Extreme Rules XIV - 10/8/2022

[Andrew POE!]

6 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

Well, Liv did beat her twice. I'm not so sure this was some sort of power play. It was inevitable. The plucky babyface managed to win the belt, defend it, and then loses it in a weapons filled brawl to Rousey seems logical. And I don't like Rousey either .

Is it though? Every time I see Rousey on TV, the crowd looks fucking dead. They have to pip in crowd noise when she does her terrible barely above monotone promos. Jumpin' Jeff Farmer would get a better reaction and give a better promo than she does.

Having her win the third match and the title just because when you have a wrestler who is barely adequate isn't the right move. HHH (and WWE) should face facts with Rousey and send her to NXT to work on her material/personality/presence. If she doesn't like it and wants to complain on Twitter or goes to NXT and complains about having to be there on TV, well sitting at home works too.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Andrew POE!

[For Great Justice]

I think Bray will be fine so long as they pick a lane. Like, the Shield six man is the best thing Wyatt’s ever done, and the Firefly Fun House match is the second best thing. Choose one of those two paths - what doesn’t work is having the Fiend mixing it up between the ropes or even worse being in the world title picture.

[Just Dave]

I thought this was pretty bad other than the womens ladder match. Admittedly, I don’t watch much wwe so I don’t give a shit about most of these people, but anyone who can make those “hhh Booker of the year” banners after watching this, even in jest, has got blinders on. Karrion Kross is terrible. With or without hair, it all sucks. They’ve done a fantastic job of killing WALTER’s aura. Ronda Rousey could not want to be there less. Womens ladder match was fantastic. Really really good. “I quit” match was ok with a finish that at least made sense. Main event was dogshit imo but I’ll admit that Seth Rollins is channel change material for me and I’d stopped watching nXt by the time Riddle got there. Bray Wyatt return was cool but now they have to book him. I’m not optimistic. 

[The Natural]

 

[Casey]

All I’ll say is that if Bray is back to being a swamp cult leader or something closer to that, then I’m in. I’ll start watching again. I loved loved loved that character.

Everything after that… big yikes for me, dawg. Fiend was some try hard shit, although Firefly Funhouse was interesting because it was weird in a good way. I still adore the match versus Cena at the pandemic WrestleMania (right?)

[HarryArchieGus]

9 hours ago, Andrew POE! said:

I'm so tired of the WWE attempting to make Ronda Rousey a thing.

She doesn't want to be there and has no personality when she talks on the mic, whether it's as a face or a heel. She sounds absolutely pissed off at having to even be there and does promos about as well as she did reading lines as Sonya Blade for Mortal Kombat. As in, not at all.

Of course, she goes over Liv Morgan. Rousey should be jobbing until HHH is tired of her being there.

The only time Ronda Rousey even came close to having something was her feud with Becky Lynch, which was all due to Lynch. Surprise, surprise Liv Morgan can't recapture that magic because Ronda Rousey is awful and pulled a Hulk Hogan "I'm going to win brother" creative control move.

Rousey and MJF need to start a promotion together so I don't have to see either of them on TV.

I started checking out WWE a month or so ago, after 15 years, and following the regime change. Every time I see Ronda Rousey on my screen I am interested or impressed. That said, I'm curious where this hate comes from as I've seen it prior? I assume it was accumulated by poor booking/performances since whenever she cameback. Did she do an interview where she sounded like she just wanted to cash a check? Evidence of her not wanting to be there from her performance, at least over the past month or so, seems like a pretty ridiculous charge. Not to say they're blow away good, but to me Rousey's promos feel more natural and realistic than the household WWE style. I actually watch her promos as opposed to most of the monotnous talk segments. Not to say I've been blown away or that there weren't a few details that worked less, but I've dug the build to this Liv bout. Further, tho Liv has been fine here, I'm a bit baffled by the idea that she's clearly the more talented and deserving of the title. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 hours ago, Andrew POE! said:

Is it though? Every time I see Rousey on TV, the crowd looks fucking dead. They have to pip in crowd noise when she does her terrible barely above monotone promos. Jumpin' Jeff Farmer would get a better reaction and give a better promo than she does.

Having her win the third match and the title just because when you have a wrestler who is barely adequate isn't the right move. HHH (and WWE) should face facts with Rousey and send her to NXT to work on her material/personality/presence. If she doesn't like it and wants to complain on Twitter or goes to NXT and complains about having to be there on TV, well sitting at home works too.

Her promos are wooden and she is not good delivering scripted verbiage. But to suggest she should (or would) go to nxt to work on anything is just a straight bonkers suggestion lol. She makes the most money of any women in the company. She hasn't amounted to a needle mover in wrestling but she is a legitimate mainstream big deal. At one point she was the female equivalent to Mike Tyson in the 90s. She's not wasting one second in the developmental minor leagues. Just like Mike Tyson wouldn't have if he came in back in 1998. Or maybe a better comparison is Ken Shamrock... who also never spent a second in Memphis.

Regardless, I agree with the opinion there are things she's not good at. But you don't send her to nxt. You just book away from that shit. Why does she need to do long monologues? Not everyone has to be all theatrics all the time. You just pivot. Let her be the short and sweet I'm gonna fuck you up silent killer for awhile. Let her go back to being what she was when she came in. The Ronda that teamed with Kurt. The Ronda that had bangers with Sasha & Bayley. The Ronda that was a big deal in UFC.

But send her to nxt? Wtf lol.

[The Natural]

 

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

37 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Or maybe a better comparison is Ken Shamrock... who also never spent a second in Memphis.

Ken Shamrock had lots of pro wrestling experience pre-WWF. Several years on Mid-Atlantic indies, most notably South Atlantic Pro, an All Japan tour in 1989, he was a regular with Pro Wrestling Fujiwara-Gumi. He might have been rusty after his UFC run but he wasn't a novice.

[Andrew POE!]

35 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Her promos are wooden and she is not good delivering scripted verbiage. But to suggest she should (or would) go to nxt to work on anything is just a straight bonkers suggestion lol. She makes the most money of any women in the company. She hasn't amounted to a needle mover in wrestling but she is a legitimate mainstream big deal. At one point she was the female equivalent to Mike Tyson in the 90s. She's not wasting one second in the developmental minor leagues. Just like Mike Tyson wouldn't have if he came in back in 1998. Or maybe a better comparison is Ken Shamrock... who also never spent a second in Memphis.

Regardless, I agree with the opinion there are things she's not good at. But you don't send her to nxt. You just book away from that shit. Why does she need to do long monologues? Not everyone has to be all theatrics all the time. You just pivot. Let her be the short and sweet I'm gonna fuck you up silent killer for awhile. Let her go back to being what she was when she came in. The Ronda that teamed with Kurt. The Ronda that had bangers with Sasha & Bayley. The Ronda that was a big deal in UFC.

But send her to nxt? Wtf lol.

The very basic thing of her job, which is wrestling, she's not great at either. There's a very small number of women that she have an actual great match with (Becky Lynch, Sasha Banks, Bayley, Charlotte when she decides not to go into business for herself, Natalya sometimes, Shayna Brazier, and that's it). If she isn't going to get better at either wrestling or talking, she needs to be humbled and actually learn it the same way the women that are better on the mic and have better matches are having to learn it. It doesn't matter she makes the most money of any woman. If her segments and matches are bathroom breaks, then it says about the poor state of women's wrestling in WWE.

The Ronda you're talking about hadn't signed a long-term contract at that point and this wrestling thing was fun for her.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I just disagree that it's a performer problem. I see it as a presentation problem. In ring Ronda is fine and capable of having quite good matches. You yourself listed about 40% of the women's roster she works well with. They stopped booking her as special and different. They started booking her like any other women and that was a mistake. She doesn't need nxt. She needs better booking.

I don't know if you've met many millionaires but they don't exactly volunteer for humbling lol. She made bank in MMA. She didn't come to WWE to work the coconut loop and remember what it was like to have to share a tiny apartment with a room mate and eat tuna. She came in as a proven sports draw. She doesn't have to play by the same set of rules as everyone else. That's just life. I'm not even advocating that it's right or fair, I just think it's obtuse to not understand and accept it.

What really put her in a hole are her shitty commentaries on politics and what-not outside of wrestling. You can't pay me enough to cheer on a Sandy Hook truther / all the other garbage she spouts. Wrestling fans lean more socially conscious, so that is going to turn off a whole bunch of us. And that's the real problem and disconnect with why the audience treats her different (in my opinion).

[Andrew POE!]

I'm just saying it's both - a performer's problem and a presentation problem. It wasn't that long ago that she went on her Youtube channel and called what the other women were doing as 'fake' while being nice to their faces when her YT cameras were rolling. Then she comes back and it almost never fails - the WWE gives her women's title reigns while she craps on the belt with a live mic. They give her crappy material because she's a crappy performer. When they present her as a badass and sporadically, it's more manageable.

I get that she's playing by a different set of rules because she's a sports draw; it's just the actual performance of her as a wrestler is terrible and at some point the WWE would have to realize that they aren't going to get the return they thought they would with her. She has no desire to get any better in the ring or on the mic or just in general, so let's have her be the highest paid NXT wrestler ever.

Part of me wishes a female wrestler would call her out about her Sandy Hook beliefs and overall terrible mic work/average to so-so ring work but that will never happen. Maybe Charlotte or Becky could do that, but we would have to hear Ronda Rousey complain about it and who wants that.

[Eivion]

I think Rousey is fine-good in the ring, sucks on the mic with occasional moments of decent, and the hyperbole of dislike for her is mostly based on people legit disliking her as a person. Its fine if you do, but you also have to at some point realize that you probably can't and won't judge anything she does fairly and maybe just skip her matches and segments.

Her current run has been a mixed bag mostly due to booking. I never get the feeling she doesn't want to be there though I do think the rumors of her being unhappy about returning as a face had some truth in them as she seems more motivated in the segments she works with Liv. She is far more at home talking trash and being a dick than anything else.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Eivion

[Gorman]

My kid (19) loved the Bray reveal. Over-the-top theatrics is her favorite part of wrestling, as she also enjoyed the Firefly Funhouse Match. She wonders why wrestling doesn't do this more often, although she acknowledged that you don't want to overdo it.

[The Natural]

 

[Unnatural]

That 6 man tag opening the ple was good shit! Almost skipped Smackdown to catch ER but after the 6 man tag I'm going to have to catch the Gunther/Sheamus match from SD first now

[DreamBroken]

For me it feels like with all the supposed "forward progression", there's a lot of 5 steps and 5 years backwards. Bray's back to do bray things again, Braun's back and he's squashing the tag teams yet again, Here's gargano again, etc. The whole reveal felt like "here's all the goofy lame ass things you hated about bray wyatt before and now here's bray wyatt!" But I guess at least it wasn't "the fiend". I'll give it a chance but the most (and maybe only time) I enjoyed Bray was around 2016 tagging with Orton, feuding with Moxley, etc. so I don't quite feel the same excitement when he really wasn't gone that long. 

Show was solid overall but felt like a lack of stakes with only 2 title matches. I am glad they went back to the original Extreme Rules concept of every match having a stip. Opener was the highlight, thought Gunther was particularly great throughout with his heeling and mannerisms, selling panic when they finally catch and hold him for the weapon shot, etc.

Edited October 10, 2022 by DreamBroken

[kafkonia]

The general audience didn't hate that stuff about Bray. The only things I can think of them actively turning against were the FIend/Rollins cell match (and who wouldn't, with that booking and finish?) and maybe the Orton match with the bugs projected on the map.

The fans were always behind Bray more than the bookers were. Swamp cult leader Bray, Firefly Funhouse Bray, Fiend Bray - he was always over and moved merch. Then the bookers would have him lose the big one and he'd have to rebound. And he would.

In ring he's fine. He's not going to do 450s or quebradoras, but he's a good big guy with surprising quickness.

[username]

I mean everyone talking about Rousey, Liv looked absolutely dreadful in that match and I feel she was given her chance with the belt and proved that she's just not that good. She's got some presence but is a poor promo and in-ring is always a mess, Rousey should not be given a mic ever but is otherwise generally comfortably better than Liv. I get that Liv is likable and tries and that's enough to keep her around, but she's clearly not equipped to be used at this level.

[HarryArchieGus]

My Extreme Rules was a two part special event. Six man opener between Imperium and the Brutes was all killer/no filler. Even bettering the Sheamus-Gunther Smackdown singles rematch. This was as much fun as I've had watching wrestling this year. MOTYC!? This current run is my first time really seeing Sheamus, and I like what I'm seeing. Pete Dunne and Gunther are unstoppable! Vinci and Kaiser are an impressive team. I'm even warming to Ridge. I watched both Liv-Ronda and Kross-Mcintyre in passing, but enjoyed what I saw. I fucking hate Ladder Matches!!! Bayley and Belair are awesome and were good here, but the gimmick wasted what would've been a straight up banger. I ffwd thru Balor-Edge to the late stages. So much drama, but they pulled it off pretty well. Judgment Day's got tremendous heat in the 'Uni'. I saw most of Riddle-Rollins, but couldn't help skimming thru a bit. I liked what I saw other than Cormier's strange non-count. Was that bad improv or bad booking? The Bray Wyatt return was ambitious. I applaud that. Helmsley's got it right with a 6 match card and a 3 hour running time (2-2 1/2 for me). Thumbs up.

Edited October 10, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[The Natural]

11 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

My Extreme Rules was a two part special event. Six man opener between Imperium and the Brutes was all killer/no filler. Even bettering the Sheamus-Gunther Smackdown singles rematch. This was as much fun as I've had watching wrestling this year. MOTYC!? This current run is my first time really seeing Sheamus, and I like what I'm seeing. Pete Dunne and Gunther are unstoppable! Vinci and Kaiser are an impressive team. I'm even warming to Ridge. I watched both Liv-Ronda and Kross-Mcintyre in passing, but enjoyed what I saw. I fucking hate Ladder Matches!!! Bayley and Belair are awesome and were good here, but the gimmick wasted what would've been a straight up banger. I ffwd thru Balor-Edge to the late stages. So much drama, but they pulled it off pretty well. Judgment Day's got tremendous heat in the 'Uni'. I saw most of Riddle-Rollins, but couldn't help skimming thru a bit. I liked what I saw other than Cormier's strange non-count. Was that bad improv or bad booking? The Bray Wyatt return was ambitious. I applaud that. Helmsley's got it right with a 6 match card and a 3 hour running time (2-2 1/2 for me). Thumbs up.

Check out Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan from Extreme Rules 2012, Sheamus vs. The Big Show from Hell in a Cell 2012, Sheamus/Cesaro from SummerSlam 2016/Night of Champions 2016 and Sheamus/Cesaro vs. Seth Rollins/Dean Ambrose from No Mercy 2017. For a while Sheamus/Bryan was Sheamus' best match until Sheamus/GUNTHER from Clash of the Castle which is my MOTY, *****. Take it you've seen it?

[Ziggy]

Ronda is more inspired when she's in there with Nattie or Charlotte but her best match was against Sasha. Too bad Sasha left before we got the rematch before I was actually looking forward to it.  I think she'd work better against people like Bianca or Bayley or Asuka.

She would've been better as the Female Brock and had Heyman be the hype man and she just destroy her opponents. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 hours ago, kafkonia said:

The general audience didn't hate that stuff about Bray. The only things I can think of them actively turning against were the FIend/Rollins cell match (and who wouldn't, with that booking and finish?) and maybe the Orton match with the bugs projected on the map.

The fans were always behind Bray more than the bookers were. Swamp cult leader Bray, Firefly Funhouse Bray, Fiend Bray - he was always over and moved merch. Then the bookers would have him lose the big one and he'd have to rebound. And he would.

In ring he's fine. He's not going to do 450s or quebradoras, but he's a good big guy with surprising quickness.

To add to that, I personally am always irrationally angry when they blast the ring with colored lights for a whole match. When they had all of The Fiend's matches in that red lighting making it so god damn hard to see, it enhanced the negative that was that shit sandwich booking. For real, especially in HD, that mood lighting always sucks. Kane. Sin Cara. The Fiend. There's a lot of times WWE gets too over bearing on the production stuff.

So you got the red Target shopping cart cell, Fiend no selling 50 curb stomps, the phony giant rubber mallet, the ring just blasted with 6,000 watt red lights to the point of making it almost unwatchable, then the DQ in a non-DQ-able match. It really was the ultimate perfect storm of shit that demonstrates the absolute worst of every aspect of what WWE can be under Vince & Dunn. That's what turned at least the online fans. That match was putrid and killed everyone involved dead for awhile. No one came out looking good. Then they just did the title switch a week or two later in Saudi. Just the worst.

[Johnny Sorrow]

17 hours ago, The Natural said:

We popped hard for Seth's RVD outfit. It not only was a nod to Van Dam and ECW as they were in Philly, it was a troll on Riddle since he's doing RVD's gimmick.

[The Natural]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

We popped hard for Seth's RVD outfit. It not only was a nod to Van Dam and ECW as they were in Philly, it was a troll on Riddle since he's doing RVD's gimmick.

Yep. Seth Rollins wears attire to mock, wearing the polka dots vs. Cody Rhodes inside Hell in a Cell at the titular 2022 event and bringing back the Shield entrance/garb vs. Roman Reigns at the 2022 Royal Rumble.