[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

@NoFistsJustFlips

You have made the same overarching point, but without really offering any kind of evidential base at any stage. You stated that they clearly introduced the US Title as below the IC Title, but I've literally YouTubed Stephanie McMahon introduce the Title on Smackdown and it didn't happen. I doubt, given the brand vs brand storyline at the time, Michael Cole really gave some soliloquy about how the US Title was lesser than the IC Title - but you have said som kind of explanation happened but instead of demonstrating that you've instead moved on to the Honky Tonk Man (whose reign, along with Santino's 2nd IC run & the Honkameter, maybe isn't exactly the strong argument in your favour you seem to think it is, but that's subjectivity for you I guess). Who is really moving the goalposts here?  Critiquing your arguments is not hand-waving them, pretty much the opposite infact. The truth is the longest US Title run is almost 550 days, and maybe Lex Luger will eventually get referenced. It's a higher threshold.

Look I know you're not exactly new around here, but there are levels to that, and levels above me of course, but traditionally DVDVR hasn't been a place where we take the opinions of RSPWFAQ neckbeards particularly seriously - infact if anything we have looked for reasons to believe the opposite. It was you who said 'ppl on the internet said there were too any belts during the Invasion era', and effectively linked that to what most people watching wrestling on TV think today. That was a poor rhetorical move (and one that aligns very well with my point about a certain type of wrestling fan craving a certain sense of structure), though again one without a real evidential base (like you remember some people saying particular stuff on the internet, stuff you agree with, when in reality lots of people are saying lots of different things on the internet and you're in no position to really draw any firm unbiased analytical conclusions). Truthfully, what I am seeing here is an inability to actually self-examine with regards to why you think the things you do, and how you filter information in support of that. If you can't see that, well that's a pity but I suspect others can.

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

8 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is seemingly becoming a very circular discussion because I list out reasons and supporting thoughts and you just go nuu uhhh.

The bolded above again is apples to oranges. The IC Title has always clearly been the most important non world title in WWE. They have always given that heightened importance over any other non-world title. So there was a time that existed (ten years after the US title debuted) that both were secondary titles under the same unified brand that you're referencing... it was never in doubt the IC Title was always more important than the US Title. Again this doesn't even fit what the original argument was about. Because they explained the purpose of The US Title and where it lied in the hierarchy when it debuted, ten years before the time frame you're asking about.

As for the second part, maybe it's an age thing. I was online during the Invasion. It was absolutely the number two complaint behind WWE not securing the biggest WCW stars for the Invasion. It got railed against all the time at the time. If you're younger and didn't live through that period online I could see how that could be in doubt for you. But if you visited any message boards in 2001 it was a consistent source of complaint and frustration.

The word seemingly is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. You have gone from dismissing views of AEW belt hierarchy as subjective, to essentially basing objectivity over some moment you can't really reference where 'they' seemingly made it clear that the US Title was below the IC Title in importance, and by implication you are arguing that most viewers permanently internalised this magical moment.....somehow even the kids who would have been too young to have even watched that. This is a ludicrous argument. The truth is that there is no strict hierarchy, you have a subjective opinion about it. That's it.

And now we're talking about internet fans from the early 2000s as somehow representative of the casual fan. Wow. Yes I was there. This is Hyatte. I member.
 

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

24 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I thunk ultimately this is an agree to disagree discussion. Because your viewpoint is that most viewers don't care about that kind of thing. And my viewpoint is that they do. Everyone pretty much universally pans the Invasion angle and one of the biggest complaints is that there were too many belts. There's actually more titles in AEW & ROH right now than there was in 2001 for WWE & WCW. That's crazy. But again no disrespect meant if you don't agree. We just have two different starting points for what we think the audience cares about.

It is to some extent, but I don't really have to prove a negative. You haven't really evidenced your position in any way. And I wasn't talking about the Euro Title, I was talking about the considerable period where both IC and US Titles existed without a brand-split.

'One of the biggest complaints' is a slightly vague claim, but it certainly isn't the biggest complaint about the Invasion and tbh I don't think it's even top 3.

[All-Purpose Health and Fitness Thread]

If you have cable access, you might want to consider using a rope variation.

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

23 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

1) Christian could have been carrying around any title. There's nothing about the story that dictated Luchasaurus needed to win the TNT belt for Christian to walk around with. You're missing the point that literally any belt could have been put into that story and nothing changes.

2) I don't understand your Samoa Joe mention here. But since your brought him up, his reign ended by voluntary forfeit. Couldn't he have done the voluntary forfeit sooner and ROH TV Title be the belt chosen to do the Christian story?

3) How is The International Title being number 3 at the start obvious? How is it being the number 2 title now obvious? None of that is obvious. It's a matter of opinion because AEW has never defined what title is where in a hierarchy. Well Mox & OC main evented All Out with it you might say. Ok. Christian & Darby main evented Wrestle Dream with the TNT Title. It's not at all clear or obvious what belt is considered number 2 by AEW themselves.

1) I haven't missed that point at all. But the International Title was in another program so this was the one available, plus he was in a program with Darby who has a particular history with the TNT Title and indeed was the TNT Champion that Luchasaurus Killswitch beat (Actually, I got that bit wrong, he beat Wardlow. Yeah they changed it too much over that period lol - though they did end up feuding with Darbs again). As I have said, it added an amusing wrinkle to Christian's character at a point when the Patriachy wasn't fully formed.

2) No his TNT reign didn't end that way, and no the ROH TV couldn't have been used for the Christian story for the reasons above.

3) Again, I understand why some people might benefit from this kind of clarity but I honestly don't think the average viewer particularly craves it. I don't think viewers had a tremendous issue when there was no brand-split in WWE and two midcard titles - often one or more of those titles wasn't especially well booked, but the existence of two midcard titles wasn't really a problem. 

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

8 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

1) Christian has only had the TNT title like two months now. Don't get confused and lump Luchasaurus' reign as his lol

2) To emphasize the point a bit, what would have changed if the titles were swapped? Could Christian's story been the same with the International Title? 

1) The lol makes the point that Christian walking around with the belt added an extra wrinkle to his character.

2) Samoa Joe couldn't have: he was the King of Television remember. And no OC couldn't have told the same story with the TNT Title because he took what was the obvious No. 3 belt and made it the No. 2 belt. 

[All-Purpose Health and Fitness Thread]

Lol my bad.

In terms of upright rows, technically Sharty is correct - using an EZ bar will increase supination since the default is pronation and as far as the upright row targets the bicep, the inside head will be worked more.

I can't find any guides in terms of different muscle recruitment between the bars, though if I pretend I am doing the two movements I tend to think the emphasis is pushed more into the back of the delts (bearing in mind the delt is actually 7 sections ad not 3 as commonly modeled). 

I will say that personally I think most ppl are better off using the straight bar. Basically because a barbell offers infinite width positions whereas an ez-bar does not, it offers 2-3 with no fine adjustment. This is bad because the optimal thing to do is to line things up with your scapular and you can't do that on an ez-bar unless you...get lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejzZTFOnf0c&ab_channel=BaldOmni-Man

Also, because little equipment, or indeed technique, in a commercial gym setting is perfect, I just think the bar is likely to swing around more and when you are playing with an already questionable movement yeah I'm not into it. The video above shows a weightlifter doing stuff with big loads, but weightlifters are picky af about their barbells...mostly to protect their shoulder health...and obv he is using a straight-bar as is Paris.

 

 

 

[All-Purpose Health and Fitness Thread]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:17 PM, Shartnado said:

Well, EZ bar is supposed to give you the supination of the wrists, so that should work on the inside of the bicep more. From recent experience I can tell that the wide grip on a barbell definitely feels different, but I am not sure how it hits the bicep differently?

I'm not sure that's quite right?

So as per my understanding:

- ez-bar will involve less supination of the wrist, & arguably more of a natural position for the elbow. Said semi(ish)-neutral position will target outside bicep more, and the brachialis.
- a closer-grip will also emphasise the outside bicep more

But the bicep heads work together and it probably isn't too much to worry about. I am trying to squeeze a bit more bicep volume in and today I did ez-bar curls (wider-grip, forward-lean for extra stretch, drag-style 90 degree lengthened partials to be precise), erm 'flat preacher' cable-curls (so the upper arms are supported but not pointing downwards if that makes sense, straight handle medium-close grip), then 1 set of crucifix curls. I think that's probably a fairly even stimulus.

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

 I would hope you'd at least agree there needs to be a better defined hierarchy. 

Why?

I really think Christian benefits a lot from the TNT Title, and Cassidy the International Title. I mean, yeah I can sort of see why some wrestling fans would find more clearly defined structures psychologically more satisfying, but if you could go back 12 months and scrap a title....I'd be curious to see you justify that in practical terms.

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

Tbf the ROH & NJPW Strong TItles are literally being merged into the Continental Title so they're not regularly defended at present; they are effectively already retired.

Apart from those titles, I'm not sure which AEW Title people would really want to do without.

I mean admittedly they weren't always creating belts, but during the Attitude era they'd rarely be a week of TV without a title change of some sort. 

I don't think ROH needs a Women's TV Belt admittedly lol. I stand by what I said about weight classes, and I'd be happy to see two weight divisions. It wouldn't completely surprise me if they're setting up to scrap the TBS belt (if they leave WBD),  and do a Women's Continental Classic where they create another Triple Crown.
 

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

9 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I'm not just cherry picking this part of your post, I agree with much of the rest of it.  Firstly,  to address what I mean about their TV rights negotiations.  They need to see an increase and the future of the company is dependent on it and I think they can secure that increase but me saying that doesn't come out of thin air. Tony Khan has stated himself how important that is going to be because the company is not likely to be profitable without it. 

But on to the comment I highlighted,  I'm not sure what you mean by it.  I think it's a real issue.  These buildings they are running were selling out or near sell outs a couple of years ago and now they are doing sometimes a third or 40% of what the attendance was.  I expected some of the demand to wear off over time but that's why they needed to step things up creatively to keep that interest going.  Dynamite running large arenas in front of sometimes 2,000-3,000 fans is a bad look any way you slice it. 

Bad look = optical.

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

Lol. I already mentioned that you have some better points, but you go from there to 'it looks like a sinking ship' and 'AEW's immediate future depends on them getting a vastly improved tv deal' and 'where's the lie?'.

- Collision is obviously a bit of a disaster. Realistically it has gone from being an attempt at an 'AA' show to being a 'B' show - same as WWE Main Event when it first launched, same as Smackdown during the supershow era. It's happened more quickly, but ultimately 2 hours of TV on a Saturday night is going to be tough to sustain an audience for without a really good reason to watch and it went out the door with Punk. But fine, AEW could get rid of it - problem solved, broadly speaking.

- The wider attendance issue is somewhat of an issue but it's more optical than anything else.

- I personally think the Devil storyline has dragged on too long, but I agree that these are indicative of wider booking problems and wider talent issues. These should be sorted, but they are sortable.

But these are potentially fixable problems in the long-term and do not threaten the short-term viability of the company.

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

The problem is that you're being histrionic and it isn't conducive to a healthy, fruitful discussion about some of the better points you bring up. You need to calm down.

[All-Purpose Health and Fitness Thread]

To be honest, I don't really consider the abductor machine to be particularly fun but your mileage may vary!

I was back on the hip thrust machine for the first time in 6 months too. I like the machine because the axial loading is low to zero (weight is underneath you), but it is 'heavy in the short' which isn't completely ideal so we played with a further-out foot position and slow eccentrics with less weight and I think this helped improve the ROM though it did maybe push a lot of tension to the hamstrings. I think next time we may bring the feet in but raise them with plates.

I don't like Smith machine squats. I've tried before and again today. No they're not for me, at least with the straight up&down bar path. Tbh my gf's ankle mobility seems to have improved and I think we're going to try her on some heel elevated SSB squats on Thursday. 

When we next workout together it will be upper day and we'll be on the assisted pullup & dip machine, but we'll probably do glute pushdowns too.

I forgot my Fo8 straps, so tbh I probably will drop my SLDLs for the moment. What I may do is during the holiday period is play with some mixed-grip work and see how it goes, as ultimately I should probably move away from relying on straps.

As for my press, well my gf is elsewhere now doing family things so I may return to the gym and do arm day in 3 hours.

 

 

[All-Purpose Health and Fitness Thread]

A good hack squat machine is very useful. I'm still pretty useless at it tbh. They're better, or at least more versatile, if they have good set-up for reverse bands in my opinion.

I got flu 3 weeks ago, and then I was bronchial af. My upper days are fine, but I still don't really feel I'm back to 100% on lower stuff.

I am back in Hungary for 3 weeks or so. Yesterday I was back in my former old-school iron kingdom - I have not been recently on shorter visits bc there was another gym with a cheaper day rate & better aircon, but it's a bit limited in terms of space & equipment (though it has some good stuff). So yesterday I was back on a Cybex Eagle pin-loaded chest press I haven't used in circa 6 months and it feels so different to plate-loaded machines. But I actually got up to 275lbs for 5 (failed on 6th rep), which is one away from the full stack and a PR for this machine. I am thinking maybe I can do the stack in a couple of weeks, which would be fun but lol we'll see.

I'll be back to training with my gf mostly. She has been trying to lose weight but has plateaued at 70kg, so we're going to mini-bulk her to try and raise her metabolism - it's xmas anyway so why not? So probably we'll do more butt stuff on lower day tomorrow lol.

[AEW - DECEMBER 2023]

3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

 

They really need a big TV rights increase next year.  Their immediate future is dependent on that. 

I'm not really sure what basis there is for believing that. Tony Khan is going to be just fine.

I'm not going to pretend that I really love AEW right now, and WWE definitely got some wins. But nothing is forever. In a few months, Cody completes his story and the ppl remember that he's actually kind of annoying, and who knows what Roman Reigns will really do when he loses the belt? Rhea is over af but they don't really have any good way to book her, CM Punk.....will likely remain a decent special attraction, but the shine comes off in time, Gunther's run....also will end, and then what?

Not trying to be down on WWE, just pointing out that these things change over time. Strickland is going to work out as a main-eventer, Mox is still Mox, Ospreay is coming in, Hangman seems to be getting over again....I mean there are things I would do differently in AEW, but I think there's still a strong groundwork for the next 2-3 years bing built. 

[AEW TV - 11/15 - 11/21/2023 - Gears of War]

Ref made the decision to intervene on behalf of Roderick Strong so Andretti wins - of course, Strong could have bitched about it afterwards as per the above. But the reality is, you now arbitrarily get time to recover if the referee thinks you might be hurt off a move. Now either that is business exposing, or you have every heel clutching at their neck to avoid having the ref count the fall. Now, that is maybe where they go with this with Strong now but logically extrapolating you're basically not allowed to hurt your opponent *too* much. I'm not into it.

Where there's blood, I don't think it's quite as bad because yeah there's now a disincentive not to cut open your opponent which actually makes sense. But something like this should be a referee stoppage finish.

[All-Purpose Health and Fitness Thread]

We have a small cinema where I work, and they were showing Killers of the Flower Moon on Wednesday. I was considering the gym afterwards, but would have involved too much caffeine too late so I decided to sneak in beforehand - luckily my 16:00 got cancelled (actually I cancelled it, but it was a team decision and it was actually a coincidence I swear lol). I was in a bit of a hurry, but 3 & 4 sets respectively of 12 on the chest press and low row actually gave me doms the next day - I am definitely trying to try harder on these kinds of movements, more of a bodybuilder mentality. I actually then popped back into the office to deal with something that came up on Slack, then came back to the gym for some arm & shoulder work. Caffeine intake was useful for 3.5 hours of movie - excellent movie of course! 

Tbh Monday and Wednesday's workouts were very fatiguing, so I decided not to reattempt my 'focus' lifts (SLDL, Feet back hack squat, OHP) and instead do a volume day. This was the right decision; I'll just list it:

5x5  2" deficit speed pulls

3x8-10 wide-ish grip upright rows

3x16 flat bench flyes / 3x16 TRX inverted rows (Smith was unavailable for planned inverted rows so I improvised)

3x12 feet-fwd wide stance hack squat / 2x15 Kelso Shrugs / 2x20 Hammer Curls

2x16 Plate pullovers / 1x20 GHR

1x25 plate lateral raises (because I had a minute and couldn't face more GHRs)

-----------------------

Obviously, this is a bit of a full-body split - kind of 3 day heavy-light-medium. If I was to stay in this job I'd probably stick with this, but it is a contract and it may end early next year, and then tbh I'd probably try to split the volume between days if I wasn't working.

I am pretty fatigued this morning, but just had a load of coffee & am about to go for a roast dinner buffet so yay!

Generally this year I think I have worked hard & made some gains, but (getting into the recent controversy on Youtube Fitness) I think at my age even vaguely 'power-building' on SBD no longer feels like the way to go. I still like doing lifts, & will still do them - but in a more compartmentalized & specialised way...so no bench (I even dropped Incline) or barbell squats atm, bc I am doing SLDLs and OHP. 

[AEW TV - 11/15 - 11/21/2023 - Gears of War]

I'm going to be that guy. Andretti dropped Roddy on his head and the referee pulled Andretti off him - that's a win for Andretti. Shit happens, live with it - sometimes a finish won't go to plan, no big deal; count the fall or stop the match, and fix it afterwards.

[All-Purpose Health and Fitness Thread]

Gym people are the worst. Whoever broke one of the handles on the GHR machine ought to be sterilised for the good of mankind. Noone even uses it except me!

Ok, so been about 3 weeks since I posted. Last week for life reasons, I only had 2 lunchtime workouts scheduled.....and then I got a cold on Wednesday. And it's funny, Sam Sulek (lol) recently said something about a viral infection not stopping you from working out 'if you have that dog in you'. And yeah I do know what he's saying, & somehow someway I went in and did my Thursday workout, which was mostly stiff-legged deadlifts of all things, and felt great afterwards. And then on Friday I felt knackered grocery shopping. 

So I'm sort of experimenting with a technique I picked up from a 531 critique; Fazlifts 853. Video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEpNjc9nKwU&ab_channel=Fazlifts

So basically right now I'm doing this for 3 exercises, & for now this means 3 x 8 adding 2.5kg every time: stiff-legged deadlift (105kg today), overhead press (42.5kg), hack squat [low foot position, essentially emulating my narrow squat stance] (55 (+ 48kg for the carriage according to Reddit) - I suck at hack squat).

Last week, I actually just did the hack squat (& extra feet-fwd hack squats &  low row machine, plus hammer curls) on the Tuesday and the SLDs (& Chest Press, plus some cable arm work) Thursday.

The Friday before I did all 3, and the same again today - I also did the 2 sets of accessory feet-fwd hack squats, plus GHD (once I worked out how to jimmy the mechanism), plus 1 set of lat pulldowns (erm I don't seem to be getting on with those rn), & 2 sets of pushdowns. The feet fwd ones I can do for more reps (12s for my 8 rep weight on the primaries) but man they work the core a lot - I was borderline pukey by the end. I managed to get the ohp down to my chest today though, which I had been struggling with so I was very happy with that.

As per above, I seem to have tweaked something in or around my left lat. Vertical pulling feels bad, & is now off the table for at least a few weeks. I'll try some dead hangs maybe, get my gf to wield the massage gun. Partly for this reason I am using a slightly wider than optimal grip on my SLDs, going narrow seems to really activate the lats for me but if anything I'd rather load the traps anyway as I don't really like doing trap isolations very much.

I'll probably end up in a different gym in December with no hack squat, so I will probably rotate these out in favour of SSB squats. The OHP should obviously stall out quicker, though my current gym now has microplates so that opens up some possibilities (though tbh I am expecting them to get nicked even if it is an office gym). SLD should take a while to cycle through though, and I may decide to let it become a normal deadlift as the weight keeps going up.

Wednesday will be a much more hypertrophic-focussed workout, mostly upper body but maybe some leg extensions. I haven't flat-benched in weeks, and I'm not sure that will change. Probably Friday I'll try to do the SLDs, hack squat machine & OHP again with added weight.

45 tomorrow!

[AEW - NOVEMBER 2023]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:50 PM, zendragon said:

problem is most of the roster aren't much over 200lbs either. I what I could see is if we go back to having the TNT being the HOSSWEIGHT belt then you could have INT. Belt unofficially being the semi-X-division belt where you have the smaller men having fast paced high flying matches.

Been busy, but no I want ROH to have hard weight classes. No I don't think they need to be legit 100% of the time, but I don't see the size of ppl as a massive issue - ultimately the roster may need to evolve.

I think I would go with 4 men's divisions - 175 (welter), 195 (cruiser), 225ish (mid-heavy), above (super-heavy). Two classes for women, split at around 125-130lbs. Pure Rules *all* singles title matches.

Run a team title - 3-5 people, forever freebird-rule defends both in tags and 6-person.

You can love it or loathe it, but it would make ROH very distinct from AEW.

[AEW - NOVEMBER 2023]

1 hour ago, zendragon said:

I would say figure out what the hell ROH actually is and separate it from AEW (except for BOTB), I'm generally in favor of lots of titles instead of people fighting over shampoo or what ever.

This. Having lots of titles is the worst way to book, except for all of the others.

The thing is though, I don't think you can really see ROH as anything much than NXT for AEW - and the thing about NXT is that noone is really paying for it except live tickets for PLEs. I just don't see why you're going to pay for a sub-AEW when there's already 5 hours of AEW programming a week. I have no idea how you possibly square that circle. But the one thing that is hilarious to me is that the one belt they have that's unique is the Pure Title and Shibata barely defends it.

People will hate this idea, but ROH should just have weight classes and then you have differentiation. And hoss matches. I would just make all singles title matches pure rules tbh; it has never really stopped anyone wrestling their style that I've seen - except ppl who punch a lot maybe but who is that really thesedays except Orange Cassidy?

[2023 TV DISCUSSION THREAD]

And now off to the extended Billions universe..........with all the comebacks we've seen, I'm not convinced we've seen the last of Mike Prince. We might see him in Millions.

I did enjoy them finishing with Connerty doing the Hibachi gimmick again; nice, wholesome family ending. I'd say Chuck earned himself some dungeon time too lol.

To be fair, as much as I enjoyed Billions as a slightly guilty pleasure I am kind of happy GIamatti is free of it because he is a bit too good for it really. I look forward to seeing The Holdovers and I suspect his best work is to come, though they should also really find a way to bring back the Rhino to the MCU as well obviously.

 

 

 

[AEW - OCTOBER 2023]

It's going to depend on the individual. It's hard to imagine someone like Nick Comoroto is completely happy with his lot - otoh he's basically being paid to lift weights and that's kind of living the dream.

The truth is though that the WWE schedule is *nothing* like it used to be. Cody is on 80+ matches for the year, Seth a little below that. But generally it's 50-60 so far, often with many tags. The NXT guys generally work less, though they are being coached, no offence to anyone else, by some very top guys in an established system that AEW has clearly not duplicated. 

Point is, I am sure many of them would rather be working more dates - but it's not like they're having to work Sunglass Hut or anything.

[AEW - OCTOBER 2023]

Tbh I really feel like Wardlow is just another title defence at this point. Hobbs is the bigger long-term project, one of the guys who I might buy eventually going over MJF.