Fallacy!
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Posts posted by Fallacy!
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Is it too late for a Teddy Hart run in WWE? I've been catching up on MLW lately and he's been on fire.
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I think you need to look at last night's debuts in the context of the reports that WWE's current mandate is essentially to get ratings up however they can before the FOX deal begins.
WWE might be trying to go back to the "anything can happen in the WOOOORLD WRESTLING FEDERATIONNNNNN" mantra of - hey, you can't miss an episode of RAW. Doesn't matter if it's in New York City or Bumfuck, Louisiana, something special might happen that you're going to be hearing about tomorrow.
Obviously, a hot crowd is preferable, but at the end of the day with solid booking (which is a big question mark) it's not going to matter for any of these guys in the long run. They all looked strong and went over pretty prominent opponents.
I do think WWE's biggest problem creatively with these NXT guys is being victims of their own echo chamber. Creative/HHH/whoever is a little too invested in these guys and gals to be able to put themselves in the shoes of the audience, many of whom need, at the very least, a crash course on who these guys are before they just throw them on TV.
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I don't see the issue with Dave calling AEW the No. 2 company. I liken it to college football preseason top 25 rankings. Oklahoma or whoever might come into the season ranked No. 1, but that could change once the games start. At this point, given the money they're throwing around, plans for TV they're allegedly making, etc. I don't think it's outrageous to call them No. 2 behind WWE.
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29 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:
Conrad runs a mortgage business. So, legal loan sharking.
He's definitely upper class, but I have no idea if he's rich or RICH
I doubt Flair would have let him hang around to begin with if he wasn't RICH rich.
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Of note is that Starrcast is also advertising Arn Anderson and Shane Helms, both of whom are WWE employees.
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10 minutes ago, RIPPA said:
Okay - I am genuinely curious
Conrad is claiming that Starrcast is a separate entity from AEW (this is in the SI article announcing Taker) so I will take that at face value to ask this question
How is/would Starrcast be able to afford all the people they have? Do they have amazing sponsorship deals?
Since I have never listened to a single podcast affiliated with them ever I legit don't know but when Meltzer is saying Taker's rate is $25K a hour - they have to have a lot of money from somewhere????
(I assume Ric Flair is giving his son-in-law a deal)
Well, Conrad's day job is a loan shark. He strikes me as the kind of guy who has a lot of money, and also knows how to get his hands on a lot of money quickly.
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All this time we thought it was WWE that kept dusting Undertaker off and forcing him to trot out there every Wrestlemania, maybe it was the other way around.
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Does seem like a work, especially after the "father in law" line to HHH last night.
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21 minutes ago, Edwin said:
And this is the type of things they should try to avoid.
Catcalling WWE worked out so well for TNA, though.
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6 hours ago, Thibs said:
Little off topic but has anyone seen the Fyre music festival documentary on either Netflix or Hulu?
Cody ending up as the Billy McFarland would bring the
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Fans show up for Double or Nothing, only to realize it's being held at the Park MGM, not MGM Grand.
Both MGM hotels are overbooked however, so AEW fans who purchased a travel package will be taken by bus down the street to stay at the Circus Circus.
Cody and the Bucks couldn't get a ring set up in time, so a moon bounce house has been erected inside the Park MGM theater.
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Hate that stoppage. Let him go out fighting.
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I can't wait for The Revival's "THE SUITS UP NORTH DON'T APPRECIATE REAL 'RASSLIN" promo on the debut episode of AEW.
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6 hours ago, MORELOCK said:
I think you're making a big jump from "there will be rankings" to "every single match will be based only on rankings and no other matches will be possible."
Well if we're talking about rankings, standings, and win-loss records (these are all Cody's words) - what sense would it make to have these and then not abide by them in terms of matchmaking? That's usually how stuff like this falls apart in wrestling.
I'm not holding them to any of this, just spitballing about it because it's something they put out there in public. We'll see how it plays out, or if they end up doing it at all.
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5 hours ago, Raziel said:
Don't hate on rankings. JCP got a lot of milage with Flair dening Funk a title shot because Funk wasn't ranked, then Funk got pissed and destroyed Steamboat because Funk finally got ranked 10 and he wanted Flair, so he nuked the #1 contender to get there.
I get the whole "It can't just be 'I want the belt"" mentality, because you can do that boring, which is what Impact's problem is. At the same time, yeah, focusing on winning/belts/getting paid is the basis of all sports because if you're not trying to win and get more money and belts, then what the fuck are you actually doing this shit for? Actors act to get money and awards. Athletes compete to win/win titles/get paid. It's possible, just needs to be entertaining.
I'm right there with you in terms of making winning/belts important, but rankings, top 10, win-loss records, etc. is where I start to lose interest. There's a way to make that stuff meaningful while still intertwining good storytelling. How does 1-2-3 Kid ever get in the ring with Razor Ramon if we're matchmaking a fake sport based on fake rankings?
My completely untested theory on wrestling in 2019 is that the more reality, the better. Not necessarily presenting it as "real" because everyone knows it's not, but to give us reality in storylines. Wrestling fans are more knowledgeable than ever about what goes on backstage and wrestling is probably the only entertainment medium where the drama that plays out behind the scenes is usually more interesting than what you see on the screen. AEW is such a perfect opportunity to play out something like that because they're kind of already doing it. Part of what makes BTE so cool is that you get a peek into glimpses of their real life, or at least you feel like you are. The Kenny-Cody storyline was great because it was totally believable that there could be friction with those two guys with Cody coming in and quickly assuming a leadership role.
I guess at the end of the day, my point is that I hope they don't forget what got them to the dance. Tony Khan seems really, really invested in this "real sport" concept and that's cool, but it feels like it flies in the face of everything The Elite did to gain their notoriety.
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1 hour ago, Craig H said:
People have already explained how that type of build would work, which is looking at New Japan where wins and losses matter or who you pin in tag matches matter. It doesn't have to be some kind of hardcore rankings type of thing. They can have rankings, but it doesn't mean they would or should stick to them. Shit, UFC has rankings too and the #1 contender isn't always the person ranked #1 in that division. Explaining how and why someone deserves a title shot becomes part of promos or what the announcing says and goes a long way beyond what WWE is doing where there's no rhyme or reason to anything.
Another big part to it is avoiding matches between people feuding and saving that shit for bigger PPV type shows or an episode of TV promoted weeks in advance. You're basically looking at some kind of hybrid between NXT and NJPW and that can work or at least I'm willing to believe that can work before saying it has no chance of working.
There's a lot of wiggle room between "wins and losses matter" and "we're going to have win-loss records and top 10 rankings and document every result every wrestler achieves." Hopefully they find a happy middle ground between those two, but if it veers more toward the latter, I think it's going to be a problem.
I don't really care how New Japan does it. American fans aren't conditioned to that and I think the cat is too far out of the bag on 'rasslin being fake in America for that kind of promotion to ever work on a mainstream level, and if AEW is presumably/hopefully/possibly/maybe getting a major TV deal, they're going to have to bring more to the table than "we're a bunch of wrestlers who wrestle because we love to wrestle and want to see who the best wrestler is."
And maybe they will. I mean, it's still all in its infancy, and they could very easily drop all this once they get a TV deal and find out what that network expects. Who knows. My opinion is just that considering what they've built their cult following on, switching gears to "we're real sports!" seems foolish.
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The "pure sports build" for AEW is just a failure waiting to happen. These guys built their popularity largely off the backs of their quirky Being The Elite skits, catering to a fanbase that carries a deep appreciation for Joey Ryan's dick flip. Now they're going to hit the big time and try to become wrestling's version of UFC?
Judging from Tony Khan's interview with X-Pac though, I get the sense that the ranking/win-loss record mumbo jumbo is pretty much solely coming from him. His fondest memories of wrestling seem to be J-Cup matches between Benoit and Jericho rather than compelling characters/stories.
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I think it's more a thorn in the side of Hunter and Stephanie than it is for Vince. He's won his wars, and he has this thing ready to be served up on a silver platter for them to continue world domination, and now they have to deal with this shit.
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After listening to Tony Khan’s interview on X-Pac’s podcast I realized that AEW is going to let us bear witness to what happens when a WON Board poster gets a blank check to run a wrestling company.
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46 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:
Again, Cody and The Bucks are executive vice presidents in the company. Unless they hire a woman as a EVP, it's not a same spot thing.
No women EVPs? That doesn't sound very "equal."
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Would love to know which woman besides Brandi herself will make anything comparable to Jericho, the Bucks and Cody.
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1 hour ago, cubbymark said:
If the above is true, it could be TBS. There's no way AEW is going to be on TNT on Tuesdays because of their NBA deal.
Isn't Thursday the big NBA on TNT night?
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Getting Jericho is definitely yuge. Khan must be throwing around some serious money.
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The Bullet Club opposes Gun Violence. That's beautiful.
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This feels like a Trump rally. "We're going to have the best wrestlers, and pay the most money, and have a ton of fun, and everyone is going to be happy, and we've got friends in China who are going to help us!"
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HELL IN A CELL XIV - 6/5/2022
in WWE PROGRAMMING
Posted
Hell of a Ricky Morton impersonation from Cody tonight. It's a shame he did all that in front of a crowd that primarily only wanted to see someone get thrown through a table.