Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Robert

Members
  • Posts

    989
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Robert

  1. Definitely drunk. But that is an authentic lucha crowd. They just want interaction & ended up liking the guys more who play back at them. Gresham was there to do his super serious polite applause match like he had vs Virus in a full Arena Naucalpan & it wasn't gonna fly after 2+ hours of wrestling where the crowd had already seen 3 different wrestlers work llave style matches. It's cool for the people watching online trying to decide between ***3/4 or **** but this live crowd wanted either action or entertainment. They got neither.

    It didn't help the crowd was like 50-60 people which is an embarassment for Ledesma. The local Sundays with zero names (mostly rookies & building locals) outdraw him these days. With a crowd that small any one comment gets heard by all. I assume you mean the "you are small" comment directed at Gresham... which is factual but that's besides the point. I've never been to a show in Mexico that didn't have people yelling out insults or jokes at the wrestlers' expense. The ones who play back at them are the ones who end up the most over.

    I just re-subbed to IWTV to catch up on Lucha Memes & Lee Moriarty gets a similar reaction in Battle of Coacalco. Even the same chants. Yet by the end of round 1 he's cheered by everyone because he had a good match & didn't stop wrestling to just stare angrily at the people for daring to not sit waiting for their cue to politely clap for a reversal. Lucha Libre has changed a lot over the years but drunk fans yelling dumb shit is never going away. They existed back when Atlantis & Blue Panther were working 30 minute mat matches & they'll exist 10 years from now when Destroyers are the opening spots of matches. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but those are way more authentic lucha fans than folks who talk about how great Black Terry's punches are.

    As long as we're discussing Memes though... wow these shows are bad. I'm not done my entire catch-up but one good match per show is literally where the bar is set. Far cry from Coacalco being packed & guys busting their asses for fans who demanded good matches. Ledesma has no idea who the good young guys in Mexico are any longer & just seems to be pairing up guys randomly. Freelance vs Perro de Guerra, Perro De Guerra vs Avisman, Avisman vs Freelance & so forth. Navarro/Terry are pretty much done no matter how much you wanna sugarcoat it. They are good for one excellent match per year if someone on the other side can carry the load. The lack of environment is a big killer as you could have a decent match end up great if the crowd is screaming, doing duel chants, chanting esto es lucha... whatever. These small crowds cannot provide that atmosphere.

    The real killer for me is the awful production. Ledesma often like to brag (yes, brag) he doesn't watch his own shows & it's very evident. The guy doing the production is robbing him blind by clearly just using a program that automatically makes cuts at various intervals so it looks like real editing is being done but it's just for show. No human being is making real time calls on some of these cuts. If I wasn't a hardcore lucha fan these shows would be unwatchable. I wish someone was still doing handhelds because I'd prefer those instead of cut to corner cam shooting the opposite ringpost as two guys are brawling on the floor off camera. Que?

  2. Omega vs Vikingo on 12/4. Think I'll head down to see that live.

    CMLL counters by posting Friday's lineup hours later with Mistico vs Ultimo Guerrero as the semi-main to TJP's return in the main event with Templario vs Volador Jr. & Titan which is probably the strongest non-Hechicero match CMLL can present with their current roster.

  3. Should be another interesting week in CMLL as Bandido's Big Lucha promotion announced a combined show with ROH in September. A few of the CMLL guys actually held onto the hope ROH would beg CMLL to take them back & open relations back up. Seeing Bandido's crew working with ROH guys will certainly get more people questioning why they are sticking around if NJPW appears not be sending talent any longer, Fantasticmania is likely done for the near future & now ROH is looking elsewhere for a place to trade talent with.

    But hey they got Ice Ribbon so good job CMLL for partnering up with the 17th most popular group in Japan who run shows without a ring (I think).

  4. 71 year old Satanico is most definitely coming back to headline Arena Mexico shows in September which is great for a handful of people online who write blogs but is such an indictment of CMLL. As bad as 2005 when Mistico was starting to get red hot & they insisted on still going with Pierroth/Cien Caras matches on top at major shows.

    No doubt Averno is returning soon so they can do Mistico vs Averno & pretend it's 2006 all over again except this time instead of 13,000 fans they'll have 300ish. It's the UWA death march all over again but this time inside Arena Mexico.

    • Sad 1
  5. 8 hours ago, Casey said:

    Ethan Page's last vlog before his most recent had a part towards the end where it was around midnight and they were just about to start filming Dark.

     

    Yeah they used to film that stuff until like 2 or 3am but I believe some of the production crew eventually spoke up & in recent times they've taped more earlier in the day. You can see the difference watching Dark/Elevation these days compared to a couple months ago. Remember production has an early call time usually to get everything set up & ready to go when the "stars" are ready to perform so if they have to be there at 11am, the last thing you want is to still be working at 3am.

    The announcers do the commentary live so it really makes you appreciate a guy like Excalibur who will do the live show, his 2 hours-ish of Dark, be on the headset to help Schavonie/Wight do Elevation, then repeat that entire process immediatly. Super underappreciated part of the company (maybe not internally but definitely by fans).

    • Like 1
  6. Volador/Bandido delivered in spades. Copa Junior went loooooooooooooooooooong and had lots of action so they didn't mail it in at all. Too bad CMLL isn't offering a way to watch the show still... that main event is worth seeing.

    • Thanks 1
  7. CMLL might actually be good tonight? Only 4 matches & in theory Bandido/Volador should be great + the 12 man torneo cibernetico will be at minimum good if they just keep it moving. Women will start it off & have their usual barely passable match. Seems like an easy time for Dalys to take a loss in a meaningless opener on a show few will see. Guerrero vs NGD all depends on if they come to work or are just there to do the usual & set up a bigger match for the upcoming TV that was hinted at on Informa. You can never tell with Ultimo Guerrero & all the NGD. I don't know how 3 guys who haven't even been around 5 years are already at the point in their careers where they think they have nothing to prove but here we are.

    Copa Junior to me is a no-brainer. If Felino Jr. is supposed to be someone of note who matters - he has to win. Especially after losing his debut to Mistico fair and square. We'll know exactly where CMLL sees him b/c these matches tend to do eliminations in order of where you are slotted. If he goes out 2nd/3rd like he would as Tiger - you can write him off already as same Tiger but with new name. The winning idea is to have him go to the end on his side vs 4 or 5 others on the other side and he has to run the table like his dad did back in 1997. I'm skeptical anyone from CMLL remembers that match or cares to book something as interesting. The more obvious outcome is of course everyone goes out in order of their slots & it comes down to Angel de Oro vs either Mistico or Caristico so Terrible can run out and cheat to help Oro win as the new Ingobernables get put over (again).

    Volador Jr./Bandido should be the best match at Arena Mexico this year if they deliver. The only thing that could hold them back is the sad empty arena environment CMLL has going but if Titan/Soberano Jr. & Volador Jr./Templario could put on MOTYCs - it's hard to see why these two can't. I'm assuming Volador retains since they've pushed it so hard as a dream match with a CMLL guy vs a guy who abandoned CMLL's training system & you know CMLL loves to prove they have the best guys.

    Maybe everything will suck but people will still be talking about the show if a post-match promo airs on the big screen from Andrade challenging his former best friend to a match on 4/26 (next iPPV).

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  8. 6 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said:

    Gosh dang that was a fun two hours of pro wrestling. I enjoyed pretty much every moment of that.

    I will say, however, that it was strange  to see a basic simple transition move like a Canadian Destroyer (Code Red) be the finisher in a title match!

    Canadian Destroyer and Code Red are two different moves. Destroyer is the flipping piledriver, an impact move. Code Red is the sunset flip bomb, also an impact move but ends in sunset flip position so an immediate pinfall.
    It wasn't smooth but you can give them a pass since Silver was working on one shoulder. But I do like when guys win in different ways than just using their finishers. The Code Red spot is a regular move in Darby's repitoire so hopefully next time he hits it the viewers remember this finish and bite a bit more on the nearfall (or finish if it happens again).

  9. RIOT did their free empty arena 'Covidiotas' show yesterday. Aramis vs Iron Kid & Latigo vs Erik Ortiz are well worth watching but if you just cherry pick one match obviously you gotta go check out the Arez vs Hijo Del Vikingo main event. Just a spectacular MOTYC. I can't see anything in Mexico topping it unless Bandido takes this as a personal insult since this was supposed to be his shining week & drags Volador Jr. kicking and screaming to something wild this coming Friday. I went the full 5 if you are into the stars thing. Vikingo is Vikingo... a special talent... but Arez is just such a complete wrestler who has such underrated ring smarts and a great brain for putting stuff together. His turnaround the last couple years has been incredible and I hope it pays off with an opportunity in a big cmpany in the US some day.

    Of course don't forget the show was free because it's a donation supported show. Everyone worked free & will get paid based on the funds raised so if you watch and enjoy - even donating just $1 helps out most guys who have been out of work for a year now -> https://donadora.org/campanas/esto-es-riot

     

     

    • Like 1
  10. I saw a funny reply on twitter saying they were 'assaulting' civilians when the video makes it clear it's all in good fun & in most cases are asking the people if it's okay first. Trust me - in Mexico if you tried to do this to an unwilling person you would quickly have an incident. But social media folks love their causes so there were some real dumb takes in the replies.

  11. 38 minutes ago, Firebreaker Chip said:

    It's trivial in the scheme of it but I wish he'd had fans in the arena when he debuted in AEW

    One of my last memories pre-covid era technically officially starting was finishing up AEW TV at my friend's place & us making our plans to drive down to Rochester from Toronto to see the show where (as rumors had it) Brodie would officially be debuting in his hometown. That would have been an amazing moment for him & his family.

    #RIPBrodie

    • Like 2
  12. On 12/2/2020 at 10:53 PM, Jimbo_Tsuruta said:

    I know Mexican wrestling has been hit harder than American and Japanese by covid but if anyone has a rundown of their favourite lucha matches of 2020 that would be appreciated.

    I am keeping track of my favorite stuff here but keep in mind the empty arena stuff is not really my thing. Wrestling without fans is not pro wrestling to me.

     

    https://robviperlucha2.blogspot.com/2020/01/2020-motycs.html

    • Thanks 2
  13. Oh no they've broke you too??? I figured you were in it for the long haul.

    Back when I said the only thing two things that would kill CMLL were a natural disaster (implying Arena Mexico damage) or the family deciding to sell - I never thought it would be a natural disaster along these lines just preventing them from running shows with fans. It's hard to look down the line and see CMLL as we know it surviving into 2022. 2021 will be their first challenging year since 1993 & I don't think the current management has any interest in putting in the effort to rebuild things.

  14. On 8/4/2020 at 6:19 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

    Does anyone know the name of the blond-haired woman Shocker and Emilio Charles fight over in their 2001 feud? 

    She was never named. I believe she was a girlfriend of one of the wrestlers at the time. The idea was to build to a match where Shocker put his hair and a different girl's hair on the line vs Emilio's hair & this blonde girl's hair. In the build they did an Apolo Dantes vs Emilio Charles Jr. hair match a few weeks before at Arena Mexico. The girl who was with Shocker was in Apolo's corner & the blonde fan was front row as usual. Before the match Emilio gave the blonde flowers and for the finish he smashed the vase they were in over Apolo's head to win. Then in one of these only in pro wrestling moments... what happened was the angle got too much heat as during the post-match chaos a female fan legit attacked the blonde girl (pulled out a clump of her hair!) and had to be pulled off by police & security. This scared the shit out of both women involved in the angle, not to mention CMLL itself who didn't want this kind of thing in Arena Mexico so that was the end of that. The blonde woman wasn't around any more, not even for the year end show where Emilio lost his hair.

    • Thanks 1
  15. 5 hours ago, odessasteps said:

    I figured all the booking energy was going toward the eventual Rey Cometa heel turn. 

    The more the brothers push for it, the more it won't happen.
    Also it's back asswards. Espiritu should want to turn tecnico. As a rudo he works 2nd/3rd match. His tecnico brother works 4th/5th matches. Turn to move yourself up, now to bring your brother down.

    • Like 1
  16. This one has to be an all-time CMLL bubble moment, right? Having partners who have never even remotely teased problems before (Cavernario/Felino) suddenly attack each other out of nowhere as if they've been feuding for months on a tribute show to their deceased partner. It's quite an incredible company.

  17. 8 minutes ago, Casey said:

    Y’know, I’d be fine with three heel stables running around if the babyfaces had more than just The Elite.

    I mean the crowd loves the Lucha Bros... and the Lucha Bros wrestle as babyfaces... but they are heels because reasons.

  18. 28 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

    Yeah, that was an interesting take.

    Sorry I forget children don't understand actual wrestling terms these days.

    Replace the word 'feud' with 'tied in with'. There is zero reason Cody & Dustin should want anything to do with the Lucha Bros when they are TIED IN WITH about 15 other guys at the moment. Why do they want this match? Why does Cody want Darby Allin the week before? Shouldn't Dustin be more interested in the guy who slammed a door on his hand? One of his friends who helped set the attack up? One of the masked men who beat the shit out of him last Wednesday?

    People here saying hope we get the match beyond with babyfaces vs heels who have wronged them & Cody/Dustin are all... nah bro, we cool. Give us the Lucha Bros. Awesome.

    BTW - Penta literally leads the entire crowd in 'cero miedo' chants (a babyface move) & was sneak attacked (something heels do to get heat) by Daniels to get eliminated in the Dynamite Dozen battle royale. Hard to imagine where you could see the line blurred between face and heel.

    It's so weird AEW crazies are so sensitive about pointing out shit that makes no sense. That segment from week 3 or 4 with Cody & friends going into the box to attack/brawl with the Inner Circle was perfect understanding of babyface/heel dynamics & the hottest angle of the year on TV in North America. How we went from that to how the show ended last week & some idiot in this thread saying "Inner Circle stuff ended after Full Gear"... like what the fuck guys. There's another company out there if you wanna get treated like a moron.

  19. Cody/Dustin vs Lucha Bros on the 1/8 show sounds cool and all but why are we just throwing out these matches that could be built up and be actual feuds? As of my last count Cody is feuding with Spears, Inner Circle, Butcher, Blade, MJF, Wardlow, Dark Order. That's at least 15 guys right there. Can't we just pick one or two of them? Also, since Cody and Dustin are treated as super babyfaces, does that mean Lucha Bros are officially heels? If so, why? Crowd wants to love them & their moves always get them cheered anyways.

    Just a weird match announcement if you ask me.

  20. 3 hours ago, Oyaji said:

    That main event ending with a job tag team angle, lol. I think they needed something more impactful than Jon Silver and  Alex Reynolds joining the Dark Order though it was cool to see the entire Elite try to put them over.

    If everyone is a star, nobody is a star.

    I think it's very nice guys like Omega/Bucks/Cody wanna help everyone of their buddies out & make everyone feel important but that's not how pro wrestling works. When pro wrestling is working well you have either a big star like Hogan/Cena or a group of top guys who are clearly positioned as head and shoulders above the rest. Kenny should not be going 50/50 and needing 15 minutes to beat Kip Sabian. Bucks should not be losing tag feuds to Lucha Bros, LAX, SCU & presumably next to the Dark Order. Cody is currently elevating MJF yet he's also fucking around with Butcher, Blade, Darby & already went through the Spears nonsense. The funny thing is the example is right there in front of them - Moxley. He's a star. He gave Janela a bit but beat him quite decisively. Same thing with Darby. Jericho is doing a masterful job at making people feel important by giving them a little but still you never leave the match/angle/feud thinking they are completely on his level. The Omega/Bucks/Cody group have not mastered that yet. They end up bringing themselves down to the level of the guys they think they are elevating.

    You can't make everyone all at once & you can't waste valuable TV time on nonsense like this Brandi thing. She's great on the eyes but the entire concept of another group recruiting people is superfluous.

    I really liked the show even with the cold angle at the end. Hopefully this break gives everyone a chance to step back and re-examine what's going on here. I'm all for the group-think instead of a one man Vince McMahon's way or the highway product but there definitely needs to be one person at the top willing to tell people 'no' for the betterment of the company.

    • Like 4
  21. On 12/10/2019 at 8:35 PM, clintthecrippler said:

    Mascaras worked a show around this time last year where he legitimately needed someone to hold his hand while he climbed the top rope for his dive. 

    He also works with his entire body covered most of the time because he has open sores all over like many 70+ year olds tend to have. Still won't do a job though because "it wouldn't be realistic".

    • Haha 2
×
×
  • Create New...