oh_tag

yeah, i'm kinda seeing that now. I feel like i'm banging my head against a table.

No--what we're saying if if you don't like what's being presented to you, don't watch. This is an option. Why on earth would anyone watch or keep up with a TV show they despise and causes them grief is beyond me. We don't listen to music we don't like or eat food that our tastebuds find unappealing. I get that some griping is part of the package, but this has become a bit much. There is other wrestling--Lucha Underground, NJPW, old matches on WWE Network. There are at least a dozen avenues for any wrestling fan to travel and find what they deem as quality viewing. So go find your avenue and be happy. There's nothing wrong with saying "This isn't for me--I'm out" and moving elsewhere. The problem is that WWE fans--all WWE fans at some point--think they have the power. We don't. We never have, we never will, and you have to determine how much of this you're going to enjoy knowing that. Personally, I can find entertainment in fantasy booking stuff in my head like the soap opera it is. Whether it's good or bad? I prefer good but bad can be entertaining. But that's me. If that's not you, that's cool. There are other alternatives. why do you keep saying "we" like the anti-smark thing is some collective hive mind? I very specifically replied to Gregg who summed it up as theater and pretty much said sit back and enjoy it. everything you said is completely unrelated to my reply to him. again, plenty of people have done that, and plenty more people probably will. saying that it's become a bit much is missing the point. you could probably apply to that to any point in wwe's history. the difference is that now, for the first time, it has finally gone beyond the just bitching for bitching's sake because the company is very, very obviously ignoring the desires of pretty much the entire fanbase in favour of something that isn't going to work and was never going to work, and they're also very actively trying to piss people off in doing so. Please, prove the hyperbole of "pretty much the entire fanbase" is shitting on this story, because we seem to be watching different shows the past couple weeks. you don't believe the reactions Bryan was getting for a year were the sign that the fanbase wanted him as Their Guy?

Well, if you've been actually watching and not hate watching, you'd actually see that they *are* telling that story, but ya'll are too busy bitching that its not Bryan in Reigns spot, and refuse to care. The story of the babyface that not many people actually like or want to see on top trying to get the belt off the awesome ass kicking, most entertaining guy in the company doesn't seem to be a story most people want to see. Goalpost moving. You asked "Who is Reigns and why should I care if he wins?" They are telling that story. Your interpertition that the majority of viewers doesn't like Reigns and that everyone loves Lesnar is clouding the truth that they're telling the story of "No one in the world gives Reigns a shot in hell of beating Lesnar, and he almost has to because right now Lesnar is possibly taking the belt and running away to UFC.". It's not rocket science. Crowd seems to be getting plenty in to Reigns, and we have no idea how the actual match is gonna be, outside of Lesnar rules, and Reigns has proven that he can connect the dots when someone lays it out for him. Goes to the main point of all this, people hate Reigns because he's not Bryan, period. no they don't. they hate him because he's just some random guy in that spot. did they hate him before he won the rumble? no. because he was in his place. the same way they don't hate tons of guys. if jimmy uso or xavier woods suddenly won next year's rumble, they'd be hated too. Yeah, no. Reigns was pretty cemented in this spot for a year. It is known. The problem came when Bryan came back from injury and entered the Rumble, then the Rumble was laid out about as bad as you could've possibly made it. Reigns was not random, ever. Your argument holds no water. The argument that an Uso or Woods would get shit on is concievable, but unprovable unless it was done, and cannot be decided in a vacuum. Try again. yes he is some random guy. random in that he's not good enough for the spot, not that he wasn't being prepped for it. that said, it was becoming obvious last summer (see the Orton match at summerslam, or the match on Raw with Rollins) that Reigns wasn't ready; in fact go back to the really awful match with Wyatt on Raw early last year, too. call it unprovable all you want, it's exactly what would happen. it's not a case of fans loving or hating certain guys no matter what, their position on the card will dictate that too. guys will gain fabases simply by winning matches and being put in strong positions. likewise, if they're not very good, other fans will shit on them if they think they're being positioned above their stations, ESPECIALLY if its at the expensive of guys they deem more deserving. it's not brain surgery. we can only base this on our own perceptions, so by all means consider it to be nothing but my opinion but even if Bryan hadn't returned, i don't believe Reigns going over in Philly would have went over that well. I think it's very possible he gets booed regardless. of course it wouldn't be as vociferous. But Bryan returning isn't irrelevant either. Yes people are upset that Reigns isn't Bryan, and that is worth considering. Why are they upset? Because a lot of people want Bryan to be the guy. But if Ambrose won the Rumble would they be as upset? Not nearly as much. It wouldn't change that so many want(ed) Bryan but it's easier to take when they actually like the other guy too. Do you think Ambrose or Ziggler would be getting the reactions Reigns is right now?

Thank you for insulting my attitude. Didn't know I had one. Thank you for telling me what I don't notice. Thank you for telling me what I want and how I want it. We ALL have the right to express our opinion. Not just you. Accept that not everyone agrees with you. That runs both ways. And now you can say we but I can't. That's quaint. So Vince McMahon broke your heart and made you lose your smile is what I'm getting from all this. i wasn't replying to someone else's reply to someone else with "we". and certainly not when it had nothing to do with what they said originally.. no, again, you seem to have the impression i'm a lot more invested in the company than i am. i'm much more invested in this debate, actually, than anything on tv right now. we do, and i gladly said to brysinner that we can agree to disagree on reigns earlier on (before it was obvious he was trolling). but some of this stuff is very obviously not opinion. please tell me exactly what it is we disagree on? that you think people just shouldn't watch and me saying they can't walk away? is that it? or do you really believe what's being presented is totally fine and people should accept that?

and yes, to some extent it is because he's not bryan. because the fanbase very vocally decided between 2012 and 2014 that Bryan was The Guy. The same way they did with Austin, and Rock, and Cena...

Well, if you've been actually watching and not hate watching, you'd actually see that they *are* telling that story, but ya'll are too busy bitching that its not Bryan in Reigns spot, and refuse to care. The story of the babyface that not many people actually like or want to see on top trying to get the belt off the awesome ass kicking, most entertaining guy in the company doesn't seem to be a story most people want to see. Goalpost moving. You asked "Who is Reigns and why should I care if he wins?" They are telling that story. Your interpertition that the majority of viewers doesn't like Reigns and that everyone loves Lesnar is clouding the truth that they're telling the story of "No one in the world gives Reigns a shot in hell of beating Lesnar, and he almost has to because right now Lesnar is possibly taking the belt and running away to UFC.". It's not rocket science. Crowd seems to be getting plenty in to Reigns, and we have no idea how the actual match is gonna be, outside of Lesnar rules, and Reigns has proven that he can connect the dots when someone lays it out for him. Goes to the main point of all this, people hate Reigns because he's not Bryan, period. no they don't. they hate him because he's just some random guy in that spot. did they hate him before he won the rumble? no. because he was in his place. the same way they don't hate tons of guys. if jimmy uso or xavier woods suddenly won next year's rumble, they'd be hated too.

No--what we're saying if if you don't like what's being presented to you, don't watch. This is an option. Why on earth would anyone watch or keep up with a TV show they despise and causes them grief is beyond me. We don't listen to music we don't like or eat food that our tastebuds find unappealing. I get that some griping is part of the package, but this has become a bit much. There is other wrestling--Lucha Underground, NJPW, old matches on WWE Network. There are at least a dozen avenues for any wrestling fan to travel and find what they deem as quality viewing. So go find your avenue and be happy. There's nothing wrong with saying "This isn't for me--I'm out" and moving elsewhere. The problem is that WWE fans--all WWE fans at some point--think they have the power. We don't. We never have, we never will, and you have to determine how much of this you're going to enjoy knowing that. Personally, I can find entertainment in fantasy booking stuff in my head like the soap opera it is. Whether it's good or bad? I prefer good but bad can be entertaining. But that's me. If that's not you, that's cool. There are other alternatives. why do you keep saying "we" like the anti-smark thing is some collective hive mind? I very specifically replied to Gregg who summed it up as theater and pretty much said sit back and enjoy it. everything you said is completely unrelated to my reply to him. again, plenty of people have done that, and plenty more people probably will. saying that it's become a bit much is missing the point. you could probably apply to that to any point in wwe's history. the difference is that now, for the first time, it has finally gone beyond the just bitching for bitching's sake because the company is very, very obviously ignoring the desires of pretty much the entire fanbase in favour of something that isn't going to work and was never going to work, and they're also very actively trying to piss people off in doing so.

well yeah, your attitude is exactly what the wwe wants right now. and hey, a lot of people have taken the route of not watching, in case you haven't noticed. i barely watch the show at all, unless i know there's something specifically that will interest me. i'm more interested in this sort of thing. but accept that people are going to watch. this argument has been done a thousand times. consider it an addiction. people just aren't going to walk away. they can't. think of it like following a sports team. you stick with them no matter what, even if they suck and you get so little pleasure from it. people have the same loyalty to wwe. they have the same loyalty to certain wrestlers. that's just how it is. vince probably wants them all to go away, though he would be losing a sizable chunk of his fanbase at this poin. you would finally get the utterly dead, apathetic crowds you so crave though. i mean, that happens anyway, but magnify that so much more. so people watch. still. in hope, in stupidity, maybe just for that one tiny moment like last year's wrestlemania. i WAS watching at the time and let me tell you, it felt like the years of garbage were worth it just for the conclusion. so what can you do? and if people do watch, and do go to the shows, and pay money, they have a right to express their opinion. it's not a new thing for fans to decide who their guy is. the thing that's different now is vince is so adamantly pushing back and sticking his fingers in his ears. i'm sure you've heard this argument before, but it's like ignoring austin in 97, or cena in 05, or having a WrestleMania17 main event of The Rock vs Test or something, with Austin fighting for the european title. you can say Bryan isn't at their level of popularity but that's because the whole show isn't as popular as it was. in terms of popularity within the roster, last year he was probably even more over than the rest of it than guys like Austin and Rock were to their rosters. at least you had guys like Foley and Taker then.

Because they don't like Reigns. What do you not get about that? You're basically saying "oh just play along" which is fine. But clearly the fans are at a point where they're pushing back and saying "actually, no, this is bullshit, we don't want this". If people trust the booking, they will go along for the ride. Look at NXT for a great example of that. No one complained about Sami Zayn losing the title instantly, or being beaten up straight after winning it because a) they like Owens too b ) they trust the booking, and c) they know sami will still be a featured player and it isn't part of some grand plan to push him aside for baron corbin. WWE fans don't trust the booking because why would they? So they boo the booking decisions because they see that Bryan is being pushed aside, that Reigns is the new guy, and isn't very good, and that for all your bigging up the angle last year, it wasn't part of some grand morality play that was meant to lead to Bryan's redemption, it was all a thrown together mess that was leading to Batista being the avenging hero until the fans said fuck that, all while Bryan was meant to be back in the midcard. There's no reason for the fans to trust the booking team to book "their" guy right because they constantly try to shove him out the way. But I will say this: did you hear any bitching or the air being let out of the arena when Bryan lost to Wyatt at the rumble last year? No. You could still feel the excitement in the air. The story was obvious - Bryan was going to lose to Wyatt (a then up and coming midcarder) and return to heroically win the Rumble. It was so obvious. So the fans were along for the ride. They weren't furious that Bryan lost. They knew it was all part of the story. Except that wasn't the story. So suddenly what was a piece of great booking was actually a case of being spat at in the face. So any and all trust in their booking was gone. And yet people were willing to go along for the ride again this year. But they did the exact same thing. THAT is why people aren't saying it's just theater so let's clap like monkeys. If it's good theater, they will. When it's a senile old man pissing in their faces they can either walk away or fight back.

Actually things would be better right now had they gone with Batista/Orton at Mania. Taker would most likely be 22-0, Bryan's injury wouldn't have caused a massive scramble. Reigns would have already beaten Lesnar. The main event for Mania would probably be Bryan vs. Reigns as it would've made sense to have Bryan get his shot at Orton (who would've been champion since Extreme Rules) at Fastlane. So yeah I would prefer the mirror universe where Batista/Orton happens at Mania instead of the On-Air Blowjob To Daniel Bryan and what a scramble that was, with cena basically just pretending to be daniel bryan for a month.

how very unique an opinion. I'm all for that too, to be honest, it would probably get him over even more and pretty much destroy whatever show it was happening at. But I guess when the show is so bad you have to find enjoyment in annoying other fans. This post right here is where you lose all credibility. You've asked us to give reasons/opinions why we see this a certain way. We give them to you in a rational, polite tone. Instead of agreeing to disagree, you go into 'you just want to annoy us, I hope everyone but my favorite fails, that'll show them!' mode. If you can't see the correlation between that mindset and why SOME of us find SOME Bryan fans irritating, then there's not much more to say on the topic. We won't see eye to eye, and it is what it is. Bryan is a cool guy, both in and out of the ring. But he's not the only one. But again, SOME of his fans have--IMO--become overinvested and are determined to avenge him in some grand fairytale where they slay the evil Vince McMahon and Authority when Bryan doesn't even seem to be avenging himself right now. Most of us like Bryan, appreciate him. But he's not the be all and end all for us. And that's OKAY. If that is unacceptable for some of you, then it just is. None of us are going to change our minds because the other is screaming "Change your mind!" Maybe some of us just enjoy the carny aspect of it all. What's wrong with that? No one is telling you or anyone else what to like. I would hope you extend the same courtesy to those who don't agree with you. dude, i was replying to a guy who said he hoped sheamus would beat bryan in 18 seconds again haha. where's your problem with that? clearly my post was in jest in reply to that; i don't think his was. but no, don't worry about credibility. there's things we're debating here that aren't even debatable, like the utterly asinine comment that Bryan is actually a heel, which is clearly just trolling or dumb, take your pick. you also seem to think i have a lot more invested in this than i do, so i'll be clear: i actually have more fun talking about this stuff than actually watching the show, which i rarely do these days, so don't mistake me posting a lot here for me being really stressed or upset by this. i find it interesting, and i find it interesting that so many people here are taking what, to me, seems like a very pro-roman reigns stance and anti-bryan stance. we can make all sorts of "if bryan/cena/reigns did this, imagine how everyone would have reacted" or switch people around or compare fanbases. i think the facts are simple: bryan is the most popular guy and is being treated like anything but. do you agree with that?

how very unique an opinion. I'm all for that too, to be honest, it would probably get him over even more and pretty much destroy whatever show it was happening at. But I guess when the show is so bad you have to find enjoyment in annoying other fans.

The angle, after the rumble, was how Bryan was left out of the match, yes. He interrupted Stephanie and Triple H the next night talking about he had came to them often saying how he wanted to be in the match but they said no, their argument being that they didn't want him wrestling twice. He then, correctly, pointed out that they had made him have 2 or 3 matches often in the last year. The idea was quite obviously that the authority had done a number on Bryan and didn't want him in the match. I know a lot of people on here like to play anti-smark but this is just absurd. It was clear why he was getting the shot once they were in damage-limitation mode.

what do you think "bryan fans" have complained about that is unreasonable then?

He spent a good portion of the past two Wrestlemania seasons trying to get a title shot he didn't earn. This year Reigns was gonna tell Hunter to fuck off until Bryan basically called him a coward. Bryan is a greedy sneaky heel. i know you're just trolling now but bryan quite clearly deserved the shot last year considering the storyline became how the authority specifically kept him out of the rumble, presumably out of fear of him winning it. this year he had no play on the shot, which is why the whole thing made both guys look so terrible and killed a lot of bryan's momentum - exactly as it was meant to do.