showed everybody a whole new path to getting huge reactions on the biggest stages possible without requiring any great set of skills. Fucking Wardlow takes half his moveset from Jeff, christsakes. Edited October 17, 2022 by John E. Dynamite 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLowe Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 32 minutes ago, FourPostMassacre said: Anyone else remember when Bret Hart was considered Mr. 5 moves of doom? Crazy how he’s grown in to this mythical worker in people’s minds now compared to how he was viewed in the past. Lots of Scott Keith-led groupthink on RSPW is partly responsible for that. He is a great worker who also could go on auto-pilot in a lot of his matches. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I remember Bret's comeback/ finishing sequence was called "The 5 Moves of Doom" but I was never sure which 5 moves they where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, FourPostMassacre said: Anyone else remember when Bret Hart was considered Mr. 5 moves of doom? Crazy how he’s grown in to this mythical worker in people’s minds now compared to how he was viewed in the past. The problem was always Scott Keith, never Bret. @JLowebeat me to it. Edited October 17, 2022 by Matt D 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, zendragon said: I remember Bret's comeback/ finishing sequence was called "The 5 Moves of Doom" but I was never sure which 5 moves they where If I recall correctly: Pendulum backbreaker, Russian legsweep, 2nd-rope elbow, Manhattan drop, Sharpshooter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Zimbra said: If I recall correctly: Pendulum backbreaker, Russian legsweep, 2nd-rope elbow, Manhattan drop, Sharpshooter. I always thought a superplex factored in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said: WWE obviously got away from that style when they went PG but I think there's absolutely a place for an upper-midcard hardcore highspot underdog babyface. It's a guaranteed merch mover if nothing else. But this is a company that doesn't even have a proper Little Flippy Hero for the kids to look up to, one that can occasionally win a big title. Their 2022 Rey Mysterio is still Rey Mysterio, it should have been Ricochet but that ship probably sailed. I don't think Ricochet ever could have taken the spot. Something always feels off with him despite his athletics gifts. He would have done better with a solid push, but I don't think he has the physical charisma to be accepted at that level on the main roster. Keep in mind its not like they didn't try to find a new Rey Mysterio. They just failed every time. Also seems weird to bring up Rey when talking Jeff Hardy as they are kind of different even if both are underdogs. Rey was utilizing skill and flash to win. Jeff was going the Foley route of kamikaze. I agree Darby can definitely be Jeff for the current/new generation. Edited October 17, 2022 by Eivion 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 that was the great debate. Was the Sharpshooter #5 or did the 5 moves lead up to the Sharpshooter? I also don't recall it being used pejoratively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 25 minutes ago, nate said: I always thought a superplex factored in as well. I feel like the superplex was more of a big match thing, but he'd definitely mix in his real good vertical suplex sometimes. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 52 minutes ago, zendragon said: that was the great debate. Was the Sharpshooter #5 or did the 5 moves lead up to the Sharpshooter? I also don't recall it being used pejoratively 33 minutes ago, Zimbra said: I feel like the superplex was more of a big match thing, but he'd definitely mix in his real good vertical suplex sometimes. Lumping these together because, yes, I was confused about the regular suplex/superplex inclusion because, after I posted, I started remembering that Bret didn't do a superplex in every match. And I, too, thought it was "the 5 moves of doom" that led to the sharpshooter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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