SorceressKnight

Fandom has its assholes in every group. To say that "well, THOSE fans are assholes, but not us!" is cheap bullshit. I'm sure the fans of Terrace House are saying "well, it couldn't possibly be us too, it was probably those sick 'rasslin fans who did it!" and saying they're innocent of this too. If there's some people who are fuckheads pulling this shit and crossing the line into flat-out bullying, then all of them need to be called out on it...and that includes the fans on this side.

EDIT: Maybe it's harsh, but this time it is hard not to when the fans cyberbullied a wrestler into death. <Tried to delete>.

I agree that there's a vocal minority and a silent majority of good people. But at the same time, the only way evil exists is for good people to do nothing.

If you wonder why I blame the fans...unfortunately, this will go down as Exhibit A. There is no excuse- no "but it was REALLY the big mean promoters who did it", no "but the customer is always right!", nothing around it.

Wow...it's surprising. It took me 17 years of playing EWR to finally find out today it's a broken piece of shit that openly cheats at the war system. Playing a 2013-styled UWF/AWF/WXO styled "built around castoffs" to try and rebuild it to a modern promotion slowly but surely. I get up to National...yay! And I'm immediately in a war with AAA, CMLL, and ROH...boo. Not a problem- I knew I'd get glommed in War because I had so many legends with weak stats vs. wrestlers who could work. My first War week I get hit hard. I go through for a rebuild, and I get to War level again...I lose to CMLL in talent [beat them in draw], and lose to ROH in draw/talent. The problem there: In between that, I cheated myself, using Arsenic to turn five Non-Wrestlers who'd never wrestle again to have straight 100's in their stats (so that when the algorithm to determine "draw value" and "talent" came into play", I wouldn't lose)...and yet somehow, I still did. It wasn't even Non-Wrestler vs. Wrestler, because ROH's top five had two Non-Wrestlers too.

Having the "but the Western Conference has problems- get rid of the divisions to take the Eastern Conference's advantage away!" thing may have some claims, but at the same time...as if the end result of a division-free NHL wouldn't just be 'okay, if divisions are gone, then the Western Conference as a whole is also gone." Maybe Nashville, Chicago, Dallas, and Minnesota would all survive in their cities (being close enough to the Eastern Conference teams), but that's still 12 teams likely moved to Eastern cities.

Honestly, I dislike the 24-team playoff format, but for an opposite reason: This is one of those things that is guaranteed to not end well. Everyone who knows hockey by now knows the facts of life: In playoff hockey, the most important (and arguably, ONLY important) factor is "who's goalie caught fire." MAYBE who has home ice can also work, but if home ice won't be a factor in this tournament, it's pretty much down to "which goalie can stand on his head for the longest time." And every team has been out of play for two months, which means the teams in the play-in rounds not only get a huge advantage over the best 8 teams in the league...but it's such a huge advantage that you can argue going "1 v 12, 2 v 11, 3 v 10, 4 v 9, winners face 5-8" is a fairer advantage than going 5-12/6-11/7-10/8-9, winners face 1-4." Hell, considering that factor, if you're already going to do something out there to give a NHL playoffs, I'd say go all-out in the weirdness: 32 team playoffs, seeded 1-32. The NHL matches go from St.Louis vs. Detroit and go from there. Since Seattle doesn't exist until next season so there's not 32 teams yet....As the President's Trophy winners, Boston faces the AHL's Milwaukee Admirals (the team in the AHL with the highest point total when the AHL suspended their season.) It's just as out there as a 24-team playoff, especially with the "an AHL team makes the Stanley Cup Playoffs", but at least this way every team gets to get back on the ice at the same time.

Even if there are no ballots, the same point stands. There are some things where, in all likeliness, if you have this stat to your credit, there's no doubt you're worthy for the Hall of Fame, and barring some huge circumstance, you will probably eventually get in. Plus, statistically, the "you got a World Title match at Wrestlemania" is one of those stats that makes someone a no doubt about it Hall of Famer in WWE. Going to the stats for that (recognizing World Title as "any World Championship recognized by WWE- either the WWF World, or WWE/WHC/ECW, or WWE/Universal): 21 people who have fought for a World Title at Wrestlemania are in the WWE Hall of Fame: Hogan, Andre, Savage, DiBiase, Warrior, Slaughter, Flair, Yokozuna, Bret Hart, Diesel, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, JBL, Batista, Goldberg, Booker T, Edge, 17 wrestlers are active performers who we can already safely assume are no doubt about it Hall of Famers when they eventually retire: Undertaker, The Rock, Big Show, Triple H, Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Randy Orton, The Miz, Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Bray Wyatt, AJ Styles, Kofi Kingston, Kane, Rey Mysterio, Sheamus, Three wrestlers are early enough in their career that it can be considered too soon to tell either way: Shinsuke Nakamura, Drew McIntyre, and Braun Strowman. Two wrestlers are no longer active WWE performers, but seem like a HOF induction is likely inevitable to eventually occur: Chris Jericho and CM Punk. One wrestler, we all know is never happening in a million years: Chris Benoit. Six wrestlers fought for a World Title and are unknown odds-wise of induction: King Kong Bundy, Lex Luger, Sid, Chavo Guerrero, Alberto Del Rio, Jack Swagger That would say my original claim is...pretty sound that "getting the World Title match at Wrestlemania will likely make you a no doubt about it WWE Hall of Famer."

In this, that needs to be said- the "Owen's blood was still in the ring" thing was disproven years ago, and there was proof years before that the blood on the canvas was the stage blood from the Brood's bloodbath. The Bloodbath happened on Sunday Night Heat on the pre-show, and the same bloodstain everyone claims was Owen's blood on the canvas was seen on the mat during the matches that happened before Owen's fall occurred. It wasn't his blood. Even with that, it's more of a question mark to do the angle. The Blue Blazer angle had nothing to do with taking cheapshots at WCW...unless you go as far as claiming "drink your milk, do your homework, etc." was a parody of Hulk Hogan, which is tenuous in itself. Having Owen go up there to take a jab at Sting's entrances made absolutely no sense, even in context. Even WORSE than that: what DID make sense in context? The whole crux of the Blue Blazer gimmick was "Owen Hart is obviously the Blue Blazer, but he keeps denying it left and right and having random schmoes pretend to be the Blue Blazer when he's around to prove they're two different people." That makes the Owen fall even more blatant, since there was an obvious out if you absolutely had to do the segment and Owen was uncomfortable with doing it: Have a trained stuntman come in, do the descend from the rafters, then fall onto a crashpad (which they had used for things like the Hawk suicide angle a few months before). The stuntman does the fall, then Owen shows up from underneath the pad in the Blazer outfit none the worse for wear. Same exact benefit of the segment, no one dies, and it actually works better for the storyline.

And my answer to that is...we have to define which Hall of Fame we're talking about here (similar to the Owen instance this week where the point is "Martha/the family won't allow WWE to put him in the WWE Hall of Fame, but when Owen was put in the Tragos/Thesz Hall of Fame, she happily allowed it and showed up to honor him.) The WWE Hall of Fame is what I'm talking about here- and since the WWE Hall of Fame is mostly built on kayfabe as opposed to any quality control to speak of? Yes. In the WWE Hall of Fame, if you had wrestled for the World Title at Wrestlemania, that's a "you're a no doubt about it WWE Hall of Famer" honor. To be honest, if you're at the level to fight for the World Title at Wrestlemania, you probably were already there anyway and this puts you over the top. So yes. Del Rio? First-ballot by WWE standards. Miz? First-ballot by WWE standards. JBL? He's already been announced as a 2020 Hall of Famer whenever we get the induction ceremony, so he's not even an argument he's a Hall of Famer. Jack Swagger? First-ballot by WWE standards. Same token- being a World Champion in a WWE- accepted promotion, same thing- that automatically makes you first-ballot for the WWE Hall of Fame (barring a unforeseen circumstance like the Benoit murders, which might take Del Rio out due to recent news, to be fair.) And that- no matter who else you claim for a World Champion, I would say "yes, they absolutely are". I don't care- David Arquette? The WWE Hall of Fame has a celebrity wing, and he'd deserve to be in that wing a damn sight better than someone like Kid Rock or Drew Carey would. Vince Russo? If they ever induct backstage workers like Warrior really wanted for the Warrior Award, do it.

Again, it's the same point there for the AEW squash. Once again, Pineapple Pete is proof that AEW's squashes are broken. Pete got a traditional squash match with Jericho, but Jericho put him over on commentary for weeks going up to that and made people want to see his squash. Other AEW workers give lots of offense to their jobbers and let them get their shit in, but you barely know who they are by the end of the weak. Who REALLY did better in making their jobber look great? Spears got his chances to get over in WWE, and it didn't work simply because...well, Tye Dillinger wasn't exactly good enough to truly get over. NXT made him work as a bit of a threat, but on the main roster it was...just a guy who had a fun "10!" chant and lost its steam quickly. If the Chris Hero or Zack Ryder examples were people who'd be bad if AEW brought him in- well, Spears was probably the WORSE version of Zack Ryder, who wasn't even good enough to have a modicum of staying power. Similarly, Harper was tried as a singles monster, given the IC Title, given a lot of time to be a threat with the Wyatts. The only time that WWE really cut his legs out from under him was if you're one of the people claiming "bu-but Luke Harper really tied the Orton/Wyatt feud together, he should be in their Mania match as well!", and that was "...really. Really? REALLY? He was the lackey for the Wyatts. He may have had some okay facials during the Orton/Wyatt storyline...but are you fucking kidding me? You want to give him a WORLD TITLE MATCH, at WRESTLEMANIA, for that alone? Being in a World Title match at Wrestlemania is one of those no doubt about it, You got this thing then you are instantly a first-ballot Hall of Famer, and you want to give that to Harper for a couple nice facial expressions? If Erick Rowan was in the same position you never would have said that same claim and you know it!" Spears was literally at Ryder's level (goofy lowcard babyface with a fun catchphrase), and Brodie is literally at Hero's level (indie darling who was a non-factor in the WWE but still really, really respected as a indie superstar.) And tell the truth, you can make the case Ryder was a better Tye Dillinger than Tye Dillinger was (Ryder had been able to reach heights far higher than Spears ever did in the role, and Ryder was able to remain an effective puppy for heels to kick for a decade and always show up to get a crowd reaction), and Chris Hero's a better Brodie Lee than Brodie Lee was (Brodie Lee wasn't bad on the indies, but he never reached the same level of indie success Chris Hero did). As far as the shallow roster...that's some of the same problem: The midcard is not getting opportunities because AEW thinks "pretty movez and get your shit in" is more important than getting fans to take notice of them...which is why you need people like that, in the midcard, getting chances to rise the ranks organically.

First off, the thing to remember is- the amount of smarks is very small. And the amount of smarks who heard Jericho's podcasts with Moxley/Revival/etc., smaller still. The silent majority is a thing- the amount of "children that believe it's real" is much higher than you think. There is something to be said with "if you're immediately throwing a Tye Dillinger or a Luke Harper from WWE into the AEW main event scene, you're not making Spears/Brodie look like a main eventer that WWE dropped the ball on immediately, you're just making AEW's own homegrowns look bad." If you're one of those "children who believe it's real", then you aren't raising Shawn Spears or Brodie Lee up to the main event level immediately, you're just dropping the AEW roster down to the level Dillinger or Harper were perceived as. If AEW has a failing right now, the biggest failing they have would be a complete unwillingness to accept that and booking the show like "Well, yes, Kenny Omega was considered the best wrestler in the world by many fans for the last few years...but make no mistake, Sonny Kiss could be seen as being just as good as Omega or better if only a big mean promoter just BELIEVED IN HIM! Well, WE believe in him, and so we're going to give Sonny Kiss the chance to prove he's just as good as Omega!" On paper, it seems to have a case- but in practice: No, you're not rising Sonny Kiss up to Kenny Omega's level, you're dropping Omega down to Sonny Kiss's level. But let's argue for a second you're right. Literally every fan in the whole wide world is aware that Shawn Spears and Brodie Lee are so talented and they deserved to win the World Title at Wrestlemania by fiat, and it's all the fault of that big mean Vince McMahon being soooo mean to them and holding them back because he's mean. Maybe Brodie Lee was very talented before WWE, was more talented than his push showed in WWE, and when he left WWE was going to probably do very good things because he was talented. EVEN THEN, it doesn't change that pro wrestling is a zero-sum game. One person wins, one person loses. For one person to succeed, another person must agree to fail. There is a vicious cycle in pushes like this. When a company like AEW takes a downtrodden former WWE lowcarder who could be bigger than Rock and Austin combined, they just needed a chance, honest- and they turn around and give that WWE guy a main event chance, then it sounds beautiful and noble and everything that AEW was built around... ...until you remember that the very act of giving that WWE lowcarder that chance in the AEW main event picture is not just GIVING a main event opportunity to the WWE lowcarder, it's also TAKING AN OPPORTUNITY AWAY from one of AEW's homegrown lowcarders/midcarders to potentially be tried in the main event. This was why TNA was so mocked and failed for their reliance on WWE castoffs: There's nothing wrong with signing a guy from the WWE, but TNA signed so many of them that eventually, all of the really good TNA homegrowns never got their chance at the limelight. The TNA roster became the underutilized midcard/lowercarders, and eventually, by TNA giving all the WWE castoffs the chance to make WWE live to regret the day they let them walk away, all of their good homegrowns left TNA and made TNA live to regret it. Much like there must always be a lich king, there must always be an underutilized downtrodden lowcarder. By giving a lowcard WWE guy a chance to be an AEW main eventer, you're just making an AEW midcarder/lowcarder the downtrodden lowcarder who just needs a chance.

Same problem: Enforcers are an arms race., and using 80s hockey for the same point, there's a difference between "Wayne Gretzky with the Oilers" and "the Norris Division being ECW on Ice." If a superstar is the franchise, they need an enforcer to make sure they can do their job...so other teams need an enforcer who can take on your enforcer and won't be scared of him, and so now you need two enforcers so you can counter their guy, and then they get two, and so on and so on until you get those 1990s Heat/Knicks series that were closer to rugby than basketball.

That would make sense in theory, but you also have to understand it in context to understand why Jordan could get away with it even then. In context, during the 70s and 80s in basketball, there was a mentality like in hockey to the NBA that's vanished in the current era of the game as it's become more athletic and less violent- where much like in hockey, teams with a superstar felt the need to keep an enforcer on the roster. Much like with the hockey role, the same rule was there: You go after our star, he's going after you. Jordan wasn't bullying Oakley because he couldn't get away with it, Jordan didn't bully Oakley because Oakley's whole job with the Bulls was being Jordan's enforcer, and Oakley was very, very good in the role (indeed, all signs say that Oakley was so good as the enforcer he still stays as Jordan's enforcer in real life to this day.) That likely also played a role in why Cartwright got tested and Jordan didn't do anything afterwards- in all likeliness, it was also making it clear "You're aware of your job here- someone touches me, you're going after them, right?"

Having said that, though, The Revolt have a big difference there, since there's also the "The Young Bucks and Revival have made it clear for years they badly want to feud with each other- and considering The Elite are accepted as the core heroes in AEW, that would assume that AEW fans would be hip enough to boo The Revolt, simply because it'd be a means to an end for Young Bucks/Revolt to happen. The Revolt may get cheered after the feud, but in all likeliness fans play along for the beginning of their run (and if The Revival are good, they can keep being booed since then.) Honestly, though, that's kind of a difference, though: AEW's failing is that they do kind of do the same thing TNA does as well. Since AEW formed, four people jumped from WWE to AEW so far, and all four walked right into a big main event spot. It is pretty varied given the examples there. Jon Moxley was a top star for WWE, and honestly AEW would be fools not to make the guy an immediate main eventer. Matt Hardy was a tag team guy/midcarder in WWE, but he was at least a main eventer when he was in TNA and is a textbook example of "he's more valuable outside of WWE than inside the WWE". In both cases, it makes sense to make them instant main eventers in AEW. There's a world of difference between a Jon Moxley or a Matt Hardy, though, and a Shawn Spears or a Brodie Lee. Shawn Spears was a kind of comedic opening match guy and borderline jobber, and Brodie Lee was a lackey/tag team guy in a team that was nowhere near as legendary as the Hardyz. Spears was weighed, measured, and found wanting as a top star and fell down to his level of competence as "he's a perfectly acceptable lowercard hand", but Brodie Lee is exactly the type of thing everyone mocked TNA for. Even if Brodie Lee is very talented and a good performer, on a logical scale, his push is the first thing AEW has done that actively makes AEW look small-time:

But how would Danny Thomas know the Rock and Roll Express?

A $50 suit? Who won the lottery? Most of our rich snobs have to wear sweatervests and like it.

Adding my island for possible friends/visitors (though since I was lazy enough to not notice, it may say something on how likely I am to show up.) Friend code is SW-5045-0634-3525 .

I don't think that happens in 1978, honestly. Given how Moolah's usually a villain and how the Lauper feud went, it seems more likely than it looks the storyline in that case goes: Moolah loses the WWF Women's Title to Kaufman, Kaufman brings it with him to his performances and defends it, and eventually the prettiest girl in Moolah's stable beats Kaufman and gets pushed. Even if the "Moolah's title was still technically the NWA Women's Title and presumably the NWA would have never stood for that", it likely "just" goes to the Lauper angle: Kaufman manages Moolah vs. the prettiest girl in Moolah's stable, and the woman in question goes over.

If Jericho doesn't sign? Honestly, it seems pretty likely that AEW doesn't have as successful a rollout they did have. The Elite's mostly devolving to "just some guys" on the show kind of shows the problem with AEW's roster otherwise: the Elite were basically cult heroes to even die-hard wrestling fans, let alone outside the wrestling bubble. It ended up similar to why Herb Abrams had to sign Andre the Giant, even if he couldn't wrestle anymore in a UWF match and had no purpose in a non-wrestling role...but he could go to sponsors/cable networks and say "I have a wrestling promotion, and I have ANDRE THE GIANT!" Jericho was more important as the "we have a wrestling promotion, and we have CHRIS JERICHO" person than anything he did in the ring...and even with hindsight being 20/20, AEW would have a slightly arrested development without Jericho. Without Jericho, AEW won't have their big draw until Moxley shows up in May...and him showing up at the end of May probably kicks them out of pilot season and may have held back the TNT deal for a year.

It's weird, but even then it didn't seem impossible that Russo could have been booking during the closing as well. There was some incredibly stupid stuff that happened in the dying days (Rick Steiner attacking himself, for example), but all in all the late WCW did have a lot of things you could compare to TNA in 2009 before Hogan/Bischoff took over. Considering that TNA in 2009 was the one conclusive time when we know "this is what Vince Russo shows would look like when he's finished up the "midcard rises up and takes out the old guard in the main event" storyline, seen that to completion, and now he can actually play with the new world he's thrown everything out the window in an attempt to make", that might point to something as well. And for @daveprazak from all claims, Burke is apparently the woman who led the choir who sang "Judas" for Jericho at one of the AEW PPVs...which kind of makes that claim about as tenuous a link to wrestling as Rock movies or Jesse Ventura's political career. I mean, what happened was a bad thing by all means, but it's not like the person was a wrestler or had any interest in wrestling...it was a singer who sang once for an entrance at a AEW pay-per-view and likely was never going to be seen as a major part of a wrestling show again.

Well, if they bring the guy in for his Omega match- they did the Rick and Morty thing for Adult Swim, just rename the guy Alan Faster than the Speed of Love.

Draw value is a very important thing in getting these wrestlers. Again, most super-casual fans don't know who's still got it or who doesn't, and just pops for names that they recognize. The "uh...he still wrestles" or "what else you got?" is less likely to happen from a sponsor or cable network. What's more likely is an example like ESPN's story- they locked up AWA and had went over "okay, here's all the wrestlers the AWA is giving us. We get Baron von Raschke, Nick Bockwinkel, Greg Gagne, Sgt. Slaughter..." with a board member yelping for joy "WE GOT SLAUGHTER????", before everyone else looked at him and he muttered "...uh, my kids watch it." In 1989-90, saying "We have a wrestling promotion, and we have ANDRE THE GIANT" is enough to get a promotion excited.

Honestly, it does make some sense if you think about it because in the last few weeks, AEW has shown with two jobbers the real story of how to make this work. Kenny Omega gave Alan Eagles a lot of offense in his jobber squash. On paper, it was a good match with a man many consider the best wrestler in the world to make Eagles look good. A few weeks later, people barely remember the name "Alan Eagles", referring to him as "the jobber in the Omega match" more than anything. Sugar Dunkerton was given a nickname of "Pineapple Pete" by Chris Jericho, Jericho's been mocking him for weeks now. Next week, we're getting Jericho vs. Pineapple Pete. AEW fans are excited by this development, excited by the match, and it's gotten Dunkerton over enough he's probably getting a contract out of this when all is said and done. Which one really worked better?

I think it was the latter- whether Messiah did or Black just thought he did is a question.